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    Zelda Universe vs. YouTube Theories: Non-Zelda Edition
    • Inspired by this thread.

      Ever seen a bad video game theory on YouTube, but felt powerless to voice your frustrations because it would be drowned in the sea of YouTube comments? Fear not! Here, you can debunk any bad theory you've seen about any video game. Not confident enough to do a full-write up? You can either post a few quick points, or request if someone else could do it for you.

      I'll start off with the Pokémon theory that inspired me to make this thread.

      Bird Keeper Toby & Ruin Maniac - Entei, Raikou, Suicune Connect To Hoenn?



      First of all, that thumbnail makes it look like that random Furisode Girl is Entei.

      (Disclaimer: I haven’t played most of these games in a while, so I’m going off of memory and skim-reading Bulbapedia. Don’t be afraid to correct any mistakes I make.)

      After a 50-second introduction, Toby says that he made a theory about Ho-oh and the Legendary Beasts a year ago. I’ve never seen it, and I don’t think I need to to understand this theory. He then says that there’s not a lot to connect them besides the myth that Ho-oh revived the Legendary Beasts. Fair enough, but not much is known about them besides that.

      He then says that in the original Pokémon Ranger (which I’ve never played), the Legendary Beasts appear, but Ho-oh doesn’t. Instead, the ruins where you find Entei are covered in the markings of Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza. It makes him wonder if there’s a connection.

      Then he introduces his co-star, Ruin Maniac. Ruin Maniac mentions that old theory that the Legendary Beasts were originally Vaporeon, Jolteon, and Flareon, and recaps their canon backstory. He also points out that the Kimono Girls act as guardians for Ho-oh and Lugia. But wait - are they really? Their only connection is summoning them.

      He then mentions that they use Eeveelutions, as do the Wise Trio from Crystal (which I’ve never played). He mentions that the original Eeveelution’s normal abilities are the same as the Legendary Beasts’ hidden abilities… except they’re not. The Beasts’ hidden abilities were unavailable in Gen 5, then they were all boringly changed to Inner Focus in Gen 6.

      Ruin Maniac says that the Eeveelutions are used as keys to enter the temple at the top of the Chikula Mountains in Pokémon Ranger. Toby points out that there are two other temples like it: the Jungle Ruins in Fiore, and the Embedded Tower in Johto, which have similar markings. The latter was said to be built by people who migrated from Hoenn long ago who worshipped the Weather Trio. (Because Super-Ancient Pokémon sounds incredibly generic.) He deduces that it was built by the Draconids, who also built the Sky Pillar and the Cave of Origin. (Since when? The closest I could find on Bulbapedia was that the mural in Sky Pillar was painted by them.)

      Toby says that the Draconids worship Rayquaza, and that another group of people in the Pokémon world worship dragons: the people in Dragon’s Den. His evidence for this is that their leader in “the manga” (ie: Pokémon Adventures) wears a Rayquaza symbol… but several people in the comments have pointed out that it looks more like a generic Chinese dragon. Also, hooray for mixing canons! (Let’s also not forget that in the Kanto arc of Adventures, the Indigo League was evil and the gym badges had magical powers.)

      Ruin Maniac deduces that the Draconids built the temple-where-you-find-Entei and the Embedded Tower. (So what was the point of bringing up the Jungle Ruins if neither of you were going to mention them again?) He says that the people in Pacifidlog Town pass down the legend of Rayquaza (do they?), and that an old man in the Pokémon Center says that the town was founded by people who spend their whole lives travelling the sea, which sounds similar to the Seafolk from Sun and Moon. The Seafolk are apparently described as skilled sailors with knowledge of myths and stars, similar to the Draconids. Except for the sailors part, I guess.

      He then says that the Seafolk Village looks similar to Pacifidlog Town and Summer Town in Fiore… except it doesn’t. The Seafolk Village is docks, while the other two are huts on platforms.

      And then Toby brings up the Kimono Girls again. He says they’re similar to the Draconids because they have ties to Johto, Hoenn (this is the first time they’re brought up in relation to it in this video), legendary Pokémon, and Infinity Energy (this is the first time this has been mentioned in this video). Also, generic Furisode Girls appear outside of the Cave of Origin and Sky Pillar (places related to Infinity Energy)… who look nothing like the Kimono Girls besides wearing kimonos. More evidence for the Infinity Energy part is that they gave the bells to Bill, who gave them to Captain Stern, who was trying to harvest Infinity Energy. Therefore, they were once one and the same.

      (Nitpick: he repeatedly calls the Kimono Girls and Draconids “organisations”. I don’t think he knows what that means.)

      Ruin Maniac recaps what Toby just said, then adds the idea that the Draconids travelled to other regions, and are related to the Dragon Tamers from Blackthorn City. He says that they have connections to the people from Ecutreak City because the old man who gives you the quiz in Dragon’s Den tells you about Lugia.

      Also, Mr. Pokémon gives you the stones used to summon Groudon and Kyogre in the Embedded Tower (he says, as the on-screen images are clearly the orbs from Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire), and he’s also friends with the Kimono Girls. He then mentions that there’s a hiker in the Embedded Tower, who he believes is the same hiker who appears in the Sinjoh Ruins and the Ruins of Alph, so therefore, there’s a connection between the Embedded Tower and Ruins of Alph, because you find evidence of people worshipping Ho-oh there, but doesn’t say what that evidence is. Here’s what I could find:
      1. The mysterious noises heard on the radio channel 13.5 include Ho-oh’s cry.
      2. A hidden room will open if Ho-oh is in the player’s party, where it is also depicted on the sliding puzzle.
      By that reasoning, though, the people who built the Ruins of Alph also worship Arceus (another one of the mysterious noises is the Azure Flute) and fossil Pokémon (which are also depicted on sliding puzzles).

      “Therefore, it is safe to assume the Kimono Girls are related to these ruins,” he says.

      Toby recaps the entire theory, adding the point that the Draconids built the temple in Fiore, and then…

      Perhaps it wasn’t even Ho-oh who revived the beasts in the first place! Perhaps it was the Kimono Girls who had the ability to understand and use Infinity Energy. After all, we’ve never actually SEEN Ho-oh revive stuff; it’s just in this one myth, this one legend, that we hear about time and time again. [...] Maybe what the Kimono Girls did to the Eeveelutions to create the Legendary Beasts is kind of like what AZ did to his Floette, bringing it back to life, reviving it. And that would also explain why there Raikou, Entei, and Suicune appearing in these temples who seemingly have nothing to do with Ho-oh at all.

      Wait, what?
      • As people in the comments pointed out, there IS evidence of Ho-oh reviving stuff in the games: it comes with the Sacred Ash, which heals the entire party.
      • As I said at the start, not much else is known about Ho-oh and the Legendary Beasts.
      • AZ had to kill loads of Pokémon to power a weapon of mass destruction to revive his Floette, and it turned both of them immortal. How did the Kimono Girls revive three Pokémon with seemingly no harm done to anyone?
      • The difference between the Eternal Floette and a regular Floette is WAY less drastic than the difference between the Eeveelutions and Beasts.
      • If Ho-oh can’t revive stuff, how did it become associated with the myth?
      • What about the Legendary Beasts being worshipped in Oblivia? (I haven’t finished Guardian Signs.)
      • Or the fact that Team Snagem have the Legendary Beasts for some reason? (I haven't finished Colosseum either.)
      This blatant defiance of Occam’s razor is annoyingly common in Pokémon theories. Here are a few examples off the top of my head:
      • Elderly people in Alola call Vulpix “Keokeo”? CLEARLY, they’re referring to the last common ancestor of all canine Pokémon!
      • A book in Canalave Library says that “there existed no difference between [humans and Pokémon]”? CLEARLY, Pokémon are transformed humans who got trapped in another dimension… except that the same channel said in the comments of a previous video that they didn’t think that line was meant to be taken literally… and it’s part of a long-running theory series that also says that Pokémon are shape-shifting aliens who want to help humans… (I like this one, but in an “it makes good fanfiction” kind of way.)
      • A Pokémon was moving in the same general direction as the player in a trailer? CLEARLY, there must be walking Pokémon in the next game!
      (Can anyone think of any others?)

      In conclusion, this is the Pokémon equivalent of The Cult of Masks: a theory that tries to tenuously connect three (sets of) games together by making crazy assumptions and presenting speculation as fact.
    • This seems like a rather fun idea, since I am also invested in some non-Zelda Nintendo franchises. Let's tackle this one about Metroid from our good friends at the Game Theorists:

      The Game Theorists and the one sentence they missed



      I will be goind through this one chronologically, with timestamps where the points in question can be found. Without further ado, let's get started.

      • Slight nitpick: around 1:29 it is said that Super Metroid is about defeating Mother Brain and ending the Metroid threat. While the second part of this is technically true, it ignores a lot of context. In the preceding game, Metroid II or its remake Samus Returns (which was not out yet at the time of the video's release), Samus kills all the Metroids. She spares a single baby however, which bonds with her and sees Samus as its mother. This baby is stolen by the Space Pirates in Super Metroid and the game is more about retrieving it before the pirates can use it to do harm. So Samus is technically stopping the Metroid thread, but it is more accurate to say she is trying to retrieve the last baby Metroid from the hands of the pirates.
      • The actual theory starts around 4:30 after a lengthy introduction explaining the Etecoons and Dachoras in Super Metroid, as well as the fundraising done in relation to them at GDQ.
      • Around 4:41 it is said that Metroids are not the major threat in the games' canon and that instead the X Parasites are. For the majority of the series's chronology however, the X Parasites had almost been driven to extinction by the Metroids. They only rebound after the Metroids are killed off by Samus in Samus Returns, while before that the Metroids are pretty much the main threat alongside the Space Pirates and Phazon in the Prime games. The X Parasites are only really relevant in Metroid Fusion, which is just one game.
      • At 5:00 the manga is mentioned, but its canonicity is questionable at best since contradicts the games that came out before and after it. The manga is cited frequently throughout the video, while it contradicted the games that were out at the time. Samus Returns also gives the true version of how the X Parasites were discovered by the Chozo, but that game was not out yet when the video was made so I cannot fault MatPat too much for that. The account the manga gives on the X Parasites' properties is fairly accurate however so there is not too much of a problem with that.
      • At 5:58 it is said that the X Parasites can copy technology, but this isn't entirely true. They can only copy technology that is partly biological, which most Chozo technology is. The X, for example, could not fully copy the B.O.X. Security Robot boss and only its neural network.
      • At 6:42 MatPat says the Metroids are the good guys, which is not really true. The Metroids are just creatures, created by the Chozo for a noble purpose which they fulfilled. However, the Metroids can just as easily be used for evil as the Space Pirates demonstrated in Zero Mission and the Prime series. This wrong assessment is also the main issue with the following section, which lasts until 7:40, where MatPat rants about the Chozo not revealing the existence of the X Parasites to other factions. They had very good reasons for this, as MatPat himself even alludes to when citing the manga: the Chozo feared that the X would be viewed as a splendid technology. This is namely exactly what ends up happening in Fusion: the corrupt faction within the Galactic Federation tries to research and weaponize the X before they are killed off by Samus. The X cannot be controlled however and would have run over the entire galaxy if they had gotten hold of a Federation spaceship. The Chozo were wise to try to eradicate the X as quickly as possible and not tell anyone about their existence. As mentioned before, the X had also almost gone extinct due to the Metroids so the problem had been almost solved. It was not until the Federation decided to kill off all the Metroids that they became a problem again. Overall, an unjustified rant on the part of MatPat.
      • At 9:03 we finally arrive at the meat of the theory: MatPat thinks the Etecoons and Dachoras in Fusion were infected by the X Parasites. This completely ignores the fact that Samus's computer in Fusion explicitly states that the animals are not X hosts: MatPat doesn't even mention this in his video or try to address it in any way. The animals were also not infected simply because the X had not reached that part of the station yet.
      • After this the video starts to go completely off the rails. The second point MatPat brings up to support his theory is that the Dachoras display extreme abilities in Super Metroid. He also says the X were on planet Zebes, which is simply untrue. Before Fusion, the X had only been on planet SR388 and in the game they spread to the B.S.L. Station in orbit of that planet. The X have never been to Zebes, we do not see any X Parasites in Super Metroid, and the abilities of the Etecoons and Dachoras resemble the Chozo abilities because the Chozo also lived on Zebes. Most likely, those abilities were inspired by the Etecoons and Dachoras and not the other way around.
      • At 10:21, MatPat asks why the Etecoons and Dachoras get along with each other while other Zebesian species do not. The other species are violent to Samus because of the telepathic powers of Mother Brain or because they are Space Pirates, while the Etecoons and Dachoras seem unaffected.
      • At 10:35 MatPat says that Fusion takes place one game after Super, which is not true as Other M takes place between the two. This may however be a subtle reference to the widespread circlejerk in the Metroid fanbase that likes to pretend Other M does not exist.
      • At 11:00 MatPat begins about the escape vehicle of the Etecoons and Dachoras and that they had it ready. However, there was a defunct ship nearby that they could have used instead; the Wrecked Ship. MatPat brings up this possibility, but completely ignores the backstory of the ship. It was not a ship used by the Etecoons and Dachoras to come to Zebes, but instead belonged to the Chozo who used it to come to Zebes. Also, if the X Parasites had access to space travel, the X would already have become a galactic plague. MatPat also alludes to this, but fails to understand that the galaxy would already have been consumed by the X long before the start of the series if they had access to space travel.
      • At 12:03 MatPat speculates the X Parasite infection on the B.S.L. Station in Fusion started with the Etecoons and the Dachoras, saying no explicit explanation is given. However, the infected X specimen the reseachers collected from SR388 before the game and the parts of Samus's infected power suit that gave rise to the SA-X are responsible for the infection, as alluded to in-game.
      • MatPat's last point is that the X in the Etecoons and the Dachoras purposefully allied with Samus, who doesn't know any better, so they could spread further. However, in Fusion Samus has become part-Metroid due to the Metroid Vaccine mentioned earlier in the video. Every X in the game attacks Samus viciously because of this, but the Etecoons and Dachoras of course do not.
      All in all, the filler portion of this video was not too bad but the main theory is bananas, with none of the main arguments being true or relying on heavy speculation. The theory is also explicitly denied in-game by a single sentence and the video fails to address this in any way.
      Extended Child Timeline (ECT): SS > Era of Wars > OoT > MM >> TP >>> TMC >> FS backstory >> FS > FSA >> Seal War > LTTP > OoX > LA >> LBW >> Golden Era >> Zelda 1 > Zelda 2 >>> BotW
      AT: SS > Era of Wars > OoT >> Great Flood >> TWW > PH >> ST >>> TFH

      :sparta:

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Ymcan64 ().

    • I've never played a Metroid game, and most of my experience with it comes from a stint last month when I watched a lot of videos by The Orpheon, so all I can say is that I'm surprised I never knew this video existed. I don't watch every Game Theory video, but sometimes I check out the channel out of boredom, and they frequently appear in my recommendations. I thought it was really recent until you said it was made before Samus Returns came out.

      Also, what part was the filler?
    • The video dates back to late 2016 and most of the stuff before the main theory is filler wherein the lore is explained (albeit with holes). The actual theory about the animals starts around 9:03, where the video starts to go off the rails.
      Extended Child Timeline (ECT): SS > Era of Wars > OoT > MM >> TP >>> TMC >> FS backstory >> FS > FSA >> Seal War > LTTP > OoX > LA >> LBW >> Golden Era >> Zelda 1 > Zelda 2 >>> BotW
      AT: SS > Era of Wars > OoT >> Great Flood >> TWW > PH >> ST >>> TFH

      :sparta:

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Ymcan64 ().

    • Okay, so this theory isn't directly about the games, but it's game-related, so...

      MatPat tries to be a detective


      The gist of this theory is that Detective Pikachu belonged to Ash. His evidence?
      • It's definitely set in the same world as other Pokémon stuff because there are easter eggs referencing regions. (This is fine, but I have two nitpicks: he refers to Sinnoh as appearing in the games but Johto as appearing in the anime, and there's a part where he shows footage of Let's Go with the boxarts of Diamond and Pearl in the corners.)
      • It's set in the anime continuity because there's a Jigglypuff with a marker, which is one-of-a-kind. (This seems tenuous.)
      • Pikachu was Ash's because he has drunk tea, and Detective Pikachu likes coffee. (Also tenuous.)
      • Both Pikachu have met Mr. Mime and Charizard. (There are a lot of those in the world.)
      • Tim can understand Pikachu in the same way Ash can, such as when Pikachu talks in the 20th movie. (A lot of trainers can understand their Pokémon once they become close. The scene where Pikachu talks was supposed to convey this. Why would Tim be able to understand a Pokémon he's never met before?)
      • Finally, making an in-depth theory about something that hasn't been released yet, especially one as Farfetch'd as this, is never a good idea.