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    Wind Waker's ending is dumb and so are the king and Tetra.
    • GregariousTree wrote:

      So the Triforce's powers have been grossly exaggerated then? That's hardly better.

      I'm mostly with gamtos here - I think the ending of WW hits the right emotional notes and is a mostly fine ending, but the King was still being selfish and shortsighted. He wasn't erasing the mistakes of the past for the kids sake; they weren't their mistakes. Everyone's like, "Oh, Old Hyrule had to die so that the past doesn't keep repeating." But Old Hyrule did die. It's not like if the land came back suddenly everyone would revert to a Hyrulean culture. Old Hyrule as a civilization died when it's people did. We're talking about land here. He had the opportunity to give everyone land to settle in, expand, and develop into whatever culture/civilization they wanted. Instead he screwed them over to sate his own ego. So instead of providing for them, he ensured that they had to go on a dangerous voyage to find a new land instead, and he still didn't protect them from seeking their heritage. Kind of a flop.
      No, there's a precedent that suggests the Triforce alone cannot destroy Ganondorf when Hylia along with an army originating from each of the five tribes could not end the curse which is proven again when the chosen hero (SS Link) with the Triforce could not simply wish away Demise. It's you guys who are over-exaggerating the power of the Triforce and taking the information given about it at face-value.
    • Demise wrote:

      Though this is not the end. My hate... never perishes. It is born anew in a cycle with no end! I will rise again! Those like you... Those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero... They are eternally bound to this curse. An incarnation of my hatred shall ever follow your kind, dooming them to wander a blood-soaked sea of darkness for all time!

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Cornelius Fudge ().

    • Fal Cie wrote:

      It’s not that the Triforce power is exaggerated, it’s just Daphnes couldn’t wish to end the curse on any level if he has no idea it exists.

      And what right would he have to decide to drain Hyrule and change everyone’s lifestyle? Not one person was asking to get rid of the sea and give them land.
      Link and Tetra did want more land. They went looking for it. Found it. Named it after the old land. I would assume that the population of New Hyrule means that plenty of people agreed and followed them to a more spacious place to live. Heck, the Deku Tree expressly wanted more land. He even had a plan to get it.

      And I wasn't saying the king should have uprooted everybody then and there. I don't think gamtos necessarily is either.

      gamtos wrote:

      Points aside, I will say one thing; why not just keep the stasis they had for centuries?
      What right did the king have to forever destroy what could have been a great answer to overpopulation/desire for more land? What right did he have to take away the choice for these kids about their futures? He did it for his conscience. He talked about sowing the seeds of the future, but then went and burned half of the seeds available without even asking the kids what they wanted. You say nobody was asking to get rid of the Great Sea? Nobody was asked, period. The king acted, and he took options away. That's dumb.

      To get kind of meta, I also dislike the ending cause I think it led to a creative dead end in the AT. New Hyrule isn't particularly interesting to me, and it's barely even a Zelda game. All of the lore and icons of the series have been removed from that timeline. There is no Triforce, there is no Master Sword, there is no Hyrule. There's almost nothing unique to Zelda in ST. Where do you go from that? You could almost just slap a different skin on ST and make it not a Zelda game.


      Cornelius Fudge wrote:

      GregariousTree wrote:

      So the Triforce's powers have been grossly exaggerated then? That's hardly better.

      I'm mostly with gamtos here - I think the ending of WW hits the right emotional notes and is a mostly fine ending, but the King was still being selfish and shortsighted. He wasn't erasing the mistakes of the past for the kids sake; they weren't their mistakes. Everyone's like, "Oh, Old Hyrule had to die so that the past doesn't keep repeating." But Old Hyrule did die. It's not like if the land came back suddenly everyone would revert to a Hyrulean culture. Old Hyrule as a civilization died when it's people did. We're talking about land here. He had the opportunity to give everyone land to settle in, expand, and develop into whatever culture/civilization they wanted. Instead he screwed them over to sate his own ego. So instead of providing for them, he ensured that they had to go on a dangerous voyage to find a new land instead, and he still didn't protect them from seeking their heritage. Kind of a flop.
      No, there's a precedent that suggests the Triforce alone cannot destroy Ganondorf when Hylia along with an army originating from each of the five tribes could not end the curse which is proven again when the chosen hero (SS Link) with the Triforce could not simply wish away Demise. It's you guys who are over-exaggerating the power of the Triforce and taking the information given about it at face-value.
      That's really not the precedent you think it is. It's been firmly established that only a mortal can use the Triforce, so it's irrelevant that Hylia never used it. She can't. And it's not proven that Link couldn't have wished away Demise. He just... didn't. The game doesn't ever make a big deal about how he literally could not, iirc. I admit it has been some time since I've played the game.

      And I admit to taking the information given about the Triforce at face value, which is different from over-exaggerating the power of the Triforce and also kind of an odd criticism. If I'm taking the info about the Triforce at face value, I'm by definition not exaggerating. And if we're allowed to not take information at face value and think whatever we want about lore, then I can make a theory about anything. The Triforce has been stated multiple times to be grant whatever wish it's wielder desires. That has never been contradicted and has been shown in effect at least a few times. ALttP straight-up resurrects folks. I'm gonna take that at face-value. Your example of someone one time not using to defeat Demise isn't all that much evidence.
      A dark chase requires a silent hound, and deep roots are not reached by the frost.
    • GregariousTree wrote:

      That's really not the precedent you think it is. It's been firmly established that only a mortal can use the Triforce, so it's irrelevant that Hylia never used it. She can't. And it's not proven that Link couldn't have wished away Demise. He just... didn't. The game doesn't ever make a big deal about how he literally could not, iirc. I admit it has been some time since I've played the game.
      And I admit to taking the information given about the Triforce at face value, which is different from over-exaggerating the power of the Triforce and also kind of an odd criticism. If I'm taking the info about the Triforce at face value, I'm by definition not exaggerating. And if we're allowed to not take information at face value and think whatever we want about lore, then I can make a theory about anything. The Triforce has been stated multiple times to be grant whatever wish it's wielder desires. That has never been contradicted and has been shown in effect at least a few times. ALttP straight-up resurrects folks. I'm gonna take that at face-value. Your example of someone one time not using to defeat Demise isn't all that much evidence.
      This is true, I wasn't even considering that. However, there are other things to consider here:

      1. The chosen hero is always the one who is needed to effectively defeat Ganondorf. In Ocarina of Time, instead of seizing the Triforce and simply wishing away Ganondorf, the whole purpose of Zelda's plan in using the spiritual stones was never to obtain the Triforce and merely wish away all of their problems, but to instead seize control of the Master Sword. Let's not even forget to consider that nowhere is it stated that the Triforce alone can beat Ganondorf whereas the Master Sword is heavily relied upon for that very purpose.

      2. Triforce is the essence of the Goddess's power. When the Hero of Time was not present, instead of using their very omnipotent power to put a stop to Ganondorf's rampage, all they could do was drown Hyrule so that Ganondorf could not get ahold of it. Why didn't they use their power to put an end to Ganondorf when the Triforce is derived from their power?

      3. Ganondorf is portrayed as a God. This is exemplified by Ganondorf's portrayal in Twilight Princess where he toppled the true Twilight Princess and was worshipped by Zant who was the King of his own realm. A god toppling another god with a mere wish is highly debatable.

      Yes, you are exaggerating because instead of taking into consideration of implications suggesting otherwise, you choose to take things at face-value, make audacious interpretations of these statements to conclude that the Triforce can actually vanquish Ganondorf with a single wish. That is literally an exaggeration of things that have been stated and shown to us. If the Triforce could put a stop to the curse, then why wasn't Demise defeated with the Triforce? Instead, Link had to go back in time to actually defeat Demise and even that didn't put an end to the curse. If the Goddess couldn't put a stop to Ganondorf, why would Daphnes rely on their power which failed to put a stop to Ganondorf?

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Cornelius Fudge ().

    • Cornelius Fudge wrote:

      1. The chosen hero is always the one who is needed to effectively defeat Ganondorf. In Ocarina of Time, instead of seizing the Triforce and simply wishing away Ganondorf, the whole purpose of Zelda's plan in using the spiritual stones was never to obtain the Triforce and merely wish away all of their problems, but to instead seize control of the Master Sword. Let's not even forget to consider that nowhere is it stated that the Triforce alone can beat Ganondorf whereas the Master Sword is heavily relied upon for that very purpose.

      Sorry, this is just not true. Zelda's plan was literally to obtain the Triforce before Ganondorf did. There's not even a mention of the Master Sword until you see it for the first time. Zelda and Link were trying to get the Triforce before Ganon did, and he outsmarted them. Again, not relevant.

      Cornelius Fudge wrote:

      2. Triforce is the essence of the Goddess's power. When the Hero of Time was not present, instead of using their very omnipotent power to put a stop to Ganondorf's rampage, all they could do was drown Hyrule so that Ganondorf could not get ahold of it. Why didn't they use their power to put an end to Ganondorf when the Triforce is derived from their power?

      This is a fair point, I'll give you that. Two responses though:

      1. The Triforce and the Goddesses do work differently. The Triforce simply grants the wishes of a mortal who possesses it. The Goddesses have agency and seem not to be super into meddling into the affairs of mortals. I think it's equally plausible that they simply want the mortals to work things out for themselves, rather than they are literally incapable of destroying Ganondorf.

      2. As far as I'm aware, we don't actually know it was the Golden Goddesses who flooded Hyrule. The game just says the people prayed to "the gods." Even within the game of WW itself, we meet several beings who identify as gods, two of whom seem to have great control of the weather. Hylia herself is a goddess not involved in the creation of the Triforce.

      Cornelius Fudge wrote:

      3. Ganondorf is portrayed as a God. This is exemplified by Ganondorf's portrayal in Twilight Princess where he toppled the true Twilight Princess and was worshipped by Zant who was the King of his own realm. A god toppling another god with a mere wish is highly debatable.
      Ganondorf is portrayed as a god... to Zant. As in, Zant worshipped him. He's defo super freaking powerful, but TP states in the scene with the sages that it's because of the Triforce of Power that's so magically buff. They explicitly state, "By some divine prank, he too had been blessed with the chosen power of the gods." The game does not imply that he is literally a god on par with the Golden Trio. It states the opposite - his power is derived from them.
      A dark chase requires a silent hound, and deep roots are not reached by the frost.
    • Link did wish Demise dead and succeeded. It is very much within the realm of possibility.
      Demise is on par with Hylia, and it's Hylia's powers that allow Zelda to seal Ganon again and again.
      A full Triforce against a Ganon that doesn't have the ToP? No contest.

      Link very much destroyed Demise via Triforce Wish, just not retroactively. If you stab someone to death and travel back in time, they may be alive but that doesn't mean you didn't kill them.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by gamtos ().

    • Cornelius Fudge wrote:

      gamtos wrote:

      The Triforce is the power of the Goddess
      Beg your pardon?
      What do you mean? The Triforce is the essence of the Goddess. There is no way the Triforce can be derived from the Goddess and yet have power that is beyond their comprehension, that simply isn't possible.
      Okay are you not pluralizing Godess correctly or do you somehow believe the Triforce = Hylia?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by gamtos ().