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    Demise and The Imprisoned make no sense, at all.
    • Fal Cie wrote:

      If Impa couldn’t do anything why would she bother staying behind?
      Two reasons which are explained in game.

      1. As a servant of Hylia, she is duty bound to protect and serve Hylia and her temples. That means she protects the Sealed Temple/Temple of Hylia, the Time Gates, Zelda inside the crystal cocoon, and the Master Sword. So her duties are pretty simple. Be a sentry at Hylia's Temples. That's where all the important stuff is.

      2. Young Impa is from the past. That's where she belongs. She couldn't come forward through time and stay there because her old self already exists there.
    • Fal Cie wrote:

      Then why even mention the remains decaying in the first place? It’s clear that they’re giving a clue for why The Imprisoned still exists.

      Also Ghirahim interfering still is part of the loop, old Impa wouldn’t have her bracelet otherwise.
      Mentioned the remains because we saw Link use the MS to absorb those fragments of Demise. Had those remains been allowed to escape, Demise potentially could've come back. But sealed inside the MS, the blade of evils bane, which evil hands can never touch. There will be no resurrection for him this time. Should another follower like Ghirahim, Twinrova (like in OOX) or Yuga (ALBW) attempt to bring the demon back.



      I contest that Ghirahim is not part of the loop. Ghirahim wasn't supposed to interfere at all. His whole interaction in SS, monkey wrenches Hylia's plans. At the same token, Groose interfering, helping Link and saving Zelda from her death fall (when Demise had taken her soul and tossed her empty shell) also wasn't apart of the plan/loop. Hylia's plan was for her hero or her human self to use the TF to wish Demise away. Ghirahim managed to exploit Hylia's time gates to achieve his own goals.

      Zelda gave Impa the bracelet as a farewell gift for her help. Not because of anything Ghirahim did.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by AllStarNemesis ().

    • Why "set up for Demise's revival" and then have a crucial step occur entirely off-camera? They could just as easily have had the lingering cloud of evil left behind when Demise was defeated slither back underground or be forced there. Indeed, shortly after SS came out, I remember coming up with an alternative ending where Ghirahim absorbs Demise's essence to protect it, then Fi uses the power of the Sacred Flames she'd absorbed to turn Ghirahim into the Sealing Spike, which would rather nicely close the loop while giving us a character interaction that really should have happened.

      But I digress. SS's ending requires assumptions no matter which route you take and clearly should have been screened a bit more closely before it was put in. As it stands, it's pretty much up to interpretation.
    • @Evran_Speer now that I have absolutely no answer to. I seriously wish there had been a line from Groose or Impa saying that she teleported it away to get more sun, then brought it back when Link went into the past with the sapling.

      @Setras I wont deny it could have been made more clear, even a scene of the dark aura flaring around the sword and Impa transferring it to the spike could have been put in the credits.
    • As aforementioned, I subscribe to the "it was all time loops, except for the final battle which produced a split" viewpoint. With that in mind, I personally address the Life Fruit Tree the same way I address Magic Bean sprouts in OoT- they're actually always there in the "future," but simply don't finish growing and thus become visible aboveground until their seeds have been planted in the past (thus avoiding Grandfather paradoxes into the bargain), at which point their mature selves erupt from the ground and can be used accordingly. There's also precedent, albeit not involving time travel, of certain trees in the Zelda multiverse having irregular growth cycles like this, see the Korok trees in WW that mature almost instantly when Makar plants them, while the other Korok trees are all permanently stunted until they've all received Forest Water and all simultaneously become mature and healthy.
    • Setras wrote:

      As aforementioned, I subscribe to the "it was all time loops, except for the final battle which produced a split" viewpoint. With that in mind, I personally address the Life Fruit Tree the same way I address Magic Bean sprouts in OoT- they're actually always there in the "future," but simply don't finish growing and thus become visible aboveground until their seeds have been planted in the past (thus avoiding Grandfather paradoxes into the bargain), at which point their mature selves erupt from the ground and can be used accordingly. There's also precedent, albeit not involving time travel, of certain trees in the Zelda multiverse having irregular growth cycles like this, see the Korok trees in WW that mature almost instantly when Makar plants them, while the other Korok trees are all permanently stunted until they've all received Forest Water and all simultaneously become mature and healthy.
      The Life Fruit can't be apart of the loop. Why? Because it can't be a loop/pre-destination paradox that the Thunder Dragon would both die (we saw his skeletal remains) and live (after we time traveled and transported the seed from the desert to the forest). Since the Thunder Dragon was essential in teaching us his part of the song, so the Hero could find the TF. His unexpected illness and death, monkey wrench the loop and Hylia's plan. The same way Ghirahim escaping the Earth prison and menacing Zelda and Link monkey wrenches her plan.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by AllStarNemesis ().

    • @AllStarNemesis, to be fair, reanimating Lanayru involved using Timeshift Stones, and those were already demonstrated to do weird things with enemies and objects that don't really entirely fit the loop or split paradigms. That's an issue in and of itself, yes, but technically it's less time travel, i.e. going back in time, so much as it is forcibly dragging everything within the Timeshift field to a previous temporal point, so it's not necessarily subject to the same causality and paradox dilemmas.

      Personally, I address Timeshift fields the same way I address Veran's antics in OoA- the weird changes they create actually do create paradoxes and split the timeline, but the ensuing different timelines essentially get welded together at certain points, so in the timeline wherein we're playing, time seems malleable. A bit contrived, maybe, but OoA has some evidence for it (mostly everything surrounding Symmetry City) and it nicely addresses the only real outliers in the series that the loop/split model doesn't quite account for.
    • Setras wrote:

      @AllStarNemesis, to be fair, reanimating Lanayru involved using Timeshift Stones, and those were already demonstrated to do weird things with enemies and objects that don't really entirely fit the loop or split paradigms. That's an issue in and of itself, yes, but technically it's less time travel, i.e. going back in time, so much as it is forcibly dragging everything within the Timeshift field to a previous temporal point, so it's not necessarily subject to the same causality and paradox dilemmas.

      Personally, I address Timeshift fields the same way I address Veran's antics in OoA- the weird changes they create actually do create paradoxes and split the timeline, but the ensuing different timelines essentially get welded together at certain points, so in the timeline wherein we're playing, time seems malleable. A bit contrived, maybe, but OoA has some evidence for it (mostly everything surrounding Symmetry City) and it nicely addresses the only real outliers in the series that the loop/split model doesn't quite account for.
      So, what you're saying is that situations like this are essentially a mini Dragonbreak? Huh. I never thought of it that way. Though I should have. Time was somewhat malleable in Ocarina of Time. what with needing to complete one half of the Spirit Temple in each era. I dunno if the Adult Era initially had Nabooru kidnapped; now I feel like in order for that to happen you have to go back and make it happen. Or maybe it's like the Song of Storms paradox- where it HAS happened- just you haven't experienced it yet. I dunno.
    • Okami Takahashi wrote:

      So, what you're saying is that situations like this are essentially a mini Dragonbreak? Huh. I never thought of it that way. Though I should have.

      A slight tangent on Dragon Breaks
      I feel like the idea of Dragon Breaks are used a bit too liberally- people seem keen to bring it up any time there are, well, time-based shennanigans afoot. As I understand it, a Dragon Break specifically refers to a phenomenon in TES when the current god of time- be it Aka, Akatosh, or another such offshoot- loses control of the flow of time, and thus the normal progression of time goes completely out the window and it can wander in all directions for all durations. While similar ideas can be employed in other fictional rulesets, the Dragon Break itself doesn't seem as widely applicable as it's made out to be.


      In any case, less a Dragon Break so much as timeline splits that didn't, well, split entirely cleanly. While such an event never happens, of course, as an example, it'd be like if a section of the Gerudo Desert in TP (i.e. the Child timeline) was underwater when none of the rest of this version of Hyrule was.

      Time was somewhat malleable in Ocarina of Time. what with needing to complete one half of the Spirit Temple in each era. I dunno if the Adult Era initially had Nabooru kidnapped; now I feel like in order for that to happen you have to go back and make it happen. Or maybe it's like the Song of Storms paradox- where it HAS happened- just you haven't experienced it yet. I dunno.

      We initially can't enter the Spirit Temple as an adult, so there's no way to verify if Nabooru is actually kidnapped yet; but the SoS situation again demonstrates that predestination will occur where possible, so it's safe to assume she is. We then return to childhood, meet her for the first time, acquire the Silver Gauntlets, and then witness her capture, thus setting up when we eventually free her from said capture as an adult.
      Black Velvet Inferno

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Setras ().