happy b-day. hope you have a Big One.
Hylia, Fi, and Demise himself confirm that the war with him happened- it's kind of what touched off SS in the first place, so yes, there's [I]ample[/I] evidence for it. Two lines of dialogue, meanwhile, are nowhere near as reliable- the first is from Zelda before she got her memories back, and thus is merely a retelling of the legend as the Skyloftians tell it; and the other, which also mentions Fi's creation, is again almost certainly referring to SS Link directly, [I]as Fi was created to help him, and calls him her master[/I].
The Surface and the war with Demise, meanwhile, were indeed regarded as legend by the people of Skyloft, but we know the Surface exists and we know the war occurred, thus establishing that those legends- as with most- are based in fact. And someone, in the distant past, must have spread those facts in order for the subsequent legends to form.
As to the timeline split, it actually has basis in the series itself. The Hero of Time is sent back to his childhood at the end of OoT, and then warns Zelda of Ganon's plot. This alters the past and subsequently leads to a new future- thus creating a paradox. With Zelda warned of Ganon's plot, the latter never comes to fruition and he never takes over Hyrule- but only after he did take over Hyrule was the Hero of Time sent back and able to warn Zelda. Thus, the timeline is split, leaving us with the Adult timeline (which, according to your logic, shouldn't exist or should otherwise have a different past, neither of which are true) and the Child timeline. This pretty well mirrors the situation in SS- if Demise were defeated in the past, SS would never take place; but only once SS takes place is Demise defeated in the past. Put another way, Demise sat underground and became the Imprisoned, who was then fought three times; but if Demise were defeated in the past, he never would've become the Imprisoned and never would've been fought in that form; but only once he had been fought in that form was he defeated in the past. Again, a time paradox. And if a time paradox caused a timeline split at one point, why would it not cause a split in another? The only real sticking point is the Master Sword existing in both timelines, and there's a fairly easy way to explain that.
I decided to move this to messaging, so as to get the original thread back on track. Anyway...
[QUOTE=Big One;5443665]But it isn't hypothetical. Matter of fact none of the legends spoken of in the series, thus far, have been hypothetical. The text in Skyward Sword specifically says that there was a chosen hero in the past, before Link. That's a fact. It's a legend, but that doesn't make it any less true.[/QUOTE]
But again, we never [I]see[/I] this preceding hero in any canon material, and Demise's lack of knowledge about this supposed hero calls his existence into question. For that matter, [I]Zelda[/I] doesn't even mention him again after the Wing Ceremony- when she later tells SS Link about the war with Demise, she makes no mention of another hero, merely stating that she (i.e. Hylia) fought and sealed Demise. If there was a previous hero, why would both Demise [I]and[/I] Hylia not mention him? Yes, to be fair, these omissions aren't ironclad proof that he never existed, but if he did exist, why the omissions?
[QUOTE]you have no evidence that Impa spread this legend around. How would she when she was on the ground for nearly a century? She doesn't have any communication to Skyloft during this time whatsoever.[/QUOTE]
And do [I]you[/I] have any evidence of that? Again, there was a gap of anywhere between a few centuries to millenia between the pre-SS era and SS itself- can we really be positive that at no point, in any of that time, there was no communication between the Surface and Sky? Certainly, there was no communication for the [I]bulk[/I] of that time, but [I]someone[/I] had to tell the original Skyloftians that the war was over. If Impa herself didn't do it, Hylia certainly could have. It's not exactly a stretch from there to suggest that some details of SS Link were then dropped, and were subsequently corrupted by the oral tradition.
[QUOTE]It DOES change, though. Demise was defeated in the past, not sealed. Therefor, any of the events that happened in Skyward Sword, did not occur. It's suggested that the future was changed, because the Master Sword that Link put in the pedestal was still there in the future like it was in the past. Basically Link rewrote history, rather than splitting off into another timeline.[/QUOTE]
Except Demise [I]was[/I] sealed in the present in SS, as clearly evidenced by the fights with the Imprisoned (the form Demise took after being [I]sealed[/I]). Yes, if Link defeated Demise in the past, SS would never take place- but only once SS took place was Demise defeated in the past. This is a time paradox, and it would thus trigger a timeline split. The results are what I call the "Sound" and "Unsound" timelines. The Sound timeline is when Demise remained sealed in the past, and was subsequently fought in the present and eradicated with the Triforce, which then leads to the rest of the current chronology. The Unsound timeline is when Demise was defeated in the past, and thus SS and the rest of the chronology never took place, and a new, as-yet unseen chronology unfolded instead. As for why the Master Sword exists in both of these timelines, it was replicated through quantum teleportation- a highly unlikely event, but a possible one.
When I visited your page and saw Pinecove and Beemnorv in your VMs, I almost cried
Ahhh... the good ol' days of timeline theorizing... at any rate, I'm always glad to see a veteran theorist pop up from time to time!
Hey dude, just letting you know my little brother's on ZU now.
Not back yet. Just started playing Skyward Sword today. Lots of stuff going on in my life, so I most likely won't be back until around Christmas, but I should have a big article by then. Hope theorizing is alright without me.
Tell me SS spoilers now!!!
This is probably a stupid question, but how did you get a copy of SS before the release date if you live in the US?
So yeah. I was visiting [url="http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/general-chit-chat/135171-when-you-first-joined-zu-in-comparison-to-how-you-are-now-2.html#post4341061"]this thread[/url] and it reminded me about [url="http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/entertainment/68482-psp-substitute-for-zelda.html"]this thread[/url].
I have to admit, at the time I didn't get the joke lol.
I just wanted to say that I love your avatar picture.
I would like to point you out to this thread.
I never realised you were on GAF...
Yeah, but then the entire argument will re-surface in like half a year.
I've been having exams, auditions and other stuff up the ying yang. I will respond to your post, but I have a bunch of other stuff to prepare for so it's not quite at the top of my "to do" list. You'll have a response by Sunday or so.
Also remind me, are we discussing TMC's place in the timeline in that thread anymore, or just localization and the Power of the Spirits? It's been so long.
Pinecove is probably away for the same reason I've been away for a while. It's the end of June.
I have no idea where Lex went though. He went to E3 and played the SS demo, but that's all I know. He just pops in at ZI every once in a while.
Dude, do you ever plan to reply to myself and Lex in your TMC thread?
No worries. I'm a patient person, so if you can't respond for a long time, I can wait for a long time.
It's not like I'm crazy about arguing with people anyway.
Just to let you know, I'm not done with the debate in the "force" thread, but university work is killing me at the moment. You'll probably get a proper response sometime on the weekend.
Enjoy that stick up your ass. :F
Was being sarcastic.
But yeah, it's interesting thinking about what the continents we know today were like all that time ago before humans even existed.
[QUOTE]Reading the first ten pages doesn't justify hating on 600+ worth of material, so shut the **** up.[/QUOTE]
Please try to be a little less antagonistic. Post like that again, and I there will be no more warnings, thank you.
Want to go green with your letter opener?
Nice! Guts! haha i rarely see That face anywere I love Berserk..I wish i could buy the Mangas
Thanks for posting that picture. Know it isn't yours, but damn its awesome.
Now that I remember, you were my first friend on ZU. Nickname used to be Exidid. Hello!
Have you ever read manga stories by Tatsumi Yoshihiro? I've read a couple in a book called The Push Man, and I'm curious if all of his stories are drama (the ones I read were very interesting, although a little brutal/harsh).
Hey "Big One" XD Just clicked onto your profile, and I have to say, I am amused that you took Mr. Nobody's face as your profile picture.
I didn't see your post in your thread until today, but I think I'm going to drop the discussion. It's quite obvious that we're both solidified in our views and aren't going to change anything anytime soon.
I'm not saying TRR isn't Canon though.
Alright, fair enough.