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    Hylia's motivations ??? Just ruling over all races ?
    • Hi all,

      Contrary to some believes, there is no clear statement in game to explain WHY Hylia just sended Hylian in the sky and let all other species on Earth to fight with her in SS backstory.
      When looking at the general behavior of Hylia and of her bloodline, we may start to question her motivations.

      So, how do you interpret this action ? What is your point of view about Hylia's objectives ?


      So what do we know:
      Hylian Legend : The goddess sended Skyloft in the Sky to : put the triforce in a safe place, protect the Hylians survivor.
      Demise point of view: From Demise point of view, Hylians are cowards that just went into hidding at the moment of the battle. He thereforce consider them as weak people.

      From my point of view:

      She only protected Hylians, but kept all the other species with her on the ground to fight against the demons, including Kikwi, Parella, Ancient-Robot, Goron, and Mogma.
      It is clearly precised that they fight against the demons, not that they went into hidding somewhere else.
      Thus, why only protecting Hylians and letting other races face their fate ?
      Strangely, it seems that Hylia was not giving the same "importance" to all races, if Hylians "deserved" to be protected, other races were just flesh for the front line.
      This is particularly weird when we look at Kikwi, Parella, or ancient Robot ... races that have no fighting skill, and that appear unable to take down Bokoblins.

      The name of the race is interesting, because if all races seems to venerate Hylia, it appears that only one race use her name for their race: the Hylians, and their kingdom: Hyrule.
      It gives the status of some "chosen people" to the Hylians, compared to the "unchosen", that are just good to be ruled by Hylia's bloodline among Hylians (as it is over the whole serie).
      A power that this bloodline want to keep, even if they have to betray their own protector, the Sheikah (as shown in BotW backstory of the first Calamity, and maybe by OoT backstory).
      Hylians unified Hyrule not in a peace context, but via a war ... even if we don't know the reasons behind the war, the conclusion is that all races in Hyrule are under Hylia's bloodline monarchy domination.

      Consequently, we might wonder if Hylia is such a good goddess, or just another being that just wanted the power.
      Maybe Hylia-Demise war, is not that much about good vs evil, but just about power and conserving it.
      We also know that Hylia as a goddess is not able to use the Triforce. Why did the Golden Goddess (GG) chose to create such an artefact ? An artefact that gods can't used ?
      Apparently, they created a tool and appointed Hylia as a guardian, but Hylia can't use the tool.


      Let now enter into my own interpretation of that.
      The GG never appointed Hylia as the guardian of the Triforce. Hylia is just a power being that created her own servitor Hylians/Sheikah to rule the land.
      Knowing that the Triforce was a powerful tool only usable by mortals, Hylia chose to protect it to avoid anyone from using it against her.
      Maybe here is the true purpuse of the triforce, giving to mortal a way to fight back against the "gods" ?
      At some point Demise tried to take over the power, he also created his own army of "demons".
      Hylia just sended her servitor in the sky with the Triforce, and used all other species as shield during the war.
      The Sheikah role in all of that is not known, but strangely, they are listed among the races that fighted alongside Hylia. Were they created after Demise sealing ?

      From this point, Hylia knows that when Demise will comes back, she'll loose the fight. She therefore chose to become mortal to be able to use the Triforce*.
      But, new strange thing ... she is not doing it. She send Link to get the Triforce. Why not doing it herself (After the Lanayru ToT, She could go for the Triforce in the past and use it) ?
      Maybe she couldn't access the Triforce ? Was Hylia behind SS last dungeon, or was it the GG ? Thus maybe whe was using Link to open the "doors" ... like Ganondorf in OoT somehow.
      Finally, once Link have saved the day, Hylia reincarted (Zelda) sized control over the Triforce on the ground and start again to rule over the land.

      *Even if really apointed by the GG to protect the Triforce, Hylia's move of becoming humans to use it seems to goes against the GG instention, that created an object that Hylia can't use. So Hylia is therefore by her actions opposing to what the GG have decided.

      One extra question is "what kind of being is Hylia ?"
      Because, in term of power-level, she was barely able to defeat Demise, something Link have also done.
      So, she is not that powerfull. It is therefore likely that she not even close to be at the same level than the GG.
      Thus Hylia might just be from a very powerfull race leaving in Hyrule, that just use powerfull magic/technology to appear as a goddess for less advanced societies.

      Hylia's behavior and actions are in fact showing that she is a dictator, justifying her power by claiming to protect the people. But a protector don't have to rule to do so.
      She is also instoring an unfair society where Hylians are clearly favored compared to other species.
      Indeed, Hylians control most of the territory (BotW) and ressources.
      Other races are allowed to occupy regions not suited for Hylians (Desert/Cold region/Volcano/Water body) but barely more. No ruins from other races are seen beyond this not-hylian-friendly locations.
      Hylians are in no way playing fair with other races in Zelda universe, they are taking most of the thing for them.

      We could also note that the Demise curse is bound to Hylia's bloodline and the hero spirit.
      Thus, if Hylia's bloodline and the hero spirit disapear ... the curse would probably end.
      The real protection for creature in Hyrule would be to sacrifice herself.


      As a conclusion:

      Hylia is no better than Demise, she is just the one sitting on the Throne, and is only nice toward her people, as his Demise.
      Hylia and her bloodline are responsible for the creation of Ganon, they are the one cursed ... not Hyrule.
      Link is just a pawn, used by Hyrulean Royal Family to defeat Ganon.
      He is a hero rising among the Hylians, a role that the royal family didn't seems to be able to fill.
      Link is the only one that have to prove is valor, Zelda's power are granted by birth.
      Link(s) are therefore the only ones worth to use the Triforce ... not a royal family that is coming from a goddess that bypassed her non-ability to use the Triforce by becoming mortal.
    • Mango The Magician wrote:

      we don't know when the Hylians (humans at this point in time) came into being right? Who's to say Hylia didn't create the Hylians (who would go on to be the basis for all human races in Zelda) and that she simply was more partial to them since she was essentially their mother?
      I think she is definitely related to Hylians in some way, because her statue is showing a Hylian-like woman even before being re-incarnated as Zelda.
      So, Hylia creating the Hylians in the first place sounds very possible.
    • I sort of agree with you where you Royal family is concerned, but not so much Hylia.

      Sending only the humans skyward was probably a complicated decision that doesn't necessarily come down to saving the people she cared about the most. There are good reasons not to send the Parella to a place where transportation is dependent on riding giant birds. Also, while the Triforce was relatively safe in the sky, Ghirahim did reach above the clouds with a tornado to interfere with Hylia's plans. It makes sense to have people who are at least somewhat combat-capable up there to act as the last line of defense. That doesn't mean that personal bias didn't factor into Hylia's decision, but there's no way to know how large a part it played.

      For the races on the surface, I admit it's hard to imagine the Parella or Kikwi being much use in a war. I would guess that Gorons did most of the fighting, with Mogma (who actually look pretty tough) providing support and flanking. The Ancient Robots may have provided weapons (like those used by technoblins) or even specialized combat robots like Scervo and Dreadfuse. If memory serves, most of the ones we meet are miners.

      I'll also point out that in SS, humans were just called humans. Most likely, Hylians named themselves after Hylia sometime after that (though I admit it's possible the term was used before that and we were just unlucky enough to miss it). That may have been to distinguish themselves from other humans who didn't follow Hylia, but sooner or later, it would almost have to become a mark of pride or entitlement. But again, that isn't something that Hylia did, as far as we know.

      The Royal Family is lot more questionable. We don't know exactly what happened 10,000 years before BotW, but it really seems like the king at that time, and to an extent the people, were simply afraid of anyone having more power than them and banished not only Sheikah technology and those who refused to give it up, but all the Sheikah indiscriminately. And they did enforce peace by seemingly conquering everyone shortly before OoT.

      Guiguitargz wrote:

      We also know that Hylia as a goddess is not able to use the Triforce. Why did the Golden Goddess (GG) chose to create such an artefact ? An artefact that gods can't used ?
      Apparently, they created a tool and appointed Hylia as a guardian, but Hylia can't use the tool.
      My interpretation is that the Golden Goddesses were after balanced conflict. Hylia and Demise have roughly equal strength. Hylia has the Triforce but can't use it. Demise could use the Triforce if only he could get his hands on it. That keeps the world moving in a dynamic way, which I guess is what they wanted. That's as much headcanon as theory at this point, though, since we're told basically nothing about the GG's motivations.

      Guiguitargz wrote:

      One extra question is "what kind of being is Hylia ?"
      Because, in term of power-level, she was barely able to defeat Demise, something Link have also done.
      Well, Demise hadn't regained his full strength when Link fought him, and Link had the Master Sword, which Hylia probably didn't since it hadn't been forged yet. But really, the title of "god" or "goddess" doesn't seem to imply a certain power level in Zelda. Jabu-Jabu was considered a deity, and he hardly did anything. A weak goddess is still a goddess.

      Guiguitargz wrote:

      Hylia is no better than Demise, she is just the one sitting on the Throne, and is only nice toward her people, as his Demise.
      The only thing I remember Demise doing toward his own people is ripping a sword out of Ghirahim's chest.

      Conclusion: I don't think the Hylian Royal Family are on a much stronger moral footing than most other medieval-style monarchies, but Hylia's own actions seem to be fairly just.
      Goddess of the Sands

      Map of Thyphlo Ruins

      Forest Architects

      If you have Amiibo Tap: Nintendo's Greatest Bits on Wii U, you can reset which games your amiibo unlock by deleting the game and then redownloading it.
    • Evran_Speer wrote:

      I'll also point out that in SS, humans were just called humans. Most likely, Hylians named themselves after Hylia sometime after that (though I admit it's possible the term was used before that and we were just unlucky enough to miss it). That may have been to distinguish themselves from other humans who didn't follow Hylia, but sooner or later, it would almost have to become a mark of pride or entitlement. But again, that isn't something that Hylia did, as far as we know.
      According to TP, the Hylians were "born" after the sky people founded Hyrule. At the same time, the sky people created a new capital that floated in the heavens (the City in the Sky).
      Extended Child Timeline (ECT): SS > Era of Wars > OoT > MM >> TP >>> TMC >> FS backstory >> FS > FSA >> Seal War > LTTP > OoX > LA >> LBW >> Golden Era >> Zelda 1 > Zelda 2 >>> BotW
      AT: SS > Era of Wars > OoT >> Great Flood >> TWW > PH >> ST >>> TFH

      :sparta:
    • Because being fair in argumentation is also giving speach time to opposition, even when done in a very impolite way, let adress some contestations ... that seems to claim that questionning Hylia's motivation is a near-blasphemy level activity.

      Jedi Master Sagan wrote:

      Good and bad are objective in this world

      Just no !
      Even if a god tells you his (its ?) conception of Good and Bad, it didn't make it objective.
      Here, it is your belief.
      The fact that God(s) exist didn't make them morally perfect.
      If you want to say otherwise, thanks to demonstrate it with ingame facts !

      Honestly, if a student of mine gives me a draft containing such logically-flawed statement, I stop read here and just send him back the draft with one message: "To be re-done !!!".

      JEDI MASTER SAGAN wrote:




      Maybe if you stopped patting yourself on the back so much you might have realized that you just tried to disagree with the axiom "if people are scared about something, there's a reason for it". And you did so by—wait for it—supplying a reason for people to be scared. *slow clap* Well done.
      I think here you missed the point.
      I'm not challenging the fact to be scared for a reason ... I'm challenging the reason :yeppers: .
      Please, try to focuss to avoid such "fails".

      You claimed that the fact Hylia wanted to protect Hylians was just because they were "weaklings".
      I'm very kindly explaining you that you cannot consider this "reason" as a fact, because there is others that could fit (this is why I speak about interpretation).
      Unless you find an ingame line stating that Hylia chose to protect the Hylians because they were particularly "weak" compared to other tribes, this explanation is not a fact.

      What says the game is that Hylia wanted to protect Hylians and the Triforce. The WHY them and not the others is not known. It is thus open to interpretation.

      Jedi Master Sagan wrote:

      Yeah, no. The notion that Demise was correct in his assessment of the humes is the default position

      Except that Demise was not stating what you are claiming.
      Demise states that humans were cowards, because they went under the protection of the Goddess.
      He therefore call them "weak people", because they chose to hide instead of fighting.
      He is never ranking them compared to other races. Hylians being weaker than the other is therefore a complete invention from you !

      Therefore, if we take the "weak" criteria has Hylia's motivation, we might find weird that Kikwi, Parella, Ancient-Robot are not entering in the "weak" category.
      So what make these races more suited for warfare than humans ?
      Demise is not saying a word about that.
      So we might wonder from where is coming your knowledge of that ?
      Argumentation by "fanfic" is not valid to disprove an interpretation.

      Your position in two lines:
      Hylia chose to protect them, so she has reasons.
      As Hylia is a Goddess and God are objectively good, her reasons cannot be bad.

      Real time reaction: :arch:
      This is not a reasoning, you just put the conclusion among your assumptions.
      Additionnaly, your global corpus of assumptions is dubtous.
      Again: "To be re-done !!!"

      Jedi Master Sagan wrote:

      You present the Kikwi and Parella as support, but the Kikwi are capable of camouflage in the woods to a degree that no hume can match (fact!), and the Parella possess aquatic mobility unmatched by the humes, or indeed any other race seen in SS (fact!).
      What you call "fact" are in fact going against in-game content.
      Kikwi are listed among the races that battled the demons ... they didn't used "camouflage", they participated to the war.
      We saw how great are Kikwi to fight demons at the very beginning of the game ... an amazing result.
      Regarding Parella, they know to swim ... How does that make them suited for warfare ?
      It is great to bring "fact", but relevent one would be better :yeppers: .

      Jedi Master Sagan wrote:

      But sure, you can believe whatever the hell you want
      Thanks a lot, I was waiting so badly for your greenlight !

      JESI MASTER SAGAN wrote:

      As far as the facts are concerned, though, your skepticism is baseless and not worthy of consideration by anyone else as a serious proposition.
      Sadly, you have failed to backup your position with fact.
      And luckily for everybody, you are not in a position to give a review (obviously, looking at the number of basic confusion you are making).

      My conclusion:
      After a carefull observation of Hylia's actions, and considering the explanation proposed in-game for her action, I consider her behavior suspect enough to be interpreted in multiple ways.
      This conclusion is an interpretation. Contrary to some peoples, I try to not claim having the ultimate truth when I didn't have it :yeppers: .

      The very clumsy explanation you propose for her behavior in SS is far from being convincing.
      My skepticism is based on a very disturbing concept: not believing what people are saying, but what people are doing. Applying this very simple concept to the Zelda world.
      I noticed that your position is more like: whoever speak about X is right about X by default.
      Didn't sounds like a working way of evaluating informations.

      What is not worthy of consideration is your clumsy counter-argumentation, that is logically flawed and mistake interpretations for facts :(.

      Having answeared your "arguments", I will now-on kindly ignore messages that contain flawed argumentation.
    • Evran_Speer wrote:

      Sending only the humans skyward was probably a complicated decision that doesn't necessarily come down to saving the people she cared about the most. There are good reasons not to send the Parella to a place where transportation is dependent on riding giant birds. Also, while the Triforce was relatively safe in the sky, Ghirahim did reach above the clouds with a tornado to interfere with Hylia's plans. It makes sense to have people who are at least somewhat combat-capable up there to act as the last line of defense. That doesn't mean that personal bias didn't factor into Hylia's decision, but there's no way to know how large a part it played.
      I globally agree with that.
      I just found this choice of story-telling: "only saving one race of chosen one", horribly bad in terms of the message that is sended.

      Evran_Speer wrote:

      We don't know exactly what happened 10,000 years before BotW, but it really seems like the king at that time, and to an extent the people, were simply afraid of anyone having more power than them and banished not only Sheikah technology and those who refused to give it up, but all the Sheikah indiscriminately. And they did enforce peace by seemingly conquering everyone shortly before OoT.
      In BotW I didn't really enjoyed the hidden message behind Sheikah/Yiga split.
      Because the "nice" are the one who complied, and the "bad" are the one who rebelled against an abusive King.
    • It always seemed pretty clear cut to me., Hylia was created by the GG's and assigned specifically to protect the Triforce. She created an army of people in her image to act in the physical world as protectors. Those people were in danger of falling at the hands of Demise so she lifted them upward along with the Triforce to keep them out of reach. This was a decision made AFTER a lengthy battle that was already taking place and she felt she was losing. The Sheikah were tasked with staying on the surface in order to bottle neck Demise's advances and in a way, act as a front line of defense should he return.

      When Hylia says Hylians are the chosen people, The fact is, they were chosen to be the protectors and keepers of the Triforce. Something she could not physically interact with herself.

      That being said there isn't anything beyond their species that makes them special short of having a typically inherent connection to Hylia and by Proxy, the Triforce. Especially the Royal Family.
      During peaceful times, Soldiers will lay their arms down and pick up Plows, become family men, lose their protective instincts. Generations would pass with no incident and when an invasion finally does happen, the people are very ill prepared. Even Link, as shown in Botw, falls victim to times of peace which ironically is the only time Hylians even get a chance to rest.

      So you could say she chose out of favoritism but the fact remains, these people were born to be doomed in a somewhat endless cycle. Acting as a sponge to absorb the impact of Demise's/Ganon's invading forces.

      That's my head cannon anyway.
      Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the ability to overcome it.
    • I think part of the issue here is that your treating/viewing the "races" of Zelda as if they're on par with the "races" of reality when in the case of SS and to a lesser extent BOTW, they're more so meant to be stand-ins for all of humanity. The choice to save the Hylians wasn't a choice to save the Hylians it was a choice to save humanity.

      Likewise it might have been a choice done in hopes of fostering an actual civilization. I mean without Hylians the races on the surface...didn't do much at all. The Gorons were nomadic, the Parella only stayed around Faron, the robots were likely created by Hylia or created to serve Hylia/humanity, and the Mogma don't seem super interested in forming a civilization...and there's like maybe 20 of them? Oh and the Kikwi...they're like basically on the same level as like animals, just they can talk...there's no way a Kikwi civilization would come about.

      Mix this with the fact that Demise killed countless things and nearly destroyed the world and I fail to see why Hylia can't at least be seen as a lesser of two evils.
    • MORPHRELINK wrote:

      Acting as a sponge to absorb the impact of Demise's/Ganon's invading forces.
      This the weakest point, they are the only one bound to the curse.
      So in some extend, the best way to protect Hyrule would be for the Royal family to leave it.


      Mango The Magician wrote:

      I think part of the issue here is that your treating/viewing the "races" of Zelda as if they're on par with the "races" of reality when in the case of SS and to a lesser extent BOTW, they're more so meant to be stand-ins for all of humanity. The choice to save the Hylians wasn't a choice to save the Hylians it was a choice to save humanity.

      Yeah, I have difficulties ro see differently entities with which you can discuss.


      MORPHRELINK wrote:

      This was a decision made AFTER a lengthy battle that was already taking place and she felt she was losing. The Sheikah were tasked with staying on the surface in order to bottle neck Demise's advances and in a way, act as a front line of defense should he return.

      I would agree that this happened after a large amount of battles.
      Still, game content highlight the fact that "saving" the Skyloftian (on top of protecting the Triforce) was the goal.
      Saving the Human but letting all other races face a war ... is definitely posing moral issues.
      When your right of going into hidding depends on your species, I have my detector of stinky phylosophy that start to trigger.

      Sheikah are a big question in SS, because they are not listed with the five other races. So in fact, we know very little about their involment.
      Which indeed let a lot of space for heacanons.


      MORPHRELINK wrote:

      That being said there isn't anything beyond their species that makes them special short of having a typically inherent connection to Hylia and by Proxy, the Triforce. Especially the Royal Family.

      Which in Zelda world gives them a right to rule over the other ... again my detector triggers.
      Being a protector of something is one thing, because of this "particularity" sizing control over other species ... hum.



      Mango The Magician wrote:

      I mean without Hylians the races on the surface...didn't do much at all. The Gorons were nomadic
      The Gorons we met in-game are very curious creature studying the remants of a distant past.
      They are some sort of historians.


      Mango The Magician wrote:

      the robots were likely created by Hylia or created to serve Hylia/humanity

      That also, I have issue with this. Why robots (that in many extend appears to have free-will) would be bound to serve a master ?
      When you give consciousness to a being, you can not dispose of it like an object.
      Concerning the robots, their origin is yet to establish, up to now it is a very free headcanon spot :) .


      Mango The Magician wrote:

      the Mogma don't seem super interested in forming a civilization

      They show strong social interactions, are organized to discover treasures. To me, this as much a civilisation then the village in the sky.


      Mango The Magician wrote:

      Oh and the Kikwi...they're like basically on the same level as like animals, just they can talk...there's no way a Kikwi civilization would come about.

      Ooookkkk ... I will pass this one.


      Mango The Magician wrote:

      Mix this with the fact that Demise killed countless things and nearly destroyed the world and I fail to see why Hylia can't at least be seen as a lesser of two evils.

      Demise servant kill Hylia servant, Hylia servant kill Demise servant.
      We are just playing the game as Hylia's soldier.
      It is like when two countries are at war ... you usually side with your country, whoever is the responsible of the war.

      Who knows how would be a world under Demise control ? Maybe just full a peacefull Bokoblins.
    • Guiguitargz wrote:

      This the weakest point, they are the only one bound to the curse.
      So in some extend, the best way to protect Hyrule would be for the Royal family to leave it.

      This is exactly what happens in Wind Waker and the curse was broken.


      Guiguitargz wrote:

      Saving the Human but letting all other races face a war ... is definitely posing moral issues.
      When your right of going into hidding depends on your species, I have my detector of stinky phylosophy that start to trigger.

      Other species at the time were mere animals and or lesser evolved. Hylia was saving the people she felt was best suited to protect the Triforce in a last line of defense. Aside from a robot nation we are unfamiliar with, Demise would have had little to no reason to attack creatures who were not evolved enough to pose a real threat or even be aware that there was something to protect. We also have to take into account that some of these species may not have existed during the time of Demise's initial invasion.
      At no point in any other civilized races history was there a mention that they too fought in the war against Demise.

      In addition, Hylia is a divine being. Just like demise, She transcends time itself. Simply peering into the future and seeing that a champion would rise from the Hylian race may have been enough to say. "Okay, So if this race dies, Link can't be born. Gotta make sure that doesn't happen." For all we know she could have only saved a single family and they just grew in population from there. Skyloft was pretty much Noah's Ark after and it's not that big.


      Guiguitargz wrote:

      Sheikah are a big question in SS, because they are not listed with the five other races. So in fact, we know very little about their involment.
      Which indeed let a lot of space for heacanons.

      Hence my disclaimer of my understanding of Hylia's actions as being head cannon.


      Guiguitargz wrote:

      Which in Zelda world gives them a right to rule over the other ... again my detector triggers.
      Being a protector of something is one thing, because of this "particularity" sizing control over other species ... hum.

      I seem to recall a certain Civil War and multiple other events in which races fought for control over the Triforce. There is plenty of in game evidence to suggest that, just like you, not everyone agrees that the Royal Family is best suited for the job of protecting the Triforce. OoT back story specifically addresses this issue and points to the royal family attempting diplomatic solutions.

      --

      Nonetheless My my responses as you can very well tell are not counter arguments. I'm simply pointing that your questioning about Hylia's decisions have not gone unnoticed in game lore. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that, morals aside, not everyone in Hyrule is a firm believer that Hylia is all she's cracked up to be.

      We could say the same thing about Moses, and Noah and how they led the "chosen" people.
      It's all perspective and I respect your right to have one.
      Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the ability to overcome it.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by MORPHRELINK ().

    • MORPHRELINK wrote:

      Other species at the time were mere animals and or lesser evolved.
      I don't know the meaning of "lesser evolved", in terms of biology it didn't have any meaning.
      Evolution is not a line toward progress.

      If you mean "lesser evolved" as "lesser intelligent", they were still sentient being.
      Considering them as "animals" without clear informations seems not reasonnable to be.

      This kind of reasoning sound, at best, dangerous to me.
      It is exactly what used to think some peoples about others not that far in the past of our beautiful planet.

      MORPHRELINK wrote:

      Hylia was saving the people she felt was best suited to protect the Triforce in a last line of defense.
      It is fun because on this forum there is a very loud guy that have exactly the opposite line of sought.
      He is claiming, quite strongly, that Humans were poor weaklings that needed to grow in the sky.

      Just to say that this is definitely up to interpretation.
      For instance, on a fight between an Hylian and a Goron, I'll go with the Goron ... on average they seem more suited for a fight.


      MORPHRELINK wrote:

      Aside from a robot nation we are unfamiliar with, Demise would have had little to no reason to attack creatures who were not evolved enough to pose a real threat or even be aware that there was something to protect.

      That's an interesting point.
      Demise (and Ganon afterward) seems to only care about conquering Hylians. His intervention in other species affair seems only related with getting the Triforce.
      In BotW, the Guardians never went to Rito-village, Gerudo-town, Zora-village, or Goron-village.
      However, they reach the extreme part of Akkala.
      The fact that Gorons/Zora/Gerudo/Rito were spared (except the Champions) by Calamity Ganon might lead to an interesting conclusion:
      If they want to survive, maybe other species should avoid to be too close from Hylians.

      However, in the context of SS, your argument is a bit confusing.
      If this species are not posing a threat to Demise forces, it is even worst for Hylia to use them in a war, were they are just useless creatures used as flesh for the front line.


      MORPHRELINK wrote:

      also have to take into account that some of these species may not have existed during the time of Demise's initial invasion.
      At no point in any other civilized races history was there a mention that they too fought in the war against Demise.

      SS intro clearly states that the races of the ground fought against Demise.
      The intro even shows shadow of the species matching the five concerned : Kikwi/Parella/Mogma/Goron/Robots.
      So, this backstory is the way humans remembers the events. It might not be accurate, but it would be weird that a legend contains prophetic information about future races that wasn't around when human left the ground.


      MORPHRELINK wrote:

      In addition, Hylia is a divine being. Just like demise, She transcends time itself. Simply peering into the future and seeing that a champion would rise from the Hylian race may have been enough to say. "Okay, So if this race dies, Link can't be born. Gotta make sure that doesn't happen."
      So if Demise transcends time, he knew he was gonna die ... so then he commit suicide through his actions.
      If prophetic powers are not to be excluded in Zelda world, it is tough to speek about "transcending time".
      And the power level of being called "Divinity" in Zelda world is not nessessarly that high.
      I found this explanation a bit like : "Shut up, it's magic" ... but as i said it is open to interpretation.


      MORPHRELINK wrote:

      I seem to recall a certain Civil War and multiple other events in which races fought for control over the Triforce. There is plenty of in game evidence to suggest that, just like you, not everyone agrees that the Royal Family is best suited for the job of protecting the Triforce. OoT back story specifically addresses this issue and points to the royal family attempting diplomatic solutions.
      The fact that Pre-OoT war was for the Triforce didn't seem to be proven. It is an assumption I think.


      MORPHRELINK wrote:

      We could say the same thing about Moses, and Noah and how they led the "chosen" people.
      It's all perspective and I respect your right to have one.
      At least in a Zelda world in-universe perspective Hylia has an historical existence :) .

      Disclaimer: the following text will speak about the archeological reality of our world, if you are beliving in the historical accuracy of the content of some fantaisy book written ~2500 years ago, you might prefer to not read the following text (don't complain if you read):
      Display Spoiler
      The two men you are refferencing are associated with some fairy tales that have been written at best hundreds of years after potential events used as inspiration.
      Both are interestingly associated with "events" that are: for one known to be false (the global flood) and for the other largely mythological (the exodus).
      Indeed, no archelogical traces of the exodus have ever been found, and the devollement of Iron-age civilisations in Canaan is clearly supported by facts to be an in-situe devellopement and didn't show any trace of having been conquered by invaders.
      It is also worth noting that Egyptian New Kingdom was not practicing slavery (this concept have been introduced in Egypt by the Greeks way later).

      In particular, the aspect of "chosen people" in the context of middle-east final-bronze-age religions is easily understandable considering that all "groups of peoples" were having their own titular god.
      Each tribe were "chosen one" of their own god.
      And when every body is a chosen one ... no one is in fact :) .
      These religions were mainly polytheist and evolved slowly toward monolatry and thus finish in monotheism (receiving well identified multiple influences from the mythologies of the surrounding great civilisations, some myths can even be found in some earlier versions in sumerians tablets.).

      So all this stuff about "chosen peoples", to be direct, it is bullshit. Every civilisation was seing themselves as "chosen ones" at some point. In Europe the monarchs used to claim to rule from divine rights ... in my country, didn't really ended well for them ...
      All this text just to remind one thing: religion-based justification of any kind of "divine-right" is a very dangerous thing in the real world (it led to many, many exactions accross human history) ... better to be carefull with that.

      Great if mythology can inspire some peoples to do good things ... but it starts to be borderline when people start to believe that their mythology as priority over the objective-reality.
    • @Guiguitargz

      Skyward Sword intro wrote:

      ...They burnt forests to ash, choked the land's sweet springs, and murdered without hesitation.

      Demise wrote:

      And when you do fall, know that your world and everything in it is mine to dominate...Mine to subjugate...Mine to rule!
      There's no ambiguity here. Demise is a demon, a demon bent on destroying everything and anything. Hylia is infinitely better by default.

      Again...also take note of how despite being called "Hylia" the term "Hylian" is never really used in SS. The battle between Demise and Hylia was a terrible battle that only came about because a ton of demons rushed out of the Earth and started murdering people and destroying the realm in hopes of getting the Triforce. The decision to send the "remaining humans" into the sky was maybe done with a bias but was also likely a strategic decision as Hylia feared that if nothing was done they'd be wiped out.
    • Mango The Magician wrote:

      There's no ambiguity here. Demise is a demon, a demon bent on destroying everything and anything. Hylia is infinitely better by default.
      He wants to rule, Hylia too seems to have some inclination for "ruling".
      Destroying everything ? How can you rule if you destroy everything ?
      He definitely want to destroy Hylia-related stuff.

      For humans, Hylia in infinitely better.
      But if you were a bokoblin, would you think so ?

      Btw, the meaning of the word "demon" is not nessarly negative (even if some cultural bias are at play here for western modern countries). It comes from greek, and it essentially refers to being that are "above/beyond" humans.


      Mango The Magician wrote:

      The decision to send the "remaining humans" into the sky was maybe done with a bias but was also likely a strategic decision as Hylia feared that if nothing was done they'd be wiped out.
      Yep, so it is dramatic if Humans perrish ... but Kikwis and co can die ... they are mere animals ?
      I know it isn't the goal, but your defence is in fact convincing me that Hylia's behavior is really morally inacceptable.
    • @Guiguitargz the decision to send the humans into the sky came after the battle had started. How do you know that said decision wasn't done as more humans had simply died than the other races? Similarly, what choice do you believe Hylia had? Leave all the races on the ground and watch as some of them are exterminated by a group of demons who just literally want to watch the world burn?
    • Mango The Magician wrote:

      How do you know that said decision wasn't done as more humans had simply died than the other races? Similarly, what choice do you believe Hylia had?
      I don't claim I have the answear :) , I'm just looking at Hylia's action and evaluating if they are acceptable.
      I'm just saying that the way things are presented:
      1) let protect the humans by putting them in the sky,
      2) let go fight demons with other species,
      sounds weird.

      What choice ? Saving fractions of each race for exemple.
      But as you were trying to defend it, if only the humans got the right to be saved, it is because they are somehow "superior" to others ... that are just "animals".
      And that's exactly the position I'm finding morally inaceptable.

      Mango The Magician wrote:

      Leave all the races on the ground and watch as some of them are exterminated by a group of demons who just literally want to watch the world burn?

      So there is only two possibilities ? (i) saving only humans, (ii) letting all races die ?
      This is exactly what I didn't consider as a satisfying explanation.

      At the ends, it appears that Hylia only cares about humans, other species are just "tools" to reach her goals (and fair enough if they have to die in the process).
      A society where the ruler gives privileges to a sub-group based on their species ... sounds very terrible to me. Missing the similiraties with some real-world stories is hard.

      After, you were considering the nomadic lifestyle of Goron a sufficient reason to dismiss their culture.
      I think, I prefer to not elaborate on that ... I just hope you don't apply similar criteria to real-life cultures.
    • Saving the humans instead of the other races because they're the most socially active and technologically advanced does make sense in a heartless sort of way, but it also doesn't Hylia in the best light.

      Guiguitargz wrote:

      Yep, so it is dramatic if Humans perrish ... but Kikwis and co can die
      To be fair, though, the Kikwis did survive. The only race that died out on the Surface is the Ancient Robots, and that seems to have more to do with desertification than war. If the "remaining humans" Hylia sent to Skyloft were all that were left, maybe they would all died, too.

      Guiguitargz wrote:

      What choice ? Saving fractions of each race for exemple.
      With limited space on Skyloft, that may have been impractical. There's aren't many humans there as it is; crowding them out to make room for Gorons, Mogmas, Kikwis, and Parella wouldn't lead very much room for anyone.
      Goddess of the Sands

      Map of Thyphlo Ruins

      Forest Architects

      If you have Amiibo Tap: Nintendo's Greatest Bits on Wii U, you can reset which games your amiibo unlock by deleting the game and then redownloading it.
    • WTF??? She was charged with safeguarding the Triforce and the creation of the Goddesses. Demise was trying to wreck and rule the world. The Triforce could vanquish him but only mortals with the right heart could properly wield it. So she sent a group of humans Skyward to give birth to that mortal. She also gave up her divinity to incarnate as a mortal.

      It’s not as though the other races were less worthy, they were just better at surviving on the surface.

      Furthermore if Hylia was hellbent on ruling the world, she would have used the Triforce to grant her human everlasting life.
    • Evran_Speer wrote:

      Saving the humans instead of the other races because they're the most socially active and technologically advanced does make sense in a heartless sort of way, but it also doesn't Hylia in the best light.
      I'm not even sure that we can say that humans are:
      1) The most socially active compared to Goron, Parella, Mogma
      2) Technologically advenced compared to Ancient Robots.

      Evran_Speer wrote:

      To be fair, though, the Kikwis did survive. The only race that died out on the Surface is the Ancient Robots, and that seems to have more to do with desertification than war. If the "remaining humans" Hylia sent to Skyloft were all that were left, maybe they would all died, too.
      The effective outcome is saying little about the intentions.
      It is better to be wrong for right reasons, than being right for wrong reasons.


      Red Dingo wrote:

      Demise was trying to wreck and rule the world.
      So basically taking over the position of Hylia :) .
      Interestingly, Demise Hatred Incarnation (Ganondorf) is also a chosen one of the Goddesses.
      So in some extend, he has as much god-support from the Golden-Goddess than Hylia's bloodline.

      Red Dingo wrote:

      The Triforce could vanquish him but only mortals with the right heart could properly wield it
      Stuff about the triforce are unclear. In ALttP it is stated that the Triforce is not taking into account moral considerations.

      Red Dingo wrote:

      So she sent a group of humans Skyward to give birth to that mortal.
      Yep, she used a mortal to do something she couldn't to remove her adversary from the picture.

      Red Dingo wrote:

      It’s not as though the other races were less worthy, they were just better at surviving on the surface.
      Still, she used them as front line flesh when she was putting her beloved humans in a safe place.

      Red Dingo wrote:

      She also gave up her divinity to incarnate as a mortal.
      Something she did because she had no choices, whe was wounded to a point that she wouldn't have been able to fight Demise when the seal would have break.

      Red Dingo wrote:

      Furthermore if Hylia was hellbent on ruling the world, she would have used the Triforce to grant her human everlasting life.
      Hylia cannot use the Triforce.
      And when you're aiming at ruling, you need powerfull minions, but not too much ... if not they can overtake you.
    • I mean her human INCARNATION would have wished for everlasting life... as in being the same Zelda ruling over Hyrule for an eternity, instead of reincarnating through a bloodline.

      Stuff about the triforce are unclear. In ALttP it is stated that the Triforce is not taking into account moral considerations.


      All the more reason that one must ensure that a selfless hero uses it instead of just any mortal. At any rate I meant a balanced heart.

      So basically taking over the position of Hylia .
      Interestingly, Demise Hatred Incarnation (Ganondorf) is also a chosen one of the Goddesses.
      So in some extend, he has as much god-support from the Golden-Goddess than Hylia's bloodline.

      No he doesn’t. As you said before, the Triforce has no moral alignment. Holding a piece of the Triforce does not mean a Golden Goddess favored you. Ganondorf valued Power above Wisdom and Courage. His heart was not balanced enough when he touched the complete Triforce so the other two pieces escaped him. It had nothing to do with whether or not Din supported him.