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    Wind Waker's ending is dumb and so are the king and Tetra.
    • MVS wrote:

      @gamtos I don't know if you are just trolling

      Why do people find it so hard to believe I have genuine strong opinions on this? Like, the tone might not be all that serious but I'm baffled otherwise.

      or trying to be funny

      I don't "try", I am gamtos.

      but first of all Hyrule isn't the western world with the same ethics and shit. In their world Link is probably considered an adult, and why wouldn't the king rely on him since he is the hero of winds?

      Alright, let's disregard the
      (sorry I just really thought the words "ethics and shit" were really funny, like I'm imagining my philosophy professor having a fit right now)
      Daphnes Nohanssen Hyrule had a moment of literal omnipotence. The most easily identifiable root problem of his entire country is standing two feet away from him. Like, any problem Hyrule had that you can think of, it's Ganon, and if it's not Ganon, it's still kinda Ganon.

      Ganon who fought the Hero of Time and came back anyways Ganon.
      Ganon whose subsequent havoc caused apocalyptic divine intervention Ganon.
      Ganon who also survived that Ganon.

      Link is really reliable but just the hero, some light arrows and a sword are, historically speaking, not a cure, just a bandaid. Heck, the Hero of Time could only weaken Ganon; it was the sages and Zelda that managed to seal him away.

      So if Daphnes knew anything about the history of the Hero of Time, relying on Link to fix the issue entirely would be very much repeating old mistakes.

      And since he made that wish he knew that Link (and Zelda) would prevail anyway so what is the problem?

      Well, he knew they'd have "hope" for a brighter future. I know this is nitpicking but really, two things here:
      • This is extremely vague. Like, if I were an evil genie, this wish would get granted in the least helpful way possible.
      • Tetra proceeds to get kidnapped in the next game and Link has to risk his life again to save her.
      Aside from that, Zelda gets backhanded by a man who's easily four times her size during the final fight. That part is inevitable regardless of how well the player fights. Even if that incredibly vague Triforce wish was protecting them from literal death, it certainly didn't protect Link or Zelda from harm.
      Harm which was in my opinion entirely unnecessary.

      MVS wrote:

      Why are you so obsessed with taking back the old Hyrule? It's not like there is overpopulation going on above anyway.
      My country lies below the sea level. When the waves rise into the sky, a great flood punishes my lands, drowning the soil. And when the clouds climb into the dark of night, a torrential rain suffocates the air. No matter where it comes, water carries the same thing... wet socks. But a dry ending to the Wind Waker would bring something other than suffering and ruin. I coveted that ending, I suppose.

      Basically put, old Hyrule seemed pretty neat, while the Great Sea sucks to the point Tetra wants to go off to find a new Hyrule, and Link is convinced enough to come along.

      MVS wrote:

      There is probably a lot of cultural and religious reasons behind his decision as well.
      I don't mean to tread on the king's

      but as long as we're not being told about those reasons, obviously the ending feels dumb.

      MVS wrote:

      I don't f***ing know, I just give you possible reasons.
      Hey, more power to you for it, but I'm not looking for potential ways to explain away the dumb parts of the ending. I'm here to say the ending just feels dumb to me and my reasons why.

      Guinea wrote:

      Dude saw his chance, took it, and spat out the first thing that came to mind.
      A hundred years under the ocean and a hastily blurted bad wish is all it amounted to. Still feels dumb.

      Especially if I was scared about Ganondorf being so close, my blurted wish would be more along the lines of "OhGodsoftheTriforce, HearmypraywhateverKILL GANONDORF!!!".

      Partial signature credit to Eternalegend

      The post was edited 2 times, last by gamtos ().

    • Old Hyrule was by all appearances depopulated (outside of Ganon and his henchmen), so unflooding it would be a massive "f*ck you" to the people living basically contentedly on the Great Sea islands, all so Daphnes could continue clinging to a kingdom that had long since stopped being his in anything but title. You wanna talk massive dick moves, that would most definitely qualify.

      Instead, Daphnes made the decision to stop clinging to the past and let the people of said islands exist on their own terms. I'd say that's the better, more mature call.

      And about New Hyrule- if you'll recall, Tetra was the one who originally wanted to found "the next Hyrule," but Daphnes explained to her that if she was to found such a country, it should be something new. Ultimately, both ideas came to fruition- the new kingdom shares the old one's name and a few mild aesthetic similarities, but also has its own distinct geography, pantheon, technology, etc. Thus the past is honored, but the new kingdom is allowed to be its own thing. It's really not a problem in any capacity.
    • Hmm...

      Well. Let's just agree that I'm usually right most of the time, and disagree about agreeing if we should just not agree that perhaps, deep down underneath the sea, the wish was actually so much more awesome than we give it credit for:

      Ganondorf, Ganon, King of all Doom and Death, had finally been defeated.

      Hyrule is gone. Therefore, the curse is gone. Wait a sec, I'm so sleepy. The curse remains. I think. Ugh man.

      Anyway, about Bellum and Maladus:

      Hyrule isn't the only place where evil demons run rampant. The entire world of Zelda has monsters. Daphne should've said:

      I wish that every demon across time and space were destroyed!!!

      Huh. Now that I think about it, that should've been the damn wish!

      Sorry if I seem kinda... douchey. I'm going to count Anouki and fall asleep.
      :ghirahim: :cucco: :look: :tingle: :moon:

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Guinea ().

    • Setras wrote:

      Old Hyrule was by all appearances depopulated (outside of Ganon and his henchmen), so unflooding it would be a massive "f*ck you" to the people living basically contentedly on the Great Sea islands, all so Daphnes could continue clinging to a kingdom that had long since stopped being his in anything but title. You wanna talk massive dick moves, that would most definitely qualify.

      Instead, Daphnes made the decision to stop clinging to the past and let the people of said islands exist on their own terms. I'd say that's the better, more mature call.

      And about New Hyrule- if you'll recall, Tetra was the one who originally wanted to found "the next Hyrule," but Daphnes explained to her that if she was to found such a country, it should be something new. Ultimately, both ideas came to fruition- the new kingdom shares the old one's name and a few mild aesthetic similarities, but also has its own distinct geography, pantheon, technology, etc. Thus the past is honored, but the new kingdom is allowed to be its own thing. It's really not a problem in any capacity.

      Dangit, stop being wrong in a way that makes it sound like I'm wrong.

      Ergh fiiiiiiine I suppose SOME PEOPLE may appreciate the shitty Great Sea.

      Tetra certainly wasn't one of them, hating it more than Link loves his family.

      Points aside, I will say one thing; why not just keep the stasis they had for centuries?

      Partial signature credit to Eternalegend
    • I want part of the problem with the status is it still left the world vulnerable hence why he wanted to permantky wipe it away ?
      I think the question is what is the triforce capable of? The big issue is evil-not just gandorf acquiring the power of the triforce sobehy not wish away

      Evil

      Or the triforce itself ?

      And wrlll...neither makes fir interesting material...maybe ?
    • As far as the stasis, I always saw it as Daphnes quitting Hyrule cold turkey. Again, unflooding the world would just screw over everyone living on the sea and charge them with rebuilding a kingdom that was never theirs, but as long as the old kingdom was down there and Daphnes was still (in some fashion) alive, there would always be that temptation to bring it back. Like he said, he and Ganondorf "have lived bound to Hyrule," hence why he opted to get rid of the place and go down with(out?) the ship, eliminating essentially any memory of the place and any chance of it coming back and bringing its old problems with it.

      As for why no one wishes to get rid of Ganondorf, in real life, we don't have game plots that way. In-universe, this is usually probably seen as unnecessary (since he's already dead by the time the Triforce is claimed and wished on, the exception being WW where again he was slated for removal alongside Daphnes and Old Hyrule anyway). It might also be impossible as well, depending on where you stand on the issue of if the Triforce can affect time and be used to alter the past or plan for future eventualities. We only ever really tend to see wishes made that produce effects in the present.
    • I’ll go along with the gamtos opposition and say Daphnes would do more harm than good by immediately changing the entire seas way of life rather than gradually adapting them like the Deku Tree plans.

      The Triforce wishes may have been short sighted, but it grants wishes in the heart, not the brain. The heart wants what it wants and Daphnes just vocalized it.

      Also gamtos, whyre you not using the Japanese translation like a good theoryboi.

      So in summation: Down with this sort of thing!
    • The Triforce has been used to wish away Demise in SS so I don't see why it couldn't do the same to Ganondorf. Only thing I can think of was that Demise wasn't at full power since he was still the imprisoned which made him weak enough to be killed, but that's just an assumption.



      Tru Universe|Cat Midna Avatar and Signature by The Twilight Princess. Check out her art thread here!
    • When King Hyrule talks to the Triforce, it sounds like he thinks he's got a direct line to the gods. Of course, this is not true. The Triforce is omnipotent, but neutral and not necessarily a manifestation of any divine being's will. But nevertheless, he treats the Triforce with this reverence. It brings to mind the Great Deku Tree's assertion that the Triforce had become the foundation for Hyrule's providence.

      So, what I'm getting at is that you could make a good case that in certain games, the Triforce itself is an object of worship. Daphnes isn't going to use the Triforce like it's a genie because he thinks of it as being more than that. This belief is likely augmented by the curious manner in which the Triforce grants wishes. It doesn't always do exactly what you think it will do. For example, in ALttP, instead of simply giving Ganon control of Hyrule (after he wished to conquer Hyrule), it gave him the Dark World and the opportunity to conquer Hyrule.

      There's a chance that you could say, "Kill Ganondorf forever." and that the Triforce would wait for him to die of old age. After all, genies are known to be tricksters.
      :cookiemonster:

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Happy Person ().

    • gamtos wrote:

      MVS wrote:

      What? First of all, the third "wish" wasn't a wish, but more of a "you deserve to drown". Something I interpreted as outside the wish.
      That's even worse! King Hyrule could destroy the cause of the flood right there and then, and instead... lets the kids fight while he refloods Hyrule???

      THIS IS A SHITTY WISH.
      Pretty sure that is impossible. The Triforce is the power of the Goddess and the best they could do was actually drown all of Hyrule along with Ganondorf. Outright killing him is literally outside of the scope of their power. Honestly, if you're going to argue that, then the history of Zelda is irrelevant as a whole because the Triforce could've been used to terminate Demise leading to no reincarnation of Zelda, Link, or Ganondorf.
    • So the Triforce's powers have been grossly exaggerated then? That's hardly better.

      I'm mostly with gamtos here - I think the ending of WW hits the right emotional notes and is a mostly fine ending, but the King was still being selfish and shortsighted. He wasn't erasing the mistakes of the past for the kids sake; they weren't their mistakes. Everyone's like, "Oh, Old Hyrule had to die so that the past doesn't keep repeating." But Old Hyrule did die. It's not like if the land came back suddenly everyone would revert to a Hyrulean culture. Old Hyrule as a civilization died when it's people did. We're talking about land here. He had the opportunity to give everyone land to settle in, expand, and develop into whatever culture/civilization they wanted. Instead he screwed them over to sate his own ego. So instead of providing for them, he ensured that they had to go on a dangerous voyage to find a new land instead, and he still didn't protect them from seeking their heritage. Kind of a flop.
      A dark chase requires a silent hound, and deep roots are not reached by the frost.
    • Keyaki wrote:

      Anyway, that was hilarious to read. And yea, it is a little weird.


      I think one reason why Nohanson wanted Link and Zelda to find a new place to call Hyrule is to leave the mistakes of the old Hyrule behind. Yes, the old Hyrule is submerged underwater. But it's still there. Maybe Nohanson thought that sailing away from the location of the submerged Hyrule was a way of "putting it to rest" and finally leaving the past and its mistakes behind.
      The ending is in a sense weird, but Nintendo wanted a story that appealed to kids and older fans. When I was young I didn't nitpick WW's ending, I thought it was a bit depressing, despite its apparent optimism, but that was it. Kids aren't as inclined to analyse every small detail of a story- they tend to reserve that for analysing other things.

      You could nitpick a lot of things in the Zelda franchise, hell even Ocarina's ending doesn't make a lot of sense at first glance. Link went back in time, Ganondorf's now alive and well, and the evil beneath the Shadow Temple is also back.

      What I did find more amusing was the irony in Ganondorf saying he didn't intend to kill Link, and then drawing two swords on him. I was kind of like, "Ummm... what? Lying ba*****
      "This is the tale of an ancient land of lush forests and verdant meadows. A land blessed by the Goddesses where the powers of light and shadow exist in perfect balance. This is the story of the kingdom of Hyrule, of a king who sought to control the power of the gods, and of a boy without a fairy. A boy whose struggle against the shadow became a legend, riding upon the Winds of Time..."

      A novelization of The Legend of Zelda- Ocarina of Time (Complete & Revised)

      Click here for the audiobook edition.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Evran_Speer ().