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    My Take on The Great Skyward Sword Timeline Split - Causing TWO Goddess Swords, Fi's Return, BoTW, Ghirahim's Equivalent, and More!
    • Hello everyone, today I will be proposing to you all my take on the supposed Skyward Sword Timeline Split. This is my second theory I have written here, and perhaps I might make a youtube video on it one day. This theory does go against the first one I posted on here, as it also explains a possible Breath of the Wild timeline placement that is not the same as what I thought in my first theory. I will also use a Zelda theory video to help further explain my point on the Sheikah's influence in the technology later down in the theory, so credit to NintendoBlackCrisis and Croton for their work! Anyway, here is an excerpt from my previous theory that does support this current one:
      Display Spoiler


      NoSkinnedKoopa wrote:

      ...The Dark Intelopers that would later become the Twili were sealed away early in the timeline after Skyward Sword when the timeline was STILL unified. That means the Twili/Dark Intelopers exist in any alternate reality after Ocarina of Time. So it's possible for Nintendo to make a game revolving around another Twilight Invasion in any other of the timelines. Who's to say also just because Link never met Linebeck in any of the other timelines, that he doesn't exist? What I'm trying to get at is some of the events from other Zelda games could happen in timelines other than their original. So regardless of my theory, maybe Breath of the Wild doesn't take place as the re-unification of the timelines, but in a new timeline in which ALL of those events happened subsequently, one after the other. And that my friends, now to support my belief, can happen in my theorized timeline.
      That was a side theory I added in in regard to a possible fourth Ocarina of Time timeline split as well as ANY new timeline split that Breath of the Wild call fall into. That “side theory” will be utilized a lot more in my new theory that I am proposing, in which the final events of Skyward Sword cause a new timeline in which Breath of the Wild will fall into, along with explaining things in that timeline and the others. Spoilers ahead for those who haven’t played the games I will mention, mainly Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild.

      So for those that aren’t aware of the main theoretical concept, allow me to explain, (Skyward Sword spoilers)
      Display Spoiler
      In the final events of Skyward Sword, Link is able to wish on the Triforce, left for him by the Goddess Hylia, for the eradication of the Demon King Demise. The wish comes true and peace is brought. However, Demise’s servant, Ghirahim, kidnaps Zelda and brings her to past way before Demise was eradicated as another attempt to revive him completely. Ultimately, Link follows Ghirahim back into the past and defeats him, but during that fight most of Zelda’s power was used to revive Demise of the past. Link then has to also fight Demise of the past and defeats him as well. In his last breath, he curses Link and Zelda’s descendants to fight incarnations of his hatred for all time. Link places the Master Sword in a pedestal in the past, and everyone returns to their own time with the Master Sword also present in the present, the original time where Demise was eradicated with a wish to the Triforce. Now, the timeline split is supposedly created right there. Since the present timeline had Demise defeated under the circumstances being Link and Zelda’s whole adventure in their time period. And the past is altered because Demise was killed a lot earlier before Link and Zelda were even born, changing that timeline’s course.
      So, we have two timelines: Demise Defeated in the Past, and Demise Defeated in the Present.

      Now, I will state my thesis for my theory, provide an image of how the timeline could look, and then after theorize the differences that each timeline has. For sake of typed discussion, I’ll label Demise Defeated in the Past as “DDET” (Demise ‘Defeated Earlier’ Timeline) and label Demise Defeated in the Present as “DDLT” (Demise ‘Defeated Later’ Timeline). My Thesis, or “Theory” is the DDET is the start of the timeline where Demise was defeated in the past that then leads into Minish Cap and after with the timeline we all know and love that will again separate into three timelines due to the split of Ocarina of Time. Whereas the DDLT is the start of a new timeline with that begins with the main adventure of Skyward Sword where Demise was later defeated in the present, and then eventually leading into Breath of the Wild. I made a quick mockup of how the timeline would look under this possibility:
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      Zoom in, kinda small :waggle:

      DDET Explanations

      How the DDET affects Minish Cap and the explanation of the Two Swords
      Display Spoiler
      I’ll start with the differences in the DDET and what will become of them and the timeline, and after I’ll do the same with the DDLT. Upon Demise being defeated in the past, this changes the course for quite a few things. Firstly, Skyloft has no reason to remain in the sky to the protect the Triforce since Demise has already been defeated. I theorize Skyloft came down a lot earlier, and the kingdom of Hyrule to be established a lot earlier too. As well as the Link and Zelda that would eventually be born for the events of Skyward Sword do not have an epic quest… or do they? (More on that in a bit) There would also be two legendary blades since the Master Sword was ALREADY placed in the Sealed Temple right after the final battle with Demise but also because the Master Sword was brought from the future, the non-upgraded Goddess Sword in the Statue of the Goddess also STILL remains. I believe this “other extra” Goddess Sword to become the Picori Blade, given to the Hero of Men from the Minish Cap prologue. Sound crazy? It’s not! The Goddess Hylia (either reincarnated as Zelda or not) in this timeline had a different fate so she entrusted this blade to the Minish. They were also said to be in the sky, but I believe they were on a floating island we never got to see. But just like the people of Skyloft, the Minish eventually came down and gave the Hero of Men access to this sword as well as the Light Force, just as the Minish Cap prologue foretells. The Hero of Men could be the Link that in the other timeline is known as the Hero of the Sky in Skyward Sword, however in this timeline since he is born on the surface due to Skyloft coming down earlier and Hyrule being established earlier, he could be the Hero of Men! And on that hero’s quest, the sword was known as or upgraded to the Picori Blade that is used in the Minish Cap, which we know is later upgraded to the Four Sword in that game to fight Vaati.


      The Ghirahim Equivalent
      Display Spoiler
      Remember from Skyward Sword, Ghirahim was fully utilized by Demise of the Past and we know that his usefulness wore out after Demise was defeated. HOWEVER, that was Ghirahim of the Present utilized by Demise of the Past, so what about Ghirahim of the PAST?!? Well I believe that Ghirahim, or the spirit of him, or the spirit that will eventually become him, was instead incarnated as Vaati. Evidence of this not only comes from their similar looks, but also their goal to achieve a greater power with later, the help of Demise/Ganon. Even though Vaati wasn’t seen with an evil companion from the start, we can later see a villain team up with him alongside Ganon in Four Swords Adventures. Also, remember in this timeline Demise was already gone, and Vaati had a different role to play since the Kingdom was established earlier, which means his parallel birth with Ghirahim of the DDLT would be around the era of Minish Cap.


      Lanayru Technology Never Utilized
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      Another thing to mention about this timeline, is the explanation of the lack of very advanced technology within Minish Cap and onwards. Remember, I am proposing that the events of Skyward Sword didn’t happen before Minish Cap with the exception of Link defeating Demise in the Past. So, this means that the rediscovery of the Lanayru Ancient Technology never came to be, which is why we don’t see it in any other Zelda game except Breath of the Wild. So, the timeshift stones in the region either became far buried, disappeared, somehow just never found, or a different unknown fate since Demise was killed a lot earlier, butterfly-affecting the technology’s creation, placement, or what made it become “ancient” in the first place. Either way, I am just saying Demise’s earlier death and Hyrule’s earlier establishment affected the rediscovery of the Lanayru technology we saw in Skyward Sword.


      DDLT Explanations

      A Stronger Hyrule Establishment
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      Now for the differences and explanation of the DDLT. Now in this timeline, everything is pretty straight forward with all events in Skyward Sword at the start, with of course cutting out Link going back into the past and defeating Demise earlier. Not saying that didn’t happen, but Link and the gang did come back to their original timeline even though the past was altered. Now of course, after that final cutscene with Link and Zelda, what happened? Well, I believe they obviously created the Kingdom of Hyrule WITH some significant differences than of the other Kingdom’s establishment in the DDET. Firstly, this Hyrule had stronger involvement in its religion. By this, I mean a lot more Goddess Statues across Hyrule for ALL to pray to. This comes from Skyward Sword’s Link and Zelda’s experience with continuously praying and interacting with them throughout their adventure, which indefinitely aided their quests. That is why we later see them scattered across Hyrule in Breath of the Wild, which remember, I believe to be after Skyward Sword in this new timeline.


      How the Sheikah Utilized the Lanayru Technology
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      Secondly, the opportunity for extreme technological advancement. Link of course made it known to the others his experience with the Timeshift Stones and Lanayru technology, so the technology was excavated and brought to Hyrule. And as we know, became strongly utilized and improved by the Sheikah. Check out this theory that supports this specific point and the next on a greater scale: (credit to NintendoBlackCrisis)



      The Rise of the Sheikah
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      Now, how exactly did the Sheikah have such a great presence in Hyrule prior to Breath of the Wild? In the other Zelda games they were so rare! Well the reason for that is Zelda from Skyward Sword. Her relationship with Impa was so important to her, that she must have promoted the Sheikah as a whole to greater standard and wanted several protectors amongst the land. In the other Zelda games, Impa was more of a nanny or a housemaid. Even in Ocarina of Time, the relationship with Impa and Zelda wasn’t as “emotional” as in Skyward Sword. So anyway, the Sheikah evolved and multiplied thanks to Zelda’s positive influence and as previously stated, improved and upgraded the Lanayru technology. This explains the prologue for Breath of the Wild.


      Fi's Return
      Display Spoiler
      How about Fi’s return later in Breath of the Wild? Well this one isn’t so simple. At the end of Skyward Sword, Link thrusted the Master Sword into its pedestal in the Past. That was in the DDET, however, the Master Sword also appeared in the Present when Link and the gang returned to their own time, in the DDLT. If there is a timeline split, (or regardless) this is actually a time paradox if you really think about it. Apparently, the Master Sword copied itself to another timeline. My assumption is that the Gate of Time’s time travel technology was connected to the pedestal of the Master Sword (The Fruit of Life for the Thunder Dragon was before Demise was defeated in the Past), combined with the Master Sword’s Holy power, allowed the Master Sword to transcend time and also appear in the other reality/timeline. ANYWAY, this either allowed a duplication for Fi, or she chose to follow the Master Sword that would be set in the reality/timeline that of the Link and Zelda she knew, and would be able to “stop her eternal slumber” and help their descendants later down the road if they needed it, which did happen! And it is implied that Demise was able to finally escape the Master Sword and take on the form of Calamity Ganon, which would of course affect Fi’s slumber. I theorize from this that in a Breath of the Wild direct sequel, we would see Fi take a physical form again.


      Final Point: Bridging Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild Together (Important!)
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      For my final point; Explaining how the DDLT would even work bridging Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild. This is one of the more important points since there are a lot of historical requirements for anything being before Breath of the Wild. Allow me to quote myself once again,

      "...The Dark Intelopers that would later become the Twili were sealed away early in the timeline after Skyward Sword when the timeline was STILL unified. That means the Twili/Dark Intelopers exist in any alternate reality after Ocarina of Time. So it's possible for Nintendo to make a game revolving around another Twilight Invasion in any other of the timelines. Who's to say also just because Link never met Linebeck in any of the other timelines, that he doesn't exist? What I'm trying to get at is some of the events from other Zelda games could happen in timelines other than their original. So regardless of my theory, maybe Breath of the Wild doesn't take place as the re-unification of the timelines, but in a new timeline in which ALL of those events happened subsequently, one after the other. And that my friends, now to support my belief, can happen in my theorized timeline."

      So, to tie that in with this specific theory, I’m saying that there would be a lot of games and historical events taking place in between Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild in the DDLT. Some could be retelling or re-imagining of previous Zelda lore/games redone altogether subsequently as ways to fit in with a timeline containing Breath of the Wild. (Since Breath of the Wild has elements from all of the former timelines.) Some could also be brand new as well! This makes sure that the “Ganon appearing time and time again” quote and others will make sense and fit in with this timeline! This, my friends, also accomplishes a soft reboot of the series without taking away from the original timelines, while still having Skyward Sword at the beginning, and the opportunity to keep newer Zelda games under one timeline. Which, seems like Nintendo wants to do and utilizing this whole theory (if they haven’t already) would be one way to do it! :mastahsword:
    • That's a lot of text. Simple explanation is SS is one big pre-destination paradox/causality loop. There's only 1 timeline. It's said repeatedly in SS (especially at the beginning) that this legend (the one we are playing) will fill in the gaps of the Legend the Skyloftians know. All that was missing was Link and Zelda playing their parts. Evidence of the pre-destination paradox comes from old Impa having Zelda's goddess bracelet, when we first enter the sealed temple. From Impa's POV, she's already lived to see Demise smited in the past but hasn't seen him (the Imprisoned) die in her future.


      Think Terminator 1, for pre-destination example. It starts with Skynet losing the war, so they send a terminator back to the 80s to kill John Connor. The leader of the humans. John Connor sends Kyle Reese back to protect his mother, Sarah. Kyle tells Sarah about the rise of the machines, judgement day and Skynet. Kyle and Sarah rock the casbah and Sarah is impregnated with John. The terminator is destroyed but his arm and computer chip are recovered and experimented on by Cyberdyne. Cyberdyne who in 10 years would created Skynet.

      See the problem? In an attempt to change history, Skynet created both itself and it's own nemesis. But without time travel, neither could exist.


      As for Ghirahim of the past, he never resurrected after being sealed or he died with Demise when Link killed Demise. Recall, Ghirahim was among the demons sealed in the Earth by Hylia. Which can be seen in the intro video and drawings on the wall in the giant circle where the Imprisoned is.


      See the pointy eared elf to Demise's right in both pictures? He was with Demise as they attacked the humans and sealed with him after Hylia won the war. Present Ghirahim is likely free to because of the weakend seal and Demise's dark power growing over the thousands of years.


      The post was edited 1 time, last by AllStarNemesis ().

    • Really good theory. Except there are some obvious flaws.
      1. If SS split by that logic. Then there would be three branches. DDET, DDLT, and DDTCPT (Defeated Demise Twice Changed Present Timeline).
      2. Link and Zelda would have to stay in the past with Past SS Impa in order for DDET to happen.
      3. Same as 2 for DDLT. But that Link and Zelda would have to stay in the present, after Zelda awakens from her crystal stasis, with Link having to somehow manage to keep Ghirahim from taking Zelda back to the past, in order for DDLT to happen.
      4. Lastly, if this theory were true, then that would mean that SS canonically, doesn't actually have a proper continuity to it, with all other games taking place in DT-like logic "what-if" timelines, while the canon ending has nothing after it.
      Anyways, other than, it's not a bad theory, it's pretty well thought and creative. I like it. But I'm just saying that I can't really agree with this due to those four issues. Number 4 especially. Being that there are games that were made after SS, and that SS was a prequel game, something has to come after it's full canonical ending where Link and Zelda arrive in a changed present, altered by their actions in the past.

      I might post my own take on this timeline idea. But not now. Maybe sometime in the future when I give this more thought. But I will say that I found this idea interesting.
    • PJCLink wrote:

      Really good theory. Except there are some obvious flaws.
      1. If SS split by that logic. Then there would be three branches. DDET, DDLT, and DDTCPT (Defeated Demise Twice Changed Present Timeline).
      2. Link and Zelda would have to stay in the past with Past SS Impa in order for DDET to happen.
      3. Same as 2 for DDLT. But that Link and Zelda would have to stay in the present, after Zelda awakens from her crystal stasis, with Link having to somehow manage to keep Ghirahim from taking Zelda back to the past, in order for DDLT to happen.
      4. Lastly, if this theory were true, then that would mean that SS canonically, doesn't actually have a proper continuity to it, with all other games taking place in DT-like logic "what-if" timelines, while the canon ending has nothing after it.

      Okay,
      1. Please explain this third branch. (DDTCPT)*
      2. They actually don't because their ancestors are on Skyloft so they would eventually be born one way or another, just this time on the surface as I said.
      3. At the end, Zelda and Link return to their own time intact, not being affected by the new Past. (With the exception of the Master Sword being there)*
      4. Yes unfortunately, that is the case. As I said, Nintendo could insert newer games / add in timeline events to help explain this. I mean, Breath of the Wild's existence and supposedly beyond is "to completely change everything we know about Zelda" anyway.

      Wait, I might answer my own question for the DDTCPT. So you're telling me that the three branches are Demise being Defeated in the Past, Demise being Eradicated in the Present with no time travel immediately after, and Demise being Defeated Twice; which is Link, Zelda, and Groose returning to their "apparent-no changes" Present after defeating Demise in the Past which also explains why the Master Sword is there?!? That's just ...iffy. ~

      Well now that I think about it, this all makes sense. Skyward Sword's continuity is complicated and not well done. I still do approve, believe, and want this split to happen even with this realization. However, Nintendo should step out and help it make sense. I'm talking about a Skyward Sword HD remake, that overrides the previous Skyward Sword with more content. Similar to the situation with Metroid Zero Mission with Metroid on NES, a remake that creates new canon with explaining and retcon-ing certain things. I mean, Skyward Sword was originally supposed to have a way more in depth story, but many of those story elements were removed by Nintendo because it wasn't "simple enough." ...Yeah, Skyward Sword might just need a total remake, and maybe so it could also fit in with traditional controls as well. Yeah, now this is a different topic lol :dazed:
    • Allow me to explain DDTCPT and what I meant. What meant by Demise Defeated Twice was in Link's personal experience. I meant that in this timeline, Link had defeated Demise Twice. The first time in the present, and then the past. Then came back to a changed and altered present that he created by defeating Demise in the past. This is the game ends canonically.

      So the timeline would like something like this:

      |-----------------/>WW|PH>ST
      |--/>MC>FS>OoT|MM>TP>FSA
      |-/---------------\>ALttP|OoX|LA>ALBW|TFH>TLoZ|TAoL
      |SS>?
      |-\---------------------/>?
      |--\>???>???>???>BotW>?
      |-----------------------\>?

      I added two extra timelines split from BotW as there three ending technically. One timeline where Link prevailed against Ganon without the memories of his past. One where he failed again. And one where prevailed with his memories.

      The top timelines is the DDET. Where Link regardless of whether or not he beat Demise in the present, he beat him in past, and stayed with Zelda. The Bottom Timelines are the DDLT. Where Link defeated Demise in the present and successfully stopped Ghirahim from taking Zelda into the past. Which resulted in Link and Zelda having no reason to go back in time, therefore they both stay. And finally my addition, the DDTCPT is the middle timeline. Where Link defeated Demise twice indefinitely, both in the present and in the past. But then, because he left the past, to go back into the present, he arrived in a changed/altered present paradox where Demise is still sealed in Master Sword while the isle of the Goddess is already descended as though Link somehow still beat Demise in the present.

      Yes, I know it's confusing. But that's how it happened in the game. Time travel is always a complicated thing. Nobody ever just understands it exactly.

      Anyways, I will do my own take this timeline, following by my own placements. But I still have to work out what will go where in my exact version following by my own take and logic of things. I will post it in the Headcanons soon once I've figured things out. But anyways, I hope I at least cleared up some confusion here.

      And finally, yes, I do agree with you on that SS does need a total remake following by the same story, but with a lot more added to it. Like more potential of a possible split. Similar to BotW where Link's decisions and actions effect how the story ends. Making all three scenarios canonically possible. I think that would be interesting.
    • Wow, that is really interesting. I, too, believe that the timeline splits in SS and place BotW on one of those splits with the known timeline on the other. The thing is, we're completely reversed with what happens on which timeline. My reasoning is that, in the DDET, the tech in Lanayru would be in much better and more salvageable condition, meaning that the Sheikah could retain and use that technology to make shrines, guardians, divine beasts, and the like, whereas in the DDLT, that technology is already mostly lost to time and can only even be used with timeshift stones. Also, Hylia is dead and reincarnated into Zelda in the DDLT, but in the DDET, she could survive to communicate with Link through goddess statues and possibly with Zelda in that dream. It also dodges Fi's "eternal slumber" because that would have happened in a different timeline.

      Also, for ease of communication, I'd recommend renaming the DDET and DDLT to just ET and LT respectively.
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