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    Mueller Report
    • reuters.com/article/us-kazakhs…yev-resigns-idUSKCN1R01N1

      I'm no expert of anything but this is interesting, I really want to see how Russia reacts, or more specifically Putin reacts. The article went on to call Putin and Nazarbayev allies. Which is laughable. If they ever were allies they weren't after this:

      rferl.org/a/kazakhstan-putin-h…tion-nation/26565141.html

      And so soon after Crimea, eh?

      Oh also it isn't Astana anymore it's Nursultan. Let's see how the Far Right Russians see this.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Mozly Alice ().

    • The Mueller Report has the potential to be the end all for Trump. The fears of it being heavily censored are high. I suspect that Mueller will be subpoenaed by the House to confirm or comment on the report f the public version doesn't live up to what we are all expecting. This is going to be a big deal.

      Mozly Alice wrote:

      reuters.com/article/us-kazakhs…yev-resigns-idUSKCN1R01N1

      I'm no expert of anything but this is interesting, I really want to see how Russia reacts, or more specifically Putin reacts. The article went on to call Putin and Nazarbayev allies. Which is laughable. If they ever were allies they weren't after this:

      rferl.org/a/kazakhstan-putin-h…tion-nation/26565141.html

      And so soon after Crimea, eh?

      Oh also it isn't Astana anymore it's Nursultan. Let's see how the Far Right Russians see this.
      I was really uncomfortable with the renaming of Astana into Nursultan. Normal regimes don't name their capital after themselves.

      I then realized that the capital of my country was named after our first president and while he was still alive. I then looked up the city of Nursultan and found out that while it is an older city, it's one by multiple names over the years and the name Astana is barely 20 years old.

      I still don't like it and I think it's a yellow flag of something to pay attention to.
    • HeroOfTime5 wrote:

      This is when I wish I understood law better.

      Is the fact that there are no new indictments damming?
      Well, there is still the possibility of a seal indictment(s); it has not been confirmed whether or not Robert Mueller has any sealed indictments prepared though we do know that it wouldn't be related to Russian Collusion. It can very much be an entirely different crime.

      Furthermore, I am more worried about how much Barr is going to give Congress. I agree, nothing is really ever going to change or happen. Best to gear up for the next 2 years with vicious right-wing conservative teasing, sensitivity issues, and unrelenting anger despite exceeding in both the Executive and Judicial Branch (technically the Senate too).
      [Error 404 - No Signature Here You Big Dummy]

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Aquamentus ().

    • Viajero de la Galaxia wrote:

      I'd just like to point out that as of right now, Trump has not tweeted for 30 hours

      This has to be a record, and it comes at very curious time

      Got to keep the dream alive I guess . . .

      We'll see what happens, but things aren't looking too good for the Russia Gate brigade.

      A rational response to this news might be a sense of relief that the President isn't a foreign agent and didn't work with Russia to undermine American interests in whatever vague manner has been alleged. Another rational response might be a sense of annoyance or betrayal toward the media (particularly CNN) that heavily played this story up, whether for ratings or because it is was what their audience craved. I saw this dynamic with a co-worker. Any time a supposed Trump/Russia bombshell story broke, it was time to put on CNN!

      However, we know a rational response is too much to ask for. Instead, people will double down (Mueller was comprised, justice was obstructed, the investigation wasn't thorough etc) or, in a best case scenario, just move on to the next fake outrage.

      And it is a fake outrage. There is almost zero authentic concern about "Russia" among the American public. From the beginning it has simply served as 1.) A convenient excuse for losing an impossible election. 2.) A means to try and impeach Trump.

      There are plenty of ways to know that concern over Russia is purely political, not genuine.

      1.) When Mitt Romney cited Russia as America's number one concern at a debate, Obama criticized him. In a memorable line, Obama said Romney wanted to take us back to the foreign policy of the 1980s. The left was broadly supportive of this take. They--correctly, in my view--ridiculed Romney for his outdated viewpoint on Russia and general war-mongering.

      2.) To this day, Democrats, Never-Trump Republicans, and the left-wing activists in the media down-play this clip of Obama openly colluding with Russia on video.

      youtube.com/watch?v=MNxEDomUlXw

      He says he'll have "more flexibility after the election," what did he mean by that? It sure sounds like he was not being totally forthright with the American public, and once he was not bound by having to win reelection, he would be able to give concessions.

      You can say this is not a huge deal, and I would probably agree with you. This kind of negotiating and blunt honesty is surely commonplace in diplomatic discussions. But I think it is worth asking yourself, would you feel different if it was Trump on hot mic, and if so, why?

      3.) Nobody cared about any of this until the media told them to care. This might be the most important reason of all. The scariest part of this whole story is not Russia or Russian trolls. It is how much the mainstream media can influence the narrative in this country, how they can peddle a baseless conspiracy theory for nearly two years because they don't like a particular President. They should apologize to their viewers, but that will never happen. Assuming this really is the end for the Mueller investigation, it will simply be memory holed and they'll basically pretend it never happened, and it'll be on to the next "scandal."

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Bill ().

    • Bill wrote:

      3.) Nobody cared about any of this until the media told them to care. This might be the most important reason of all. The scariest part of this whole story is not Russia or Russian trolls. It is how much the mainstream media can influence the narrative in this country, how they can peddle a baseless conspiracy theory for nearly two years because they don't like a particular President. They should apologize to their viewers, but that will never happen. Assuming this really is the end for the Mueller investigation, it will simply be memory holed and they'll basically pretend it never happened.
      This wouldn't even the first time the media has done this. Spanish-American War, anyone?

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Kerest: Note: I double-checked and no news yet. So, pretty much, treating this only as a possibility. ().

    • This isn't even the first time the media has done this. Spanish-American War, anyone?

      While I can't say I know a lot about the Spanish American War in general, it is clear to me that it is disturbingly easy for the media to gin up support for any war they choose.

      It says a lot that one of the only times Trump received nearly unanimous praise from the mainstream was when he ordered strikes.

      37 indictments or guilty pleas and this dude is still pretending it's a theory

      log off bill lol

      None of the charges were related to collusion as far as I am aware. There were indictments for Russian nationals posing as Americans (i.e. nothing to do with the campaign). And then there were indictments for crimes unrelated to the election or campaign. Big whup.

      You can pretend that you care about those indictments, but I won't pretend like I do. The people who were indicted committed a crime and I am glad they were prosecuted. I don't give a shit about Paul Manafort. Trump is still the President and will be for at least two more years.

      And you may "lol" all you want, but it doesn't fool me for a sec. I know this news has to hurt as hopes for impeachment are basically dead, and that was the only reason anyone cared about this in the first place (oh, and because Russian propaganda tends to bolster the right-wing, as if that is somehow a bigger problem than the mainstream media and big tech throwing their collective weight behind Democrats).

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Bill ().

    • I mean, there are literally crimes related to Russia and GRU in those indictments so ... okay? lol. Some of Trumps closest advisors and friends have been scooped up by this.

      I'm not sure why you think that hopes for impeachment are dead. There has been absolutely no news regarding the report other than it is in Barr's hands. Unless you suddenly are Attorney-General, that is. And even if it says nothing of Trumps behaviour, Trump has committed crimes since gaining office. Whether obstruction, witness intimidation, violation of the emoluments clause - that's all it takes to begin impeachment proceedings. Will it get through the Senate? Who knows. The GOP like to pretend they give a shit about being tough on crime but they care an awful lot less when it's someone with an R next to their name.


      “Gandalf put his hand on Pippin's head. "There never was much hope," he answered. "Just a fool's hope, as I have been told.”
      ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King

    • I love how those who don't believe there was collusion on both the right and left call it "Russia Gate"... you know Watergate was a real thing and not a conspiracy made up by the left... right?

      In any case we'll likely find out what Mueller's investigation found soon if it is not buried, Thus far I have never been presented with evidence or information that disproves what has already been reported about Trump's ties to Russia, I am frequently told (mostly be people on the far left) that its all been disproven, but when asked what specifically has been disproven I am met with silence.

      As for the Russian collusion being used by the Clinton team as an excuse for their loss... I actually agree. Russia didn't shut down the airspace in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Ohio preventing Clinton from campaigning in those states, she chose not to campaign there. But the thing is, you can both believe that Clinton ran a terrible campaign and also believe that there was collusion, these are not mutually exclusive beliefs.

      I would discuss more, but there is nothing to actually discuss (unless someone wants to tell me what specific things about already reported ties to Russia have been disproven), lets wait to actually see the document and then we can have an actual informed discussion instead of speculation about what Mueller might have found.
    • As for the Russian collusion being used by the Clinton team as an excuse for their loss... I actually agree. Russia didn't shut down the airspace in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Ohio preventing Clinton from campaigning in those states, she chose not to campaign there. But the thing is, you can both believe that Clinton ran a terrible campaign and also believe that there was collusion, these are not mutually exclusive beliefs.

      No, they aren't mutually exclusive.

      I think what I find irritating is the insinuation that "Russian meddling" (with collusion or otherwise) somehow altered the outcome of the election.

      1.) I think whatever the influence of Russian meddling, it is far outweighed by biased reporting, and increasingly, tech companies censoring conservative content. In other-words, if you offered to "trade" me the full weight of the mainstream media and big tech for Russian trolls, I'd take that deal in heartbeat.

      2.) Of course I also find it obnoxious when people claim or insinuate, without any publicly available evidence, that Trump is somehow compromised or a "foreign agent." If there was a tit-for-tat agreement to somehow sell out American interests in exchange for help winning an election, yes, I would have a problem with that, and he should be impeached and prosecuted. But that is an extreme claim that has no evidence.

      Both of these points essentially serve the same purpose, which is to create a narrative that Trump is somehow an illegitimate President, which is a huge insult to everyone who voted for him. Even though impeachment is unlikely, Russiagate has succeeded in slowing MAGA agenda and putting a cap on his approval rating. The fact that that unproven claims have been used this way for almost two years is a disgrace. If there was a case to be made, it should have been prosecuted immediately.

      The only good thing is that I think this going to be another blemish on the mainstream media. How must it feel to eagerly boot up CNN or your preferred left-wing podast and be led on to believe that impeachment could be just around the corner, only to have to ball pulled away time after time?

      I have to believe that some subset of rational, independent minded people will eventually catch on that these networks are 1.) simply telling their audience what they want to hear for ratings 2.) Are absolutely deluded by their hatred of the President. They can't possibly be objective at this point, even if they tried. They're not journalists, they're activists.

      I think Trump is going to come out stronger.

      Hell, I hope the Democrats pursue impeachment. They win the house, and all they do is launch more investigations, even after the Mueller report? They're going to look petty. Even if they got the votes in the House, there is no chance in the hell they get 2/3 in the Senate, so it would amount to a meaningless symbolic gesture, just as it was for Bill Clinton, and we know how that worked out.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Bill ().

    • Lucretia wrote:

      Kerest wrote:

      To be blunt, impeaching Trump won't even get through the House. Pelosi has gone on record as opposing it.

      Unless the Democrats suffer a full-blown rebellion against their leadership, Trump's only worry is if he can get reelected
      eh that's just her playing politics, and politics is as true to its word as wax is to its form
      That's probably because the attempt to impeach Clinton cost the people trying it quite a bit in political power. It's in Pelosi's interests from a purely political standpoint to keep Trump in power until the election and use anything they find against him then.

      I do suspect this strategy is the best chance to pay off in the short term, but will cost Pelosi and her allies within the Democrat party extremely in the long run.

    • That's probably because the attempt to impeach Clinton cost the people trying it quite a bit in political power. It's in Pelosi's interests from a purely political standpoint to keep Trump in power until the election and use anything they find against him then.

      I do suspect this strategy is the best chance to pay off in the short term, but will cost Pelosi and her allies within the Democrat party extremely in the long run.


      While on the road recently, I listened to a fascinating podcast about the Clinton years and the Ken Starr investigation. Lot of interesting parallels with today. It's called "Slow Burn" and I highly recommend it.

      What's obvious in retrospect is that Republicans at that time had an extreme hatred of Bill Clinton, which was arguably rooted more in personality than policy. Bill Clinton, as a President, was a conservative democrat and was able to pass meaningful legislation with bipartisan support. However, Republicans hated how effective if he was, hated his demeanor, viewed him as fundamentally dishonest and immoral ("Slick Willy"), and this clouded their judgement. They pursued a strategy of impeachment for misdeeds that were trivial and personal in nature, and the American public punished them for it.

      Similar dynamic could play out, but we'll see.