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    Some observations about C.Ganon in BOTW
    • In most games where Ganon is featured (besides the ones in the 'Downfall Timeline') is that whenever you fight him, you first see him as Ganondorf, he then turns into a demon form, then when defeated or having a final battle he reverts back to Ganondorf again. It's a man who turns into a monster then gets reverted back to a man again.

      But in BOTW this goes in reverse. It's a demon trying to become a man then when defeated turns back into a demon again.

      In the tapestry, Ganon is shown attacking as a demonic form, nowhere in that tale is he mentioned to show up as a Gerudo/human, he is only mentioned as Calamity Ganon. I know the Gerudo say he came from them, and I think it's somewhat touched on in the King's diary, but I found it strange that in the time before the First Great Calamity, that he didn't try to rebuild/reincarnate/whatever before that and show up as that, when there possibly couldn't have been any excuse to either being restrained by Zelda or contained under the castle.

      Even when he's contained under the castle, he doesn't appear to have built any kind of body. While at first this could be ascribed to the Ancient Shiekah monitoring his containment chamber and preventing such a thing, after the King forbid them from using any of their technology, there wouldn't have been anyone after that to keep an eye on him. Even if there had been some magical field to prevent him from doing this, evidently whatever got placed weakened or wasn't good enough, and did not prevent him from breaking free. With any possible field, there would have been a prior time where it still 'worked' but wasn't as good as it used to be, and during that weakening period he could have gradually begun to rebuild a body under the Royals' noses, even if it was tiny bit by tiny bit, but he didn't.

      The only time he seems to try to make a body is when he is restrained by Zelda in the castle. Either this is planned, or it is a response to being restrained by Zelda in the castle. Before and after this body is destroyed, and as he is trying to escape Zelda's sealing magic, he floats about as a giant boar-shaped Malice cloud. When he takes a form to fight Link on horseback, he doesn't take the form of a giant man composed of Malice, he takes the form of a giant demon boar, and it is composed in mere seconds rather then taking a century to build like the body inside the cocoon.

      The other thing about this body is that it is messy with extra legs and arms and is spider-shaped. It is not very human-shaped besides the head, and the head itself looks like it is melting or half rotted. This can't be ascribed to being dimwitted or too 'feral' to know what a human body is supposed to look like, as his Blight Ganons have mostly human shaped proportions and bodies and don't look like spiders or giant pigs. Even with the additions of the Blights to his physical form, he never uses them to merely add mass, strength and power to any existing human-shaped arms, legs, or torso (using the head plates and other things as body armor) he just emerges as a giant spider.

      As a last part, even as Zelda says in the Japanese translation that he hasn't given up on reincarnation, it doesn't seem like he has put much effort into it either. Either a human form is a distant rainy day project for him or he does not care about reincarnation into a human form, and his idea of 'reincarnation' will be something different in mind.

      So any flaws with this observation? This Ganon 'behaves' somewhat differently then the prior games he's been in, and I am wondering if there might be any 'clues' as to what the devs might be taking him in the next games, since I think they've said that continuity might be a bit higher priority now. He will have to be a plausible and versatile end boss to face in future open world Zeldas, and will need ways to keep him interesting and full of surprises.
    • Aku wrote:

      Even when he's contained under the castle

      That's a theory. If 10 000 years ago, he was sealed like Zelda sealed him at the end, with the same Sealing Power, then he is most likely sealed within the Dark Realm/Out of the World.

      Under the Castle was an ancient Sheikah Laboratory, we don't know the purpose of that Laboratory tho, I think Master Works said it was Astrology or something.


      Aku wrote:

      As a last part, even as Zelda says in the Japanese translation that he hasn't given up on reincarnation, it doesn't seem like he has put much effort into it either.
      He let himself be consumed by the Malice, he is even more mindless that the Oracle Ganon which had the ability to talk and just a big thirst for Destruction.

      It's clear that he desires to get back a human form and his intelligence.
      Just like how Demise never wanted to stay as the Imprisoned forever.

      I think that, if the Yigas were so focused over the Thunder Helm, it was because of its capacity to call the powers of the Ancestors of the Royal line of the Gerudo as Riju said when she invoked them and activated the Helm's powers.

      "My name is Riju, descendant of the royal line and leader of the Gerudo people! With the power of the heirloom passed down in my family, I shall calm the Divine Beast Vah Naboris."
      "Ancestors of the Gerudo! Answer my call! Aid me in this task! Oh, wow! I can feel their power coursing through me!"-Riju

      If Ganondorf was part of this line then, what would be the effect of using it on Calamity Ganon ?

      Restoring Ganondorf at his full Glory while keeping all the strenght of the Malice he accumulated over the millennia.
      The Birth of a new "Demise".
    • Honestly, I've never understood this widespread notion that CG is "clearly" trying to turn human again- the only things that might seem to vaguely point in that direction are:

      -his spider mech form's humanoid face (which looks like it's partially molded around a piece of tech anyway and is mainly there to make him look creepy, with no real indication that it's intentional)

      -Zelda's line about not giving up on reincarnation (which doesn't inherently mean reincarnation as a human- he could easily just be trying to stabilize into something other than a shifting cloud of Malice)

      -and at a real stretch, his seeming use of rudimentary tactics in corrupting the Guardians and dispatching the Blights (which could easily have just been him lashing out at a familiar threat, since he'd fought and lost to these machines once before, and turning your enemy's own army against itself happens to be a pretty good way to rip apart their defenses).


      None of these seem like definitive indications that he definitely is trying to turn human again, and outside of these, he behaves like part animal, part force of nature. So I really don't get why this notion is such a popular one.
    • Setras wrote:

      -his spider mech form's humanoid face (which looks like it's partially molded around a piece of tech anyway and is mainly there to make him look creepy, with no real indication that it's intentional)


      It's actually really reminiscent of Ganondorf rather of Ganon.
    • But even so, it's hardly a 1:1 match, and it looks more like Malice congealed around a piece of Guardian machinery and just happening to resemble a human face. This is also supported by how we repeatedly see that Malice can form eyes and teeth.

      It's still too little to go on if we're trying to declare that he's "clearly" trying to be human again.
    • Setras wrote:

      Honestly, I've never understood this widespread notion that CG is "clearly" trying to turn human again-
      I think it's because some people want to see him again as Ganondorf, so they seem to be the ones that are the biggest pushers of it. Personally I would rather Ganon be moved on from this Ganondorf phase as I think Ganon should keep evolving, as honestly, why would he want to return to being human again? He hated living in the desert, his own people think of him as a stain on their history, and he always seemed to get punked by Link and be dependent on the ToP to accomplish anything.

      Now he has almost god tier power, he doesn't need to have the ToP to be immortal anymore, he's gained the power to use the celestial bodies (the moon) and the powers of darkness to resurrect legions of fallen monsters, he can corrupt extremely advanced machinery that can potentially destroy him, and now the only way he can be contained is with the sealing power of the full TriForce, and he has grown so powerful that he has moved beyond the MS being able to do so.
    • Aku wrote:

      I as honestly, why would he want to return to being human again?
      It's the same as Demise and the Imprisoned.

      Calamity Ganon lacks of Intelligence, something Ganondorf was proud of.
      And the other thing is .... Can he use the Triforce in that state ? I don't think so, and that's why he want an humanoïd body once more.

      That's why, for me, if he tried to make a face looking like his old one, it's because he desire to become humanoïd once more.
      And the Yigas would have made it possible with the Thunder Helm calling Ganondorf Back.

      What's the developers said about it :

      "When Link first battles Calamity Ganon, it's in an incomplete state. It could not fully revive because Princess Zelda has been actively suppresing it's power. However, when Link gains the upper hand in their battle it loses its tenuous control of the pure malice within and transforms into a raging beast. The pink and purple tar-like malice that appears all over Hyrule was designed first, and, based on that idea, I decided to make Ganon's entire body into a monster made of hatred and malice incarnate. Dark Beast Ganon takes the shape of a boar like the Ganons of prior games but ended up being very large compared to Link since we wanted the game to end in the vast open plain of Hyrule Field. This might be the biggest Ganon in the history of the series."- enemy artist Yuki Hamada


      It's an incomplete state, he could not fully revive and it's because Zelda was suppresing his power.
      It was losing control of the Malice too.

      If he was trying to revive by taking the shape of Ganondorf, then there is a great chance that he was trying to creat a body that was looking like his human form but ended up with that amalgame of Guardian pieces because he was lacking time and Zelda was annoying him by weakening his power.

      I would trust Yuki Hamada, he was part of the team since ALBW.
    • Aku wrote:

      and now the only way he can be contained is with the sealing power of the full TriForce

      [Internal Screaming]

      *ahem* ...This is another one that is extremely popular, yet unconfirmed and not well substantiated. I'm more inclined to say that Zelda's sealing power comes entirely from Hylia's bloodline, and/or at most from what was left of the Light Force post-TMC.

      But, I digress.
    • Mango The Magician wrote:

      we've ever seen "Ganon" obtain a new body

      The Oracle games ? Or, was it a restaration of his old one using Twinrova's body as a templet.

      There is also Zelda 1, we still don't know how he managed to resurrect after dying as Yuganon, I guess the fusion ended and Ganon's Spirit returned in Hyrule, only for his minions to find a way for him to return.


      Setras wrote:

      *ahem* ...This is another one that is extremely popular, yet unconfirmed and not well substantiated. I'm more inclined to say that Zelda's sealing power comes entirely from Hylia's bloodline, and/or at most from what was left of the Light Force post-TMC.

      That's another debate

      Display Spoiler

      But didn't Zelda used the rest of the Light force to undo Vaati's Evil and seal the Monsters ?

      "The curse on me is broken, and Zeldastill possesses some of the light force. we can do something to make things right. If one with a just heart wears this cap, things can be made right again. Princess Zelda! Let your wishes be made real!" — Ezlo

      フォースの みちびきが あるかぎり
      As long as there is the Force's guidance…

      It's most plausible that the left-over Light Force, aka the Force which reside in everything, was used with the Mage Hat to restore everything and promote Peace within Hyrule.

      I don't think it's the power of the seventh Sage/Maiden, even if similar in action, the description doesn't fit.

      Hylia's Soul and the sacred power running within the Royal Blood ? It's possible, as we saw it in action in ST, it was able to creat a weak point over Malladus and reveal his "Soul Gem".
      But it was only thanks to the help of the Lokomos.

      I see it as a combinaison of Hylia's Power and the hidden Triforce, as there is the symbol of the Triforce each time she used it.
      Hylia's blood mystical powers boosted by the Triforce.


      But that's not the topic here ...
    • @Nonoctoro The process in OOX seems to require Ganon's ashes, and such I would imagine that his old body is being rebuilt...however his demon form of Ganon seems to be able to come back pretty easily, while we've never really seen him come back as Ganondorf...bar maybe WW, as the intro shows him in his boar/demon form, and the final boss of OOT is said form, but then the final glimpse of him in OOT is his human form, so I've no clue.

      ...maybe the only way to revert Ganon to Ganondorf is to have Zelda (using Hylia's powers) or some other holy being forcibly remove the malice that turned him into Ganon.
    • Mango The Magician wrote:

      Yhe process in OOX seems to require Ganon's ashes,

      This was the case in TAoL, but I don't recall anything like this ever being mentioned in OoX. We see Twinrova light the Dark Rite Flames to get things started, they kidnap Zelda to serve as a sacrifice, as the ritual gets underway we briefly see the Flames change to a darker color with Ganon's eyes, and then we see them briefly adopt this color again before being struck by lightning, at which point Twinrova sacrifice themselves and revive an incomplete, raging Ganon. No physical remains of him ever come into play.
    • Setras wrote:

      Mango The Magician wrote:

      Yhe process in OOX seems to require Ganon's ashes,
      This was the case in TAoL, but I don't recall anything like this ever being mentioned in OoX. We see Twinrova light the Dark Rite Flames to get things started, they kidnap Zelda to serve as a sacrifice, as the ritual gets underway we briefly see the Flames change to a darker color with Ganon's eyes, and then we see them briefly adopt this color again before being struck by lightning, at which point Twinrova sacrifice themselves and revive an incomplete, raging Ganon. No physical remains of him ever come into play.
      I was just going by what Zelda Wiki says:

      Dark Rites
    • It makes no sense since Ganon's remains were left within the Dark World that was turned back into the Sacred Realm at the end of ALTTP.
      And I can't see Twinrova going inside the Sacred Realm to retrieve his Ashes or wathever.

      The wiki might be wrong as I failed to find the lines where it's mentionned, even in Japanese.
      But I found this :

      のこる「ほろびの炎」と 「ぜつぼうの炎」がともり 「聖なるイケニエ」をささげるとき われらゲルドにつたわる 暗黒おぎしきは かんせいする 大魔王が よみがえるのだ!
      Once the “Flame of Ruin” and “Flame of Despair” are lit and we lift up the “Holy Sacrifice”, this dark ceremony handed down by us Gerudo will be complete. The Demon King will be revived!

      3つの炎が そろい 「聖なるイケニエ」をささげたとき 闇をさまよう大魔王が このあかりを目ざし よみがえる! ウヒャヒャヒャヒャ!
      When the three flames are lit and we lift up the “Holy Sacrifice”, the Demon King who is wandering in the darkness will aim at these lights and be revived! Uhahahaha!


      「聖なるイケニエ」ゼルダを よりしろに ガノンのタマシイを よびよせれば かんせいじゃ! われらが じきじきに じごくへ おくってくれるわ!
      When we sacrifice Zelda, the "Holy Sacrifice", and summon Ganon’s spirit into the divine vessel, it will be complete! We will personally send you to hell


      ぎしきは ふかんぜんなれど このカラダを ガノンにささげ ふっかつさせようぞ!! キサマも ぜつぼうするがいい! ウヒャヒャヒャヒャ!
      The ceremony is incomplete, but we will give up this body to Ganon and resurrect him!! You too should despair!! Uhahahaha!


      ウヒャヒャヒャヒャ! くるぞくるぞ。。。 3つの炎をめざし いまこそ 闇のそこより目ざめるのじゃ!! 大魔王ガノン!!!
      Uhahahaha! It’s coming, it’s coming… Now aim at the three flames and awaken from the darkness!! Demon King Ganon!!!


      わたしをイケニエし さいごの ぎしきを おこなえなかったため 邪悪な力のみが ぼうそうした 知せいをもたないガノンが ふっかつしたのでしょう
      Because they couldn’t perform the final ceremony of sacrificing me, the evil power went out of control. A Ganon without intelligence was resurrected.

      - So, after his defeat in ALTTP, Ganon's Spirit was wandering into the Darkness, I guess of the Dark Realm as it is also used for the case of Veran and Onox.
      - The Dark Rites are actually of Gerudo origin which is interesting..
      - The three flames are used to attract Ganon's Spirit to his Vessel.
      - The Vessel serves to contain Ganon's Spirit, it's really reminiscent of Malladus' ressurection as he used Zelda's body too.
      Malladus resurrected too, but with his intelligence however he didn't tyrned the bodies he possessed into himself, he just boosted Cole's one.
      -Zelda is needed for the sacrifice as she is "Holy", it surely refers to the blood of the Royal Line which bears the Divine Powers of Hylia. Demise just stole the Soul but his Zelda was Hylia too, her direct reincarnation, not just by blood. I guess they use her sacred blood to contain all of the Demon's King powers. And simple Demons like Cole aren't enough to contain the Spirit of a Demon King, however Cole wasn't enough for Malladus when Twinrova was to Ganon
      menos the Intelligence.
      - Which let me think that the Three Flames actually serves to reshape the Vessel into the Demon's King body.
      That's why Ganon is not in a female body. The vessel is "reforged" kinda like with the three sacred flame and the Goddess Sword.
      - Ganon is not mindless, he just lost his intelligence, that's why he can clearly talk. He's just more brutale and less strategic.


      To go back with Calamity Ganon, I wonder if the Thunder Helm could not have the same purpose as the Three Cursed Flames and summon back Ganondorf's Spirit from within the Darkness but this time of Calamity Ganon ?

      Did Ganon broke from the Seal himself or was it helped by the Yigas ?
      Maybe Zelda's Mother was actually killed by the Yigas and used as a Vessel ? But, since they failed at retrieving the Thunder Helm with Urbosa protecting it, maybe they decided to do an incomplete resurrecion first ?
    • Yeah I'm not sure where Zelda Wiki got that information...maybe they were thinking about AoL? Regardless I'm not a fan of the "Dark Rites" being Gerudo in origin. :/ I get that they're thieves in OOT, but I dislike the idea of a entire race being tied to the concept of evil.

      Anyways, it's clear from practically every game that Ganon (the Pig) is in that he can come back despite what you do to him, bar AoL for some reason. However, in the only instances in which Ganondorf the man is killed, he seems gone for good, and in the case of FSA has to actually reincarnate, so maybe the Ganondorf form, like I said, is just way harder to bring back, maybe it takes forever or he has to wait for a perfect replace to be born within the Gerudo...or something.

      I mean I do find it really odd that Ganondorf supposedly laid dormant for 10,000 years prior to BOTW and didn't come back as human during that time or during the time prior to the first Calamity. Though I guess we don't know what lead to Ganondorf becoming Calamity Ganon, so maybe it's all but impossible to reverse.
    • I think in terms of what the big CG even is, I find myself not even truly seeing him as Ganon or Ganondorf trying to resurrect.

      But more or less the malice attempting to become sentient by taking some form of what it has consumed.

      CG appears to be a composite of not just Ganondorf, but also various guardian tech it has come into contact with and perhaps even a spider that may have made its way into whatever sheikah lab CG was born inside.

      I kind of reminds me of John carpenters "The THING" In that it attempts to replicate the host it comes into contact as a means of survival. But since so many things came into contact with it, The malice is a bit confused and doesn't know which way to go with it.

      albeit, Ganondorf desire for dominance and power is most likely the source of the Malice becoming sentient beyond what we normally see when found in nature.
      Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the ability to overcome it.
    • Ok, this sounds silly, but I legit think that Calamity Ganon was working on something familiar, but at the same time entirely new... a cybernetic body. Think Marvel Cinematic Universe's Vision, who was supposed to be Ultron's perfect body. And like the Gerudo thief he is, it was going to be comprised of parts and abilities stolen from the guardians and the divine beasts.

      Think about it, he had a winning strategy 100 years ago when he turned the guardians and Sheikah tech against the Kingdom of Hyrule and the Champions. When he comes out of the cocoon, he has the Sheikah tech as part of his incomplete state... I think he found it too valuable to let go of.

      I imagine his "reincarnated" state as looking something like Demise with the long flowing red hair, and Ancient tech armor arranged and fashioned similarly to his Gerudo armor in TP.

      And still having traces of the Gerudo thief he once was, he'd probably have the powers and abilities of the "blights", which were actually stolen from the divine beasts and inspired by the champions.
    • Setras wrote:

      Aku wrote:

      and now the only way he can be contained is with the sealing power of the full TriForce
      [Internal Screaming]

      *ahem* ...This is another one that is extremely popular, yet unconfirmed and not well substantiated. I'm more inclined to say that Zelda's sealing power comes entirely from Hylia's bloodline, and/or at most from what was left of the Light Force post-TMC.

      But, I digress.
      The nain reason I am thinking that it's through the complete TriForce is because that is what lights up on her hand when she uses the sealing power. It also does not appear that Link or CG has any of the pieces, so I'm assuming from that context as well that she is in full possession of it. The TriForce can be passed down through the bloodline, and it possible that it is not just inherited Goddess powers that she is relying on any more.
    • This is starting to wander off into an entirely different and much-discussed-elsewhere topic. All I'll say is, we have precedent for Triforce sigils that form on the hand but have little direct relation to the relic itself, see the mark delineating that the Hero of Hyrule is worthy to try claiming the ToC and the Mark of the Hero for Hylia's Chosen Hero. The latter mark especially gives us a relationship between Hylia and Triforce sigils, and so since Zelda was praying to Hylia statues to awaken her hereditary power and even seemingly spoke to Hylia once in a dream, I'm inclined to say this is what's going on. The fact that the sealing power behaves almost nothing like the True Force and we've consistently seen the latter form and stay outside of any hosts when used weakens the idea further.

      I'm honestly still a little bitter that they didn't have Zelda project wings of light from her back instead- given Hylia's statue and symbol as well as the Goddess Plume item, it's basically confirmed that Hylia had wings, so this would've wonderfully lined up given Hylia's importance and connection to the whole training process.

      But, again, I digress.