youtube.com/watch?v=k7Zwq9wIIF4 Read the comments.
The two big mistakes with the timeline were:
- Insisting that OOT and the 2D games occur in the same continuity.
- Insisting that the Four Swords and the non-Four Swords games occur in the same continuity after FSA got teatabled.
What they should have done is said that ALTTP/LA-LOZ/AOL is one continuity, SS, OOT, MM, TP, and the Toon Link games is another continuity, OOX and FS/FSA are standalone duologies, and TMC is a standalone game. They could have even embraced the Literal Legend theory a bit and said that the Seal War, OOT, and FSA are different legends about the sealing of Ganon. Assuming that there weren't any differences as a result of this decision, ALBW, TFH, and BOTW would all be standalone games.
Pretty much, yes. I agree. As much as I would like to keep them all in one continuity, there are wayy too many differences and contradictions, and not enough direct connections. The 3D games were pretty good at maintaining direct links with each other, being rooted in OoT. Each of those games can be directly traced back to OoT.
There’s pretty much no direct links between OoT and the classic 2D games. As far as I’m concerned, they’re separate continuities.
I like it could be a comprominse between the Literal Legend theory and the idea that the games are all connected. I would have put a note in HH that fans are free to try to connect the games.
In ALTTP, Sagehood is passed down through bloodliness and the Triforce grants anyone's wishes. In OOT, Sages are "awakened" and the Triforce splits.
What if OOT had radically diverged from the Seal War in some way such as having Link or the Sages kill Ganon at the end?
Is it just me or did A Link Between Worlds treat Ganon the way that the Mario RPG games treat Bowser?
I haven’t actually played the Mario RPG games, but I’m assuming Bowser takes a backseat to another villain?
One of the Maidens in ALTTP says, "Do you know the prophecy of the Great Cataclysm? This is the way I heard it... If a person with an evil heart gets the Triforce, a Hero is destined to appear...and he alone must face the person who unleashed the Great Cataclysm. If the evil one destroys the Hero, nothing can save the world from his wicked reign." I wonder if, ignoring all the games that have been made since, that suggests that heroes have defeated evil Triforce-wielders in the past.
I’d think so.
That would have been an interesting direction to take the series in.
I wonder what made them decide to set OOT in Ganon's days a human rather than making another game with Blue Pig Ganon (which presumably would take place either in between ALTTP and LOZ or after AOL).
I think the development of OoT started out with the intentions of depicting the Seal War, but turned into something different.
Human Ganondorf, I believe was a remnant of the original intent.
Interesting. With SS, the developers said, "the wiimote gave us oppertunities with the sword, so we wanted to make the Master Sword central to the game, so we made the game about the origin of the Master Sword." I wonder what made them decide developing OOT, "Let's depict the Seal War".
Maybe there's three "legends": ALTTP/LA-LOZ/AOL forms Legend A, SS-OOT(timeline split)-AT:TWW/PH-ST-CT:MM-TP forms Legend B, and TMC-FS/FSA forms "Legend C", with OOX, ALBW, TFH, and BOTW being standalone stories.
youtube.com/watch?v=poWsyG60WTw&feature=youtu.be&t=2357 Notice how similar Zelda's instructions are to what the Swamp Maiden tells Link in ALTTP?
I wonder why they didn't do any of the following:
1. Declare OOT a reboot when they made it.
2. Not have the Sacred Realm get corrupted in OOT because Ganondorf doesn't have the complete Triforce.
3. Give Ganondorf the complete Triforce in OOT.
Is it possible that before Aonuma entered the picture, Miyamoto saw the Zelda games as plays being performed on a stage like Super Mario Bros. 3?
Idk... Mario 3 quite clearly was a play, with a literal stage in the intro, complete with curtain. It also had bolted props and backdrops in the stages.
I’ve never seen any such thing in the Zelda series, but maybe I missed a few things. Is there a particular reason why you think it might be possible?
I just figured that Miyamoto might like the concept for all his creations, and the Japanese ALTTP box says that "the stage is set" long before the NES games.
forums.legendsalliance.com/top…her-oot-alttp-connection/ A theory from before TP was released.
I really, really wish this was true. It is like, the perfect explanation.
It really is. And with the Hero of Time being the only person on the Child Timeline to remember anything, the events of OOT could easily be misremembered as the Imprisoning War.
Or the Imprisoning War was an attempted jailbreak and the Ancient Sages cast the seal that ALTTP revolves around.
If you could reboot the Zelda series from scratch, are they any changes that you would make to the lore?
I don’t know if you saw my fan timeline in the Superior Canon Timeline thread, but I would do that.
Multiple Ganondorfs, that all trace their origins to a single “spirit”- let’s call him Ganon I.
I would have rewritten Demise as being Ganon I, and all subsequent Ganondorfs trace their origins to him.
Do you think that Ganondorf's followers who he fought with upon entering the Sacred Realm were Gerudo?
I don’t know. In, Ocarina of Time (English version, I don’t have Japanese direct translations), there are references to Ganondorf’s “men”, so Ganondorf could have had other followers besides the Gerudo.
You posted, "I don't know. In OOT (English version)" but didn't right anything more
I edited the post
Sorry, using the site on my phone, it looks a little different, so apologies for any mistakes I make
I found that interesting too. I've speculated that they're Hylians who joined Ganondorf in hopes of him sharing the Triforce with them.
I wonder if before Miyamoto upended the teatable, FSA was supposed to end with the Four Sword inside the Pyramid of Power.
I wonder: If Miyamto didn't upend the teatable with FSA, would the DT games be on the CT or would the Hero of Time's failure cause FSA to happen?
I wonder if C. Everett Koop was a Dodongo.
Something I noticed is that the ALTTP manual implies that the entrance to the Sacred Realm that Ganondorf entered through and that was sealed in the Imprisoning War is far away from Hyrule.
Between Miyamoto upending the teatable on FSA and the removal of the dialogue connecting ALBW to ALTTP, I'm beginning to wonder if Miyamoto hated ALTTP and doesn't want it to be canon or to be referenced by other games.
I think the issue with ALttP, is that it doesn’t fit the current theme that the producers of Zelda established in OoT: particularly, that Link, Zelda, and Ganon each have a unique relationship with each of the three Triforce pieces.
ALBW backstory seems to be an attempt to do something similar to a retcon of ALttP that forces it to follow that theme.
As for the upending of the tea table, I think Aonuma’s explanation makes sense; Miyamoto didn’t want to complicate the story for the player, particularly new players.
It was quite clearly supposed to be the backstory to ALttP, but those who hadn’t played ALttP might be thrown off by references to the game.
They did a similar thing with ALBW, when they removed all direct references to the story of ALttP (particularly, a direct reference to Agahnim and his role in bringing back Ganon)
Yet Miyamoto was ok with all the references to OOT in MM and TWW, the references to TWW in TPH, and the references to TWW and TPH in ST.
Bowser, like Ganon(dorf), is a "Great Demon King" in Japan. I wonder if Bowser was once human.
Interesting thought, might explain his feelings for Princess Peach, despite the biological differences.
I think the NES manual for Super Mario Bros. says he’s part of the turtle-like Koopa race.
But don’t quote me on that, it’s been years since I read it.
But imo, I think “Great Demon King” is one of those generic Japanese titles, like “Kaiju”, which roughly translates to “Giant Monster” or “Strange Beast”, or something like that. Basically, being the “Great Demon King” is like saying you’re the “Big Bad”. The “evil villain”.
"Bowserdorf" is an amusing thought. I do agree with you on the title, "Great Demon King."
Here's an article on Demon Tribes and Demon Kings: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazoku
The Legend of Leia:
Adventure of Luke
A Luke to the Past
It seems to me that OOT is true to the spirit of the Imprisoning War but not to the letter of the Imprisoning War while HH is true to the letter of the Imprisoning War but not to the spirit of the Imprisoning War.
Do you think Adventure of Link should get the Zero Mission treatment?
Same. Update the graphics, elaborate on the story, new translation, hearts instead of health bars, more reasonable difficulty, etc.
What do you think Ganondorf was doing during the Fierce War?
In my junior year of high school, I made friends with a girl who shares my love of Zelda. She's been my best friend ever since.
Well that’s great!
Thanks. We have deep discussions about the characters, their motives, the timeline, who's descended from who, etc.
I noticed that the ALTTP manual never says whether or not Ganondorf was actively looking for the Sacred Realm before he and his followers stumbled upon it.
Before I got into timeline theorizing, I thought that Ganon only had the Triforce of Power in ALTTP. I always assumed that the references to him having the Triforce in ALTTP referred exclusively to the Triforce of Power because OOT was the first game I played and that was the case in OOT.
It would make the lore much more easier to digest if they did that. I mean, he might as well have just possessed the ToP; clearly having the whole thing wasn’t any more help
So true. It's definitely something that I'd like to see in a remake.
I wonder if having the Triforce split in OOT rather than Ganondorf having the complete Triforce is where things began to go wrong. The TOP in OOT behaves more like the complete Triforce in ALTTP than it does like the TOP in LOZ.
It's been so long since SS was released, and my life has changed so much since then, but I still like Zelda.
I'll always be a Zelda fan. I've been a fan since the very first game for the NES.
Me too. I've made so many friends through Zelda, put so many hours into it.
Yep me too. I just realized that I'm coming up on my 10th year anniversary on ZU. I've been on here since December 2007.
BOTW is almost here!
Yeah, I'm trying to avoid spoilers but it doesn't appear to be possible for me lol. I won't be able to get the game for at least a few weeks after it's release, due to me working on a cruise ship, so that makes it extra hard.
I'm not trying to avoid spoilers. I love contemplating and discussing the plots.
Yeah me too, though I wish I could resist doing that until the game releases. I've already been through a ton of spoilers already, like major spoilers.
The ALTTP manual says, "Black clouds permanently darkened the sky, and many disasters beset Hyrule." In OOT, we see exactly that.
If Batreaux is the ancestor of the Gerudo, I like the idea that Batreaux rejected his demonic origins while Ganondorf embraced his demonic heritage.
Do you think the Imprisoning War caused the development of the River Zoras? Maybe Ganon's malice corrupted them or corrupted others and they turned hostile in response?
Yes and no. Yes, I believe they became hostile due to the Imprisoning War or it's aftermath. No, I don't think they're corrupted, but they are just extremely territorial. They somehow began to feel threatened, quite possibly because greedy people encroached on their lands in search of the Golden Land/Sacred Realm.
Consider the California gold rush in the 1800s where American men took over western Native American territories in search of gold, or how the poaching industry became huge and American men took over their territories to hunt animals.
As you could imagine, the Natives weren't very happy about that. Many of them became hostile to any and everyone who came near their lands, even people that didn't mean any harm.
I'm currently not sure whether or not the River Zora evolved from the Sea Zora, or if they've always existed together. FSA has them, so that kinda makes me think that they've always been around, but we only see them in the 2d games. But, I don't know...