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    Temple of Time
    • NayrusLove wrote:

      I have 2 opinions on this:

      1.) It was simply abandoned. Even in OoT, the temple is the most quiet place in the castle town with the exception of stray dogs roaming there at night. The lack of physical human life regarding maintenance of the temple explains the environment and ample plant life thriving within. The temple was never forgotten and was still considered an unbelievably important monument to Hyrule's history, so something or someone planted 2 non-human, fully physically capable guards there to protect the temple. Only a select few individuals were ever deemed worthy of having true use of the temple, most notably Link, so the appearance and abandonment was the least of anyone's concerns if they remembered the legend.

      2.) Chaos or war broke out, causing immense damage to the temple's structure. In a panic, something or someone, as said before, planted 2 fully capable guards within to protect the temple from unworthy, future invaders.
      I agree with opinion 1, but as you know the main halls are very different. In OoT the main hall has spiritual stone altar, but in TP it's nowhere to be found.

      As you can see in these pictures you notice that TP's temple is missing the altar and the door.
    • ZeldaXXCoffee wrote:

      I agree with opinion 1, but as you know the main halls are very different. In OoT the main hall has spiritual stone altar, but in TP it's nowhere to be found.

      As you can see in these pictures you notice that TP's temple is missing the altar and the door.
      I've always believed that the Temple of Time you explore is the one during OOT, while OOT Link is off doing whatever he's doing, mainly because the Master Sword isn't there at the time you go there. I think the reason the main halls are different, is because both games are made in different styles. But that is just pure speculation.
      :moon:
      "A puppet that can no longer be used is mere garbage. This puppet's role has just ended..." -Majora

      "A puppy can be fused with garbage. This puppy's role has just ended."
      :moon:
    • Nonoctoro wrote:

      @ZeldaXXCoffee That's why I think that the Temple was destroyed twice between MM and TP.

      The first time by Ganondorf and … I have no ideas for the second time …

      Maybe it's the reason of the mysterious death of the Hero's Shade ? From the hands of an enemy other than Ganondorf ...
      Well what I have read it has been speculated that the Hero's Shade is actually the Link from OoT.
    • ZeldaXXCoffee wrote:

      Nonoctoro wrote:

      @ZeldaXXCoffee That's why I think that the Temple was destroyed twice between MM and TP.

      The first time by Ganondorf and … I have no ideas for the second time …

      Maybe it's the reason of the mysterious death of the Hero's Shade ? From the hands of an enemy other than Ganondorf ...
      Well what I have read it has been speculated that the Hero's Shade is actually the Link from OoT.
      + Navi disappeared into that Window that's in the same room where the master sword lies. Someone believed that the "Temple of Time" aka the home of Dominion Rod in TP is the place where Navi disappeared, because that temple is located behind the window. There are also symbols of light medallion scattered everywhere, so someone believes that it's in fact the
      Temple of Light. I agree with this one because all we saw in OoT was Chamber of Sages.
    • Fal Cie wrote:

      @TriforceHolder I can agree with your stance of the Ganondorf conflict being drawn out, but there’s no way the spirit temple became the Arbiters Grounds.
      Arbiters grounds was made when the Twilight were imprisoned pre-OoT.
      Then why is Arbiter's Grounds filled with statues of the Goddess of the Sand? It's possible that the Mirror of Twilight was moved after the Gerudo/Hylian War from wherever it was stored previously because the Gerudo desert now empty was so remote and the Spirit Temple so well guarded that the mirror would be safe there. Afterall when we see the Twili struck down in Lanayru's flashback they are standing on green land not desert.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • TriforceHolder wrote:

      Then why is Arbiter's Grounds filled with statues of the Goddess of the Sand? It's possible that the Mirror of Twilight was moved after the Gerudo/Hylian War from wherever it was stored previously because the Gerudo desert now empty was so remote and the Spirit Temple so well guarded that the mirror would be safe there. Afterall when we see the Twili struck down in Lanayru's flashback they are standing on green land not desert.
      If it was formerly the Spirit Temple why would they keep any Sand Goddess statues? Let alone make the mechanism at the top into the shape of the goddess?
      The flashback is not an accurate portrayal of the events. It's more likely that the Gerudo were trusted with guarding the grounds when it was first built, allowing it to be decorated in their style.

      Just consider what you're proposing. The entire mountain the spirit temple is built into would have to be leveled with a colosseum structure built on top of it. Within a few years of Ganondorf being captured. And why would the Sages bring the Twilight Mirror there beforehand for an execution? More likely it was already there and they decided to make quick use of it.

      @Nonoctoro The enemies inside the Temple of Time may have been placed there by the builders to serve as obstacles to the Dominion Rod, much like the enemies inside the Skykeep or in the Great Temple of AoL.
    • It's a bit ridiculous to think that the Gerudo would be trusted with anything. Even before Ganondorf was exposed they were known as a tribe of bandits and thieves. That's a terrible plan to trust that lot with a mirror capable of access an underworld populated by a tribe of powerful spellcasters whose magic by nature warps the fabric of your world. The Mirror would be more secure with literally anyone else.

      Maybe the Gerudo stronghold was taken quickly during the war because Ganondorf sent most of his troops against Hyrule leaving it virtually undefended. As the war stretched on the natural terrain made the occupied area very easily dependable and so the Hylians began using it to hold Ganondorf's most dangerous lieutenants. When the war threatened to move into the area of the mirror's current resting place it was relocated to the occupied Gerudo lands to keep it safe.

      If you look at the Arbiter's grounds it is surrounded by vast cliff faces that could easily be the remains the Spirit Temple mountain. If some sort of arcane nuke was used against the Gerudo that caused the top half of the temple to collapse it is completely feasible that it would be reconstructed (with most of the interior structure and archetecture remaining the same, to the form we see it in as the Arbiter's Grounds. After all the Coliseum aspect looks significantly more germanic (the medieval style Hyrule is based on) compared to the more egyptian aspects of the rest of the grounds.

      It's conceivable that Hyrule would put the effort into reconstruction because despite it being a Gerudo stronghold it was also a temple of the sages and sacred to the Hylians in its own right. Not to mention an easily defensible position, especially with the guard towers that were added out front.

      So either the Gerudo built and ran the prison camp housing Hylian magical artifacts, where by all indications they themselves were slaughtered, or it was a Gerudo structure that was captured and repurposed during the war. Which makes more sense?

      As a side question: If the Gerudo were in charge of the Mirror during OoT why did Ganondorf never try to use it in any form?
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • TriforceHolder wrote:

      It's a bit ridiculous to think that the Gerudo would be trusted with anything. Even before Ganondorf was exposed they were known as a tribe of bandits and thieves. That's a terrible plan to trust that lot with a mirror capable of access an underworld populated by a tribe of powerful spellcasters whose magic by nature warps the fabric of your world. The Mirror would be more secure with literally anyone else.
      This is in the ancient past, when the Twili first attacked. The Gerudo were also trusted with guarding one of the temples connected to the sacred realm, they didn't always have a bad reputation. Them being trusted with operating a prison in a remote area of their region would make sense.
      Besides the Mirror of Twili has snakes in it's design, wouldn't that make you think it was also connected to the Gerudo?

      Maybe the Gerudo stronghold was taken quickly during the war because Ganondorf sent most of his troops against Hyrule leaving it virtually undefended. As the war stretched on the natural terrain made the occupied area very easily dependable and so the Hylians began using it to hold Ganondorf's most dangerous lieutenants. When the war threatened to move into the area of the mirror's current resting place it was relocated to the occupied Gerudo lands to keep it safe.
      After all the Coliseum aspect looks significantly more germanic (the medieval style Hyrule is based on) compared to the more egyptian aspects of the rest of the grounds.
      It's conceivable that Hyrule would put the effort into reconstruction because despite it being a Gerudo stronghold it was also a temple of the sages and sacred to the Hylians in its own right. Not to mention an easily defensible position, especially with the guard towers that were added out front.
      So either the Gerudo built and ran the prison camp housing Hylian magical artifacts, where by all indications they themselves were slaughtered, or it was a Gerudo structure that was captured and repurposed during the war. Which makes more sense?

      Building such a structure in former enemy territory out in the middle of nowhere, in the midst of a war sounds like a horrifically difficult and lengthy task.
      The only reason you've given to think the two are the same are the presence of the sand goddess statues, which could easily be included in any building of Gerudo association. Not the Spirit Temple alone.


      If you look at the Arbiter's grounds it is surrounded by vast cliff faces that could easily be the remains the Spirit Temple mountain. If some sort of arcane nuke was used against the Gerudo that caused the top half of the temple to collapse it is completely feasible that it would be reconstructed (with most of the interior structure and archetecture remaining the same, to the form we see it in as the Arbiter's Grounds.
      An arcane nuke? Have you been given any reason to think such a thing exists? That it was used against the arbiters rounds? Of who would use it? Of why they would use it?

      As a side question: If the Gerudo were in charge of the Mirror during OoT why did Ganondorf never try to use it in any form?
      The sages were trusted with it since it's first use against the Twili, he wouldn't be able to take it from them without greater power.
    • Fal Cie wrote:

      This is in the ancient past, when the Twili first attacked. The Gerudo were also trusted with guarding one of the temples connected to the Sacred Realm, they didn't always have a bad reputation. Them being trusted with operating a prison in a remote area of their region would make sense. Besides the Mirror of Twili has snakes in it's design, wouldn't that make you think it was also connected to the Gerudo?

      Snakes are a fairly generic marker as far as symbols go. It could just as easily be a link to the Twili themselves, perhaps to there shapeshifting powers (as snakes are kind of the go to animal for that) or the type of shadow demons they could become using the full Fused Shadow. The Gerudo weren't trusted with the Sages' Temple. They occupied it. There is a difference. They decorated it with a (to the Hylians) false god, doesn't seem as though that was a Hyrule sanctioned operation. It's more likely that the Temple being so much further outside mainstay Hyrule fell into disuse as pilgrims were few and far between and so when the Gerudo were banished they occupied it for a number of years, gradually altering it to suit themselves until we have the Spirit Temple of OoT. Besides which the Gerudo as far as we can tell didn't exist during the Interloper War. By there very nature they can't be a natural biological race, they're unsustainable in that regard. We see no trace of them on the timeline till OoT so whatever created their circumstances must have happened between Four Swords and OoT.

      Come to that maybe the Mirror was in the Spirit Temple the entire time. It was said to have been left in the care of the Sages by the Goddesses after the Light Spirits banished the Interlopers. Wouldn't it make sense to hide such a dangerous artefact in the most remote of the Sages' Temples? In the intervening years between it's enshrinement and the Gerudo occupation of the Temple it could have become lost. A passage collapsed leaving its room undiscovered for years. Then when the Hylians do such massive damage to the structure the Mirror is discovered in the wreckage and since transporting such a thing during war times would be a terrible idea it was instead reenshrined in the now occupied Spirit Temple and used on the worst P.O.Ws

      Fal Cie wrote:

      Building such a structure in former enemy territory out in the middle of nowhere, in the midst of a war sounds like a horrifically difficult and lengthy task. The only reason you've given to think the two are the same are the presence of the sand goddess statues, which could easily be included in any building of Gerudo association. Not the Spirit Temple alone.

      Not necessarily. Assuming only the top section collapsed the majority of the temple would remain in tact to be used as a foundation leaving the Hylians to clear debris, fortify the immediate area and then reconstruct the topmost portion which from the photos appears to comprise the Mirror Chamber and Arbiter's resting place, nothing more. Given that the Grounds are all made of the same stone despite having different design styles between the top and lower levels it can be assumed they used materials native to the Gerudo desert so the only resources being spent would be man power. Given they would need to occupy the area anyways to ensure that the Gerudo didn't return, building up a defensible position would be a good decision. Especially if the Gerudo hadn't been completely ousted from the desert and the Temple could be used as a staging ground for attacks on other Gerudo locations in the area.

      Fal Cie wrote:

      An arcane nuke? Have you been given any reason to think such a thing exists? That it was used against the Arbiter's Grounds? Of who would use it? Of why they would use it?



      As to why, the Spirit Temple would be the Gerudo's most hardy and populated stronghold. Destroying it would cripple their war effort, not to mention what it would do to morale.

      Fal Cie wrote:

      The sages were trusted with it since it's first use against the Twili, he wouldn't be able to take it from them without greater power.

      The Sages in the child timeline were all dead leaving the new ones to be called who had no experience working together and in fact one of whom was Gerudo. Besides which the sages power would be considered a valuable asset in war and squandering all six (or possibly five) of your (as far as we've seen in that time period) only magic casters on defending one target (and a non primary target at that) would be a horrific misuse of resources.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by TriforceHolder ().

    • TriforceHolder wrote:

      Snakes are a fairly generic marker as far as symbols go. It could just as easily be a link to the Twili themselves, perhaps to there shapeshifting powers (as snakes are kind of the go to animal for that) or the type of shadow demons they could become using the full Fused Shadow. The Gerudo weren't trusted with the Sages' Temple. They occupied it. There is a difference. They decorated it with a (to the Hylians) false god, doesn't seem as though that was a Hyrule sanctioned operation. It's more likely that the Temple being so much further outside mainstay Hyrule fell into disuse as pilgrims were few and far between and so when the Gerudo were banished they occupied it for a number of years, gradually altering it to suit themselves until we have the Spirit Temple of OoT. Besides which the Gerudo as far as we can tell didn't exist during the Interloper War. By there very nature they can't be a natural biological race, they're unsustainable in that regard. We see no trace of them on the timeline till OoT so whatever created their circumstances must have happened between Four Swords and OoT.

      Come to that maybe the Mirror was in the Spirit Temple the entire time. It was said to have been left in the care of the Sages by the Goddesses after the Light Spirits banished the Interlopers. Wouldn't it make sense to hide such a dangerous artefact in the most remote of the Sages' Temples? In the intervening years between it's enshrinement and the Gerudo occupation of the Temple it could have become lost. A passage collapsed leaving its room undiscovered for years. Then when the Hylians do such massive damage to the structure the Mirror is discovered in the wreckage and since transporting such a thing during war times would be a terrible idea it was instead reenshrined in the now occupied Spirit Temple and used on the worst P.O.Ws

      Granted there is nothing specific linking snakes and Gerudo, and the same snake design is on the Fused Shadow come to think of it.

      There is nothing to indicate that the decoration of the Spirit Temple clashes with the intended use of worshiping the elemental spirits of each region and guarding each entrance to the Sacred Realm.
      Being utterly nitpicky I would say the statue inside the temple was included by the Hylians, since it has a mechanism activated by Zeldas Lullaby on one of its hands.


      Not necessarily. Assuming only the top section collapsed the majority of the temple would remain in tact to be used as a foundation leaving the Hylians to clear debris, fortify the immediate area and then reconstruct the topmost portion which from the photos appears to comprise the Mirror Chamber and Arbiter's resting place, nothing more. Given that the Grounds are all made of the same stone despite having different design styles between the top and lower levels it can be assumed they used materials native to the Gerudo desert so the only resources being spent would be man power. Given they would need to occupy the area anyways to ensure that the Gerudo didn't return, building up a defensible position would be a good decision. Especially if the Gerudo hadn't been completely ousted from the desert and the Temple could be used as a staging ground for attacks on other Gerudo locations in the area.
      You mean the top section that has the giant statue of the Goddess of Sand?
      Why would they include that if the Gerudo were not meant to return or be involved as you say?
      The Gerudo script can be found all over the arena you find Stallord in so it can be demonstrated that they had a hand in designing that section of the prison.



      As to why, the Spirit Temple would be the Gerudo's most hardy and populated stronghold. Destroying it would cripple their war effort, not to mention what it would do to morale.
      That's either the Triforce or the power of Hylia at work, one of which is unusable during the time in question, the other only usable by the royal family. On top of which it's only been shown destroying malice, leaving ordinary physical structures intact, the temple would be in one piece were it used. See the memory of Zelda first using it.
      Furthermore the temple is remote and lacking in

      The Sages in the child timeline were all dead leaving the new ones to be called who had no experience working together and in fact one of whom was Gerudo. Besides which the sages power would be considered a valuable asset in war and squandering all six (or possibly five) of your (as far as we've seen in that time period) only magic casters on defending one target (and a non primary target at that) would be a horrific misuse of resources.
      Wrong way around, the sages would have died in the adult timeline once Ganondorf came into power, they'd still be alive and uninterrupted in the child timeline. Rauru certainly would be guarding it from ancient times.

      I feel this is a topic worth continuing in its own thread rather than distracting from the ToT discussion. I'll create one now.
    • Who is this guy ?

      This one special Darknut from the Temple of Time …

      Darknuts are corrupted Knights, surely related to the Knights of Hyrule, who work as mercenaries within Ganon's army.


      The Lizalfoses are also part of Ganon's mercenaries and those guys were also within the Temple of Time … were they working Under the Darknut ? but how... How did they get there in the first place ?

      I think that understanding those guys is understanding what caused the downfall of the Temple of Time.

      Fal Cie wrote:

      The enemies inside the Temple of Time may have been placed there by the builders to serve as obstacles to the Dominion Rod, much like the enemies inside the Skykeep or in the Great Temple of AoL.
      I could consider the Darknut to be like the Iron Knuckles from Adventure of Link, the servants of the ancient King of Hyrule that gave up their lives in order to protect the Palace and challenge the Hero's courage.
      He's even standing there looking at the Dominion Statue and nothing more ...

      But, the Lizalfoses ? Hardly …
      They clearly don't fit in this place, they are trespassers.

      ZeldaXXCoffee wrote:

      Well what I have read it has been speculated that the Hero's Shade is actually the Link from OoT.
      Yes, I know, he's left handed and knows the songs from his adventure in Termina.
      But he died as a Knight and not as a Hero.

      But, what killed our mighty Hero ?
    • Fal Cie wrote:

      TriforceHolder wrote:

      Then why is Arbiter's Grounds filled with statues of the Goddess of the Sand? It's possible that the Mirror of Twilight was moved after the Gerudo/Hylian War from wherever it was stored previously because the Gerudo desert now empty was so remote and the Spirit Temple so well guarded that the mirror would be safe there. Afterall when we see the Twili struck down in Lanayru's flashback they are standing on green land not desert.
      If it was formerly the Spirit Temple why would they keep any Sand Goddess statues? Let alone make the mechanism at the top into the shape of the goddess?The flashback is not an accurate portrayal of the events. It's more likely that the Gerudo were trusted with guarding the grounds when it was first built, allowing it to be decorated in their style.

      Just consider what you're proposing. The entire mountain the spirit temple is built into would have to be leveled with a colosseum structure built on top of it. Within a few years of Ganondorf being captured. And why would the Sages bring the Twilight Mirror there beforehand for an execution? More likely it was already there and they decided to make quick use of it.

      @Nonoctoro The enemies inside the Temple of Time may have been placed there by the builders to serve as obstacles to the Dominion Rod, much like the enemies inside the Skykeep or in the Great Temple of AoL.
      I agree. In OoT there is that giant statue in Spirit Temple and the same statue can be found in Arbiter's Grounds so I think it's possible that Hylians improved Spirit Temple, because Arbiter's Grounds look a lot like Roman Colosseum.