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    Breath of the Wild's Timeline Placement Theories v2 [READ OP BEFORE POSTING]
    • Editing this post to make it the default OP because Burning Boards is trash.

      Big Daddy Biggles wrote:

      Hey guys. So I just realized how far past due the current timelines thread is (usually close a thread at 8000 and it is currently sitting just over 13,000 lol).

      Soooooo figured it was time to refresh the thread and start anew!

      Couple of quick things before we get this party started:

      1) This thread will be full of spoilers so if you haven't played much of the game, be careful reading forward.

      2) This thread can get a bit heated with back and forth discussion which is fine, but please remain civil. There will be no tolerance for people attacking each other or being rude.

      3) Please try to keep larger posts neat and spoilered if possible (this includes big quotes, large walls of texts, etc.) It keeps things looking nice and makes it easier for people to load pages who have crappy internet.


      Here are some of the references from the previous thread's OP (and a quick link to that thread if you need it - Breath of the Wild's Timeline Placement Theories (SPOILERS) [READ OP BEFORE POSTING] :(

      Tri.Midna wrote:

      Useful links and quotes:


      Yamikawa wrote:

      Various translations by the most awesome member we have on the boards. /bows
      Display Spoiler

      Daphnes Nohansen Quote:
      Display Spoiler


      Yamikawa wrote:

      That thing you see in the trailer has been established to be remains of a carriage with a flag mast behind it which is why it appears to be a ship's part.


      I know I'm being very persistent in this aspect and I apologize if I offend anyone, but post-TWW placement doesn't seem to plausible to begin with.

      The reason? The Hyrule King at the end of TWW touched the Triforce and asked the Goddesses to wipe out Hyrule along with Ganondorf.

      Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule wrote:

      トライフォースの神々よ 我は望む!
      Gods of the Triforce: this is my wish!

      未来を! この子らに、希望ある 未来をあたえよ!
      I want a future! Grant these children a future with hope!

      過去の地ハイラルを消し去り この子らの未来に光明を!!
      Erase the land of the past, Hyrule and grant hope to these childrens' future!

      これで、我らの因縁も終わろう・・・ ガノンドロフよ、ハイラルと共に 沈むがよい!!!
      Our fates have come to an end... Ganondorf! Sink along with Hyrule!!!
      That's why it stars to "rain" from the "ceiling": because the bubble protecting Hyrule has been cancelled and it's getting flooded.
      The Hyrule King wants Link and Tetra to be freed of the chains binding them to Hyrule, and to the past.

      So Hyrule is gone by the end of TWW, even if for some reason the sea was "un-flooded" then there wouldn't be anything left behind of Hyrule.

      The geography doesn't match either: the Hyrule in TWW had only a new Hyrule Castle where the MS was kept at and Ganon's tower close by.

      So in my opinion post-TWW isn't too plausible because the wish of the Hyrule King would be moot.

      Time will tell, though.
      The word Twillight in the memory:
      Display Spoiler

      Yamikawa wrote:

      @Therad


      黄昏 (tasogare) is defined as "sunset, dusk, twilight".

      This is how the "twilight" was referred as within TP as well.

      As for the seas part it might be part of the dialogue I'm unable to properly catch due to the heroes' talk overlapping Zelda's voice.

      I agree that it feels unlikely for two teams to have made up that part, but my understanding has been that NoE works off the NoA version so I guess the wording has to be there.
      Zelda says Ganons given up:
      Display Spoiler

      Yamikawa wrote:

      I see a lot of talk about Zelda saying that Ganon has "given up reincarnation" but that sounds like a mistranlation by NoA.


      Here is the original:

      Zelda wrote:

      ガノン。。。 はるか太古に生まれ 幾度滅ばせようとも復活を繰り返す 憎悪と怨念の権化
      Ganon... Born a long, long time ago... Goes on ressurecting regardless of how many times he's destroyed... An incarnation of hatred and grudge...
      復活を諦めない妄念から暴走した姿。。。
      This form comes from his conviction of not giving up on ressurection running wild...
      So in here Zelda merely says that Ganon HASN'T given up and is convinced he will ressurect again and again: the Demon Beast form is the result of that conviction of his running wild.
      One would think after so much experience in game translation/localizing they would do a good job but looks like someone mistook the form of the verb "give up" here and didn't realize it was "not give up".

      Reincarnation is being born anew in another form (like how Hylia reincarnated as Zelda in SS) but here we're talking about ressurection/revival which is simply coming back from the dead.
      More on Twiligt:
      Display Spoiler

      Yamikawa wrote:

      I see, so someone mistook the noun "tasogare" (黄昏) with the verb "tasogareru" (黄昏れる).


      It's true that it can mean "fade into dusk", "to decline" but in this case it's just the noun "twilight/dusk".

      I agree that this reference seems to be implictly mean Twilight Princess but it could mean something else as well.
      Malice:
      Display Spoiler

      Yamikawa wrote:

      @Mirren "malice" is correct since it's one of the translations for the word 怨念 (onnen) which is used constantly through the Japanese version to describe Ganon: 怨念の塊 (onnen no katamari) "a mass of grudge / malice", 怨念と憎悪の権化 (onnnen to zoo no gonge) "incarnation of grudge / malice and hatred".

      So malice is correct but I don't know why they bother to capitalize it when it's just treated as a mere noun in the Japanese version, it's true that Beast Ganon is said to be grudge / malice as well but that doesn't make it anything special least a new concept altogether.
      More on Malice and grudge:
      Display Spoiler

      Yamikawa wrote:

      @Mirren

      It doesn't call it energy but it's indeed grudge / malice.

      Zelda wrote:

      ガノンは全身を怨念で覆っています。。。このままではどんな攻撃も受け付けないでしょう
      Ganon's covering his whole body in grudge / malice... In this current state no attacks will be able to harm him...

      Demise describes Ganon:
      Display Spoiler

      Yamikawa wrote:

      It does. Demise did use the very same words Zelda uses to describe Ganon.


      Demise wrote:

      我の憎悪は... 魔族の呪いは... 悠久の時の果てまで輪廻を描く...
      (My hatred... The curse of the Demon Tribe... They shall go on reincarnating until the end of Time Eternal.)


      お前達は... 女神の血と 勇者の魂を持つ者共は永久に この呪縛から逃れられぬ!
      (You.. You who possess the blood of the Goddess and the soul of hero shall...forever be unable to escape from this curse!)


      この憎悪と怨念が... その権化が貴様らと共に 血塗られた闇の海を永遠にもがき彷徨い続けるのだ!!
      (This hatred, this grudge...its incarnations shall go on wriggling and wandering along you within a "Dark Sea" stained with your blood forever!)

      Knighting scene, several early revisions:
      Display Spoiler

      1:
      Display Spoiler

      Yamikawa wrote:

      @Instrutilus I managed to transcribe and translate the japanese dialogue of the knighting scene.


      Zelda and champions wrote:

      Zelda
      退魔の剣に選ばれしハイラルの勇者よ
      Hero of Hyrule chosen by the demon-bane sword

      そのたゆまぬ努力と結実せし剣技を認め
      By recognizing steady effort and successful swordsmanship

      女神ハイリアの名において祝福を授けん
      I grant you blessing in the name of the Goddess Hylia

      空を舞い 時を巡り 黄昏に染まろうとも
      Even if you dance the skies, you travel through time or you are dyed in twilight

      結ばれし剣は勇者の魂と共に
      The bonded blade shall always be along the hero's soul

      さらなる力がそなたとそして退魔の剣に宿らんことを
      I pray so that further power lodges in you and your demon-bane sword

      はるか遠き過去に生まれし退魔の剣よ
      Demon-bane sword born in a distant past

      Daruk
      やれやれ
      Oh boy

      前途多難みてえだな
      She’s acting like it’s a grim prospect

      Zelda
      勇者と共にハイラルの祝福を補う者よ
      You who bring blessings to Hyrule alongside the hero

      Revali
      何言ってんの
      You’re one to TALK

      Zelda
      女神ハイリアの名において祝福を授けよう
      I grant you blessings in the name of Goddess Hylia

      Revali
      「御付きの騎士任命の記念に太古の伝説真似てみろってはやし立てたのあんただろ?
      Weren’t YOU the one who suggested her to “Imitate the ancient legend to celebrate his assignment as your escort knight”?

      Zelda
      海を越え 神の作れし黄金の を求めん時
      You cross the seas when you seek the gold made by the gods

      Revali
      とはいえ 彼に対する態度に関してはあの姫と気が合いそうだよ 僕
      But, nevertheless... When it comes to how to deal with him... I think I’d agree with the Princess...

      Zelda
      そなたの姿は常に勇者と共にあり
      May you be alongside the hero

      退魔の剣とハイラルの勇者にさらなる力が宿らんことを
      I pray so that further power lodges into the Demon-bane sword and the hero of Hyrule

      Urbosa
      しょうがないよ 御ひい様にとっちゃ あいつの存在は。。。
      It can’t he helped. The guy standing there is like...

      そう コンプレックスの象徴みたいなもんだから
      Is like he was a symbol of the princess’ complexes...

      2:
      Display Spoiler

      Yamikawa wrote:

      @'darkoffspring I'm still working on it and I wanted to consult a japanese friend who's also a Zelda fan to see if he could help me with a couple of odd words.

      So take into account that it's not finished yet.

      What I've got insofar is the following:

      Zelda & Champions wrote:

      Zelda
      退魔の剣に選ばれしハイラルの勇者よ
      Hero of Hyrule chosen by the demon-bane sword

      そのたゆまぬ努力と結実せし剣技を認め
      By recognizing steady effort and successful swordsmanship

      女神ハイリアの名において祝福を授けん
      I grant you blessing in the name of the Goddess Hylia

      空を舞い 時を巡り 黄昏に染まろうとも
      Even if you dance the skies, travel through time or are stained in twilight

      結ばれし剣は勇者の魂と共に
      The linked blade shall always be along the hero's soul

      さらなる力がそなたとそして退魔の剣に宿らんことを
      I pray so that further power lodges in you and your demon-bane sword

      はるか遠き過去に生まれし退魔の剣よ
      Demon-bane sword born in a distant past

      Daruk
      やれやれ
      Oh boy

      前途多難みてえだな
      She’s acting like it’s a grim prospect

      Zelda
      勇者と共にハイラルの祝福を補う者よ
      You who bring blessings to Hyrule alongside the hero

      Revali
      何言ってんの
      You’re one to TALK

      Zelda
      女神ハイリアの名において祝福を授けよう
      I grant you blessings in the name of Goddess Hylia

      Revali
      [御付きの騎士任命の記念に太古の伝説真似てみろ]ってはやし立てたのあんただろ?
      Weren’t YOU the one who suggested her to “Imitate the ancient legend to celebrate his assignment as your escort knight”?

      Zelda
      ふにふえ?神の作れし黄金の()を求めん時
      (???) When you seek the golden (power?) the gods made
      English version: ["Over the seas of time and distance, when we knew the golden power of the goddess"]

      Revali
      とはいえ 彼に対する態度に関してはあの姫と気が合いそうだよ 僕
      But, nevertheless... When it comes to how she treats him... I think I’d agree with the Princess...

      Zelda
      そなたの姿は常に勇者と共にあり
      Maybe you be alongside the hero

      退魔の剣とハイラルの勇者にさらなる力をが宿らんことを
      I pray so that further power lodges into the Demon-bane sword and the hero of Hyrule

      Urbosa
      しょうがないよ 御ひい様にとっちゃ あいつの存在は。。。
      It can’t he helped. The guy standing there is like...

      そう コンプレックスの象徴みたいなもんだから
      Is like he was a symbol of the princess’ complexes...

      3:
      Display Spoiler

      Yamikawa wrote:

      @blubee Well, it indeed is now that I listen to it several times.

      Thanks for the help.

      So the whole thing would end up like this:

      Zelda & champions wrote:

      Zelda
      退魔の剣に選ばれしハイラルの勇者よ
      Hero of Hyrule chosen by the demon-bane sword

      そのたゆまぬ努力と結実せし剣技を認め
      By recognizing steady effort and successful swordsmanship

      女神ハイリアの名において祝福を授けん
      I grant you blessing in the name of the Goddess Hylia

      空を舞い 時を巡り 黄昏に染まろうとも
      Even if you dance the skies, you travel through time or you are dyed in twilight

      結ばれし剣は勇者の魂と共に
      The bonded blade shall always be along the hero's soul

      さらなる力がそなたとそして退魔の剣に宿らんことを
      I pray so that further power lodges in you and your demon-bane sword

      はるか遠き過去に生まれし退魔の剣よ
      Demon-bane sword born in a distant past

      Daruk
      やれやれ
      Oh boy

      前途多難みてえだな
      She’s acting like it’s a grim prospect

      Zelda
      勇者と共にハイラルの祝福を補う者よ
      You who bring blessings to Hyrule alongside the hero

      Revali
      何言ってんの
      You’re one to TALK

      Zelda
      女神ハイリアの名において祝福を授けよう
      I grant you blessings in the name of Goddess Hylia

      Revali
      「御付きの騎士任命の記念に太古の伝説真似てみろってはやし立てたのあんただろ?
      Weren’t YOU the one who suggested her to “Imitate the ancient legend to celebrate his assignment as your escort knight”?

      Zelda
      海を越え 神の作れし黄金の を求めん時
      You cross the seas when you seek the gold made by the gods

      Revali
      とはいえ 彼に対する態度に関してはあの姫と気が合いそうだよ 僕
      But, nevertheless... When it comes to how to deal with him... I think I’d agree with the Princess...

      Zelda
      そなたの姿は常に勇者と共にあり
      May you be alongside the hero

      退魔の剣とハイラルの勇者にさらなる力が宿らんことを
      I pray so that further power lodges into the Demon-bane sword and the hero of Hyrule

      Urbosa
      しょうがないよ 御ひい様にとっちゃ あいつの存在は。。。
      It can’t he helped. The guy standing there is like...

      そう コンプレックスの象徴みたいなもんだから
      Is like he was a symbol of the princess’ complexes...
      So "cross the seas" exists but it's nothing like "cross the seas of time and distance" that the English version had.Nevertheless I still am unsure what to make of her words and if they really point to CT or not: I don't think it's a reference to LA either.
      4:
      Display Spoiler

      Yamikawa wrote:

      @'darkoffspring I'm still working on it and I wanted to consult a japanese friend who's also a Zelda fan to see if he could help me with a couple of odd words.

      So take into account that it's not finished yet.

      What I've got insofar is the following:

      Zelda & Champions wrote:

      Zelda
      退魔の剣に選ばれしハイラルの勇者よ
      Hero of Hyrule chosen by the demon-bane sword

      そのたゆまぬ努力と結実せし剣技を認め
      By recognizing steady effort and successful swordsmanship

      女神ハイリアの名において祝福を授けん
      I grant you blessing in the name of the Goddess Hylia

      空を舞い 時を巡り 黄昏に染まろうとも
      Even if you dance the skies, travel through time or are stained in twilight

      結ばれし剣は勇者の魂と共に
      The linked blade shall always be along the hero's soul

      さらなる力がそなたとそして退魔の剣に宿らんことを
      I pray so that further power lodges in you and your demon-bane sword

      はるか遠き過去に生まれし退魔の剣よ
      Demon-bane sword born in a distant past

      Daruk
      やれやれ
      Oh boy

      前途多難みてえだな
      She’s acting like it’s a grim prospect

      Zelda
      勇者と共にハイラルの祝福を補う者よ
      You who bring blessings to Hyrule alongside the hero

      Revali
      何言ってんの
      You’re one to TALK

      Zelda
      女神ハイリアの名において祝福を授けよう
      I grant you blessings in the name of Goddess Hylia

      Revali
      [御付きの騎士任命の記念に太古の伝説真似てみろ]ってはやし立てたのあんただろ?
      Weren’t YOU the one who suggested her to “Imitate the ancient legend to celebrate his assignment as your escort knight”?

      Zelda
      ふにふえ?神の作れし黄金の()を求めん時
      (???) When you seek the golden (power?) the gods made
      English version: ["Over the seas of time and distance, when we knew the golden power of the goddess"]

      Revali
      とはいえ 彼に対する態度に関してはあの姫と気が合いそうだよ 僕
      But, nevertheless... When it comes to how she treats him... I think I’d agree with the Princess...

      Zelda
      そなたの姿は常に勇者と共にあり
      Maybe you be alongside the hero

      退魔の剣とハイラルの勇者にさらなる力をが宿らんことを
      I pray so that further power lodges into the Demon-bane sword and the hero of Hyrule

      Urbosa
      しょうがないよ 御ひい様にとっちゃ あいつの存在は。。。
      It can’t he helped. The guy standing there is like...

      そう コンプレックスの象徴みたいなもんだから
      Is like he was a symbol of the princess’ complexes...

      5:
      Display Spoiler

      Yamikawa wrote:

      @blubee Well, it indeed is now that I listen to it several times.

      Thanks for the help.

      So the whole thing would end up like this:

      Zelda & champions wrote:

      Zelda
      退魔の剣に選ばれしハイラルの勇者よ
      Hero of Hyrule chosen by the demon-bane sword

      そのたゆまぬ努力と結実せし剣技を認め
      By recognizing steady effort and successful swordsmanship

      女神ハイリアの名において祝福を授けん
      I grant you blessing in the name of the Goddess Hylia

      空を舞い 時を巡り 黄昏に染まろうとも
      Even if you dance the skies, you travel through time or you are dyed in twilight

      結ばれし剣は勇者の魂と共に
      The bonded blade shall always be along the hero's soul

      さらなる力がそなたとそして退魔の剣に宿らんことを
      I pray so that further power lodges in you and your demon-bane sword

      はるか遠き過去に生まれし退魔の剣よ
      Demon-bane sword born in a distant past

      Daruk
      やれやれ
      Oh boy

      前途多難みてえだな
      She’s acting like it’s a grim prospect

      Zelda
      勇者と共にハイラルの祝福を補う者よ
      You who bring blessings to Hyrule alongside the hero

      Revali
      何言ってんの
      You’re one to TALK

      Zelda
      女神ハイリアの名において祝福を授けよう
      I grant you blessings in the name of Goddess Hylia

      Revali
      「御付きの騎士任命の記念に太古の伝説真似てみろってはやし立てたのあんただろ?
      Weren’t YOU the one who suggested her to “Imitate the ancient legend to celebrate his assignment as your escort knight”?

      Zelda
      海を越え 神の作れし黄金の を求めん時
      You cross the seas when you seek the gold made by the gods

      Revali
      とはいえ 彼に対する態度に関してはあの姫と気が合いそうだよ 僕
      But, nevertheless... When it comes to how to deal with him... I think I’d agree with the Princess...

      Zelda
      そなたの姿は常に勇者と共にあり
      May you be alongside the hero

      退魔の剣とハイラルの勇者にさらなる力が宿らんことを
      I pray so that further power lodges into the Demon-bane sword and the hero of Hyrule

      Urbosa
      しょうがないよ 御ひい様にとっちゃ あいつの存在は。。。
      It can’t he helped. The guy standing there is like...

      そう コンプレックスの象徴みたいなもんだから
      Is like he was a symbol of the princess’ complexes...
      So "cross the seas" exists but it's nothing like "cross the seas of time and distance" that the English version had.Nevertheless I still am unsure what to make of her words and if they really point to CT or not: I don't think it's a reference to LA either.
      6:
      Display Spoiler

      Yamikawa wrote:

      @'darkoffspring I'm still working on it and I wanted to consult a japanese friend who's also a Zelda fan to see if he could help me with a couple of odd words.

      So take into account that it's not finished yet.

      What I've got insofar is the following:

      Zelda & Champions wrote:

      Zelda
      退魔の剣に選ばれしハイラルの勇者よ
      Hero of Hyrule chosen by the demon-bane sword

      そのたゆまぬ努力と結実せし剣技を認め
      By recognizing steady effort and successful swordsmanship

      女神ハイリアの名において祝福を授けん
      I grant you blessing in the name of the Goddess Hylia

      空を舞い 時を巡り 黄昏に染まろうとも
      Even if you dance the skies, travel through time or are stained in twilight

      結ばれし剣は勇者の魂と共に
      The linked blade shall always be along the hero's soul

      さらなる力がそなたとそして退魔の剣に宿らんことを
      I pray so that further power lodges in you and your demon-bane sword

      はるか遠き過去に生まれし退魔の剣よ
      Demon-bane sword born in a distant past

      Daruk
      やれやれ
      Oh boy

      前途多難みてえだな
      She’s acting like it’s a grim prospect

      Zelda
      勇者と共にハイラルの祝福を補う者よ
      You who bring blessings to Hyrule alongside the hero

      Revali
      何言ってんの
      You’re one to TALK

      Zelda
      女神ハイリアの名において祝福を授けよう
      I grant you blessings in the name of Goddess Hylia

      Revali
      [御付きの騎士任命の記念に太古の伝説真似てみろ]ってはやし立てたのあんただろ?
      Weren’t YOU the one who suggested her to “Imitate the ancient legend to celebrate his assignment as your escort knight”?

      Zelda
      ふにふえ?神の作れし黄金の()を求めん時
      (???) When you seek the golden (power?) the gods made
      English version: ["Over the seas of time and distance, when we knew the golden power of the goddess"]

      Revali
      とはいえ 彼に対する態度に関してはあの姫と気が合いそうだよ 僕
      But, nevertheless... When it comes to how she treats him... I think I’d agree with the Princess...

      Zelda
      そなたの姿は常に勇者と共にあり
      Maybe you be alongside the hero

      退魔の剣とハイラルの勇者にさらなる力をが宿らんことを
      I pray so that further power lodges into the Demon-bane sword and the hero of Hyrule

      Urbosa
      しょうがないよ 御ひい様にとっちゃ あいつの存在は。。。
      It can’t he helped. The guy standing there is like...

      そう コンプレックスの象徴みたいなもんだから
      Is like he was a symbol of the princess’ complexes...

      Knighting scene, The last revision:
      Display Spoiler

      Yamikawa wrote:

      @blubee Well, it indeed is now that I listen to it several times.

      Thanks for the help.

      So the whole thing would end up like this:

      Zelda & champions wrote:

      Zelda
      退魔の剣に選ばれしハイラルの勇者よ
      Hero of Hyrule chosen by the demon-bane sword

      そのたゆまぬ努力と結実せし剣技を認め
      By recognizing steady effort and successful swordsmanship

      女神ハイリアの名において祝福を授けん
      I grant you blessing in the name of the Goddess Hylia

      空を舞い 時を巡り 黄昏に染まろうとも
      Even if you dance the skies, you travel through time or you are dyed in twilight

      結ばれし剣は勇者の魂と共に
      The bonded blade shall always be along the hero's soul

      さらなる力がそなたとそして退魔の剣に宿らんことを
      I pray so that further power lodges in you and your demon-bane sword

      はるか遠き過去に生まれし退魔の剣よ
      Demon-bane sword born in a distant past

      Daruk
      やれやれ
      Oh boy

      前途多難みてえだな
      She’s acting like it’s a grim prospect

      Zelda
      勇者と共にハイラルの祝福を補う者よ
      You who bring blessings to Hyrule alongside the hero

      Revali
      何言ってんの
      You’re one to TALK

      Zelda
      女神ハイリアの名において祝福を授けよう
      I grant you blessings in the name of Goddess Hylia

      Revali
      「御付きの騎士任命の記念に太古の伝説真似てみろってはやし立てたのあんただろ?
      Weren’t YOU the one who suggested her to “Imitate the ancient legend to celebrate his assignment as your escort knight”?

      Zelda
      海を越え 神の作れし黄金の を求めん時
      You cross the seas when you seek the gold made by the gods

      Revali
      とはいえ 彼に対する態度に関してはあの姫と気が合いそうだよ 僕
      But, nevertheless... When it comes to how to deal with him... I think I’d agree with the Princess...

      Zelda
      そなたの姿は常に勇者と共にあり
      May you be alongside the hero

      退魔の剣とハイラルの勇者にさらなる力が宿らんことを
      I pray so that further power lodges into the Demon-bane sword and the hero of Hyrule

      Urbosa
      しょうがないよ 御ひい様にとっちゃ あいつの存在は。。。
      It can’t he helped. The guy standing there is like...

      そう コンプレックスの象徴みたいなもんだから
      Is like he was a symbol of the princess’ complexes...
      So "cross the seas" exists but it's nothing like "cross the seas of time and distance" that the English version had.Nevertheless I still am unsure what to make of her words and if they really point to CT or not: I don't think it's a reference to LA either.
      The Goron Gor Coron and Impaz quotes from TP:
      Display Spoiler

      Yamikawa wrote:

      Well, let me check but I recall quotes being similar...


      Gor Coron wrote:

      それは、昔ハイラル王家に仕えてきた
      That's what a holy statue that a tribe that served
      ある一族だけが持っていた聖なる像ゴロ
      the Hyrule Royal Family in ancient times possessed, goro
      王家を裏で支えていた為 人里離れた場所に
      Since they supported the Royal Family from behind the scenes,
      ひっそりと暮らしていたが、長引く戦乱で
      they secretly lived in hidden villages, but I heard that they perished
      一族は滅んだと聞かされていたゴロ・・・
      due to the prolonging wars, goro...

      Impaz wrote:

      この村は 訳あって 王家に仕えた一族がThis was a hidden village that, due to some reasons,住んでいた隠れ里でしたが・・・was inhabited by a tribe that served the Royal Family yet...
      今は荒れ果て、あのような魔物がうろつくNow it's fallen into ruin, and it's become dangerous物騒な場所になってしまったのですsince monsters like those are roaming around here...


      The word inherited:
      Display Spoiler


      Yamikawa wrote:

      Zelda wrote:

      @Therad
      Here you have and the word it's "inherited"

      王家の姫が代々受け継ぐし厄災を封印する力。。。
      The power to seal the calamity which the royal family princess inherit generation after generation
      それは祈りによって目覚める聖なるもの
      It’s a sacred power that’s awoken by prayer
      そう聞かされて育ちました
      That’s what I’ve been told during my raising
      けれど。。。
      However
      母が言っていた身体を満たす霊力も
      The “spiritual strength” that fills your body, as Mother described it...
      祖母は耳にしたという精霊の声も
      And the “spirit voice” which Grandmother is said to have heard...
      何一つ
      I can’t...
      私には感じられない
      Feel any of those
      父には何度も叱られました
      Father has scolded me many times
      「それはお前は学者の真似事ばかりやっているからだ」と
      “That’s because you’re always pretending to be a scholar”
      でも。。。
      But
      幼い頃からどんなに頑張っても祈っても
      I’ve prayed and worked hard a lot ever since my childhood yet
      古代の神縁のこの地に縋ってすら
      And even if I cling on in this land related to the ancient Gods...
      聖なる力が私を訪う事が無かった
      The sacred power didn’t come to me
      教えてください
      Please tell me
      私には。。。何が足りないのですか?
      What… am I lacking?

      Revive and not Reborn or Reincarnated:
      Display Spoiler

      Yamikawa wrote:

      @Ygris
      I managed to find the text:

      Kass wrote:

      古の勇者の残せし言の葉
      The words the ancient hero left behind
      我 いつの日か蘇る 厄災に備えん
      I shall revive one day and ready for the calamity
      蒼き海に そびえ立つ岩
      The rocks towering in the azure seas
      17のとき 我が蓄えを 指し示す
      Will signal my store at the time of 17
      So it's simply "revive" and not "reborn" or "reincarnated".
      Kass quest:
      Display Spoiler


      Yamikawa wrote:

      @Ygris
      I searched for Cassieva / Kass quests, then narrowed down the name of the quest and then looked it up on YouTube. And from there I wrote it down.

      Regarding your question about "yomigaeru"

      甦る
      よみがえる
      yomigaeru
      to be resurrected, to be resuscitated, to be rehabilitated, to be revived, to be refreshed, to be restored, to be recalled (e.g. memories), to be brought back

      @PimpUigi
      There's a compilation of HE translations on its respective thread

      Nevertheless the page mostly describes all that's known about the Triforce and what happens to it in each game.

      In the WW section it wonders if it was destroyed / annihilated as a result of Daphnes' wish on it.

      It also says that it split after OoX and the pieces went to Ganon (said to be sealed as seen when Yuga unseals him in ALBW) and Zelda and Link
      Zora tablet about Ruto and that Nabooru reference:
      Display Spoiler

      Yamikawa wrote:

      Zora tablet about Ruto:

      King Drefan wrote:

      ゾーラ史 第5章
      Zora History, Chapter 5

      偉大なる祖ルト
      The great ancestor, Ruto

      ゾーラ王 ドレファン これに記す ——-
      The Zora King Drefan writes down the following:

      遥か昔…大厄災よりも 神獣 ヴァ・ルッタが造られし頃よりも 遥かな昔…
      A long, long time ago... In a distant past way before the great calamity and the creation of the Divine Beast Vah Rutta...

      ゾーラの王家に 1人の姫がいたという その名は ルト
      It’s said that there was a Zora royal family princess named Ruto

      一族の民に愛され ゾーラの守護神に仕える 見目麗しい活発な姫であったと伝えられている
      It’s told that she was a beautiful and active princess who was loved by the tribe’s citizens and server the Zora protector deity

      だが同じ時 世を支配せんと野望を抱く者が現れ ゾーラの里も彼の者が放つ災いに襲われた
      But around the same… A subject who had the ambition to rule the world appeared and the Zora Village was attacked by the calamity that the subject unleashed

      その時 ルトは賢者となり ハイラル王家の姫や勇者と共に 野望抱く者に立ち向かったという
      It is said that, then, Ruto became a sage and faced the ambitious subject alongside the Hyrule royal family princess and the hero

      その偉大なる功績は ゾーラは元より ハイラルの歴史にも 深く刻み込まれている
      That grand merit was not only deeply engraved in the history of the Zora but on the history of Hyrule as well,

      後の世で 厄災ガノンに立向かうべく造られた 神獣 ヴァ・ルッタはルトに肖り名づけられたのだ
      The Divine Beast Vah Rutta, built in a posterior age to face the Calamity Ganon, was named in honor of her

      そしてルッタの主に ゾーラの姫 我娘ミファーが選ばれたのも 運命が成した技なのかもしれぬ
      And the fact that my daughter, the princess of the Zora, Mifa, was chosen as the master of Rutta might have been something Fate decided
      And then the Nabooru reference:

      Urbosa wrote:

      ナボール。。。
      "Nabooru...

      神話に謳われる ゲルド族の賢者
      A Gerudo sage which appears in [our] legends..."

      その縁の名を頂いた あんたも 立派なゲルドよ
      "You [Naboris], who've inherited her name, are a great Gerudo as well"

      そうだろう?ナボリス
      "Isn't that the case, Naboris?"

      100年前 私らは あっさりと奴にやられちまった
      "We were so easily defeated 100 years ago..."

      けど もう負ける訳にはいかない
      “But we won’t lose again.”

      厄災ガノン
      “Calamity Ganon…

      伽話によれば あいつも元はゲルド族だ
      According to the fairy tales… It also was originally a Gerudo…”

      だから 私もあんたも 全力で奴に 立ち向かう
      “So that’s why… We’ll face it together with all of our strenght…”

      それが ゲルドの意地ってもんだろ?
      “I guess that’s the spirt of a Gerudo, right?”

      しっかりガノンを捉えていておくれ
      “Make sure to keep your marks on Ganon…”

      リンクが奴と戦う時 凄い一発を食らわらせてやろうじゃないか
      “When Link fights it let’s deliver one hell of a blow to the thing…”

      今から その瞬間が楽しみだよ
      “I’m SO looking forward to that, I really am!”



      Ygris wrote:

      Gorons!
      Display Spoiler

      We were talking about Gorons.




      We have Daruk (BotW) on top


      Darmani (M'sM) on the below (and not Darunia... By the way were is Darunia?)



      A baby goron, the Elder's son(M'sM) on the right?




      And last but not least... Gor Coron (TP) on the left.



      Ok, that's a very good point for the CT.

      Of course we can imagine he was important in some way in the DT like I've sayd before about Medli. But still...

      I just wonder where is Darunia? He must be there! And why two characters from M'M?

      Well... You know what? it's like BotW fit every where.... :tilt: :tilt: :tilt: :tilt:
      I start reconsidering a unified timeline once again.... :looney: :looney:


      Instrutilus wrote:

      The Zora Tablets, NoA version.
      Display Spoiler

      History of the Zora, Part One
      The Eternal Zora's Domain
      As told by King Dorephan

      The rains have blessed Lanayru since ancient times with and abundance of pure, clean water.

      Seeking a bounty of such water, the Zora gathered there. Thus, as the legends go, the domain was born 10,000 years ago.

      The land was also rich in ore, and so a unique form of stonemasonry was developed to create our new home.

      The domain is one giant sculpture, a feat of architecture that has drawn admirers the world over.

      Our great domain will ever stand as a hallmark of the esteemed artists who made it, an eternal symbol of the Zora pride.


      ---


      History of the Zora, Part Two
      A Reservoir of Hope
      As told by King Dorephan

      Once every 10 years, the Lanayru region experiences unusually heavy rainfall. The Zora River flooded every time.

      The tides damaged not only our domain but our people, washing away our poor souls and causing great suffering and disarray.

      The Zora king of that time, after seeking aid from the king of Hyrule, rode out to see what could be done.

      By joining the architectural genius of the Zora and Hyrule's technological prowess, East Reservoir Lake was swiftly built.

      Thanks to this fruitful partnership, Hyrule was no longer plagued by these devastating floods.

      In gratitude, the Zora king promised the king of Hyrule to manage the reservoir level and protect all of Hyrule from floods.

      Each Zora king since has kept that oath, spanning 10,000 years. That is why the reservoir signifies our bond with Hyrule.


      ---


      History of the Zora, Part Three
      Miracle of the White Scale
      As told by King Dorephan

      Our scholars say that in the distant past, Zora's Domain had a king with no special talent for the art of war.

      What he lacked in skill with a blade, he made up for in love for his people, and especially love for his queen.

      One day, news reached the king of a horde of monsters gathering in the Zodobon Highlands.

      The king steeled himself for war to protect his people, but the queen knew how ill suited for the task he was.

      Worried for his life, she wove one of her own scales into his armor, hoping that her love would protect him in battle.

      It seemed for a time that the tide of battle favored the Zora and that all would make it safely home.

      But the cunning Lizalfos general saw an opening and seized it, driving the king's forces into a corner.

      Just when the general's sword was ready to crash down upon the king, a miracle took place.

      An errant sunbeam reflected from the scale on his armor blinded the Lizalfos, stopping the deathblow from falling.

      This was the chance the king needed to rally his forces and turn the tide, taking down the general and securing victory.

      This came to be known as the Miracle of the White Scale, a scale that only female Zora possess.

      It was this miracle that began the tradition of Zora princesses crafting armor for their future husbands.


      ---


      History of the Zora, Part Four
      The Lightscale Trident
      As told by King Dorephan

      The queen and I were blessed with a daughter as lovely as a jewel. We named our princess...Mipha.

      To celebrate her birth, the smithy Dento presented Mipha with a gift: a mighty spear called the Lightscale Trident.

      Mipha grew into a bright girl and soon reached the age of receiving lessons from the royal family's order of knights.

      The whole of the royal guard adored her, especially Sergeant Seggin, who loved her as if she were his own kin.

      Under Seggin's instruction, Mipha honed her skills, and her radiance grew along with her skill with the Lightscale Trident.

      As a Champion, Mipha made her people proud. However, once the Great Calamity struck, she was never to return.

      All of Zora's Domain fell into misery. The merest thought of the princess was enough to overcome anyone with tears.

      As a way of offering her soul repose, they tried to send the Lightscale Trident drifting down the Zora River.

      But when they did, the trident began to glow, and Mipha's voice rang loud and clear for all Zora to hear:

      "The Lightscale Trident and I are one... Abandon your grief and know joy once again. Do not cry...just remember."

      And so, keeping to her request, on the day of the Great Calaimity...the day that Mipha passed from this world...

      the Zora venerate the Lightscale Trident and remember their brave princess.

      Such is the origin of the Champion Festival.



      ---


      History of the Zora, Part Five
      The Sage Princess Ruto
      As told by King Dorephan

      Long, long ago... In a past more distant than even the Great Calamity or the creation of the Divine Beast Vah Ruta...

      There was a Zora princess named Ruto.

      We know that she was an attendant to the Zora patron deity and that she was a fair and lively girl, beloved to all.

      Around that same time, an evil man with designs on ruling the world appeared, bringing disaster upon Zora's Domain.

      It is said that Ruto then awoke as a sage, facing this for alongside the princess of Hyrule and the hero of legend.

      Her achievements are remembered not only by the Zora, they are also forever etched in the history of Hyrule.

      The Divine Beast Vah Ruta, built ages later to face off against Calamity Ganon, was named in honor of Ruto.

      That the Zora princess-my sweet daughter Mipha-was chosen to pilot Ruta is surely the work of fate.


      ---


      History of the Zora, Part Six
      Divine Beast Vah Ruta
      As told by King Dorephan

      When the Divine Beast Vah Ruta was first discovered at Zora's Domain, my daughter Mipha hurried to see it.

      Those present that day say they saw an unusual sparkle of excitment in Mipha's normally calm eyes as she beheld Ruta.

      The princess spoke of the Divine Beast as she would a friend and was overjoyed when she was chosen to pilot Ruta.

      I thought nothing of it at the time, but given the events that followed, I now regret allowing this to happen.

      I have spent many years consumed by guilt. My dearest wish is that her soul will know peace. I pray for it every day.


      ---


      H---ory of the Zor-, Part S-ven
      The H-ro Who D-feat-d the Ly--l
      As T--d b- King Dorephan

      T--re was a time when the p--ple of the land were thre--ened by the dr--- beast Ly-e- who lived on Pl--mu- M--ntain.

      But one Hy---n drove th- beast back an- re--ored peace to the do--in.

      Th- Zora helm w-n in th-s fight i- no- north of --- in the r--ns near ---- L-ke.

      It re--s ther- to h--or the d--ds of the he-- L---.

      (Time has taken it's toll on this)


      ---


      History of the Zora, Addendum 1
      King Dorephan Stands His Ground

      Around 100 years after King Dorephan ascended to the throne, a stray Guardian crossed Upland Zorana into our domain.

      The Guardian seemed unstoppable. Our best soldiers' spears barely left a scratch on its metal hull.

      It was then that our King Dorephan, without a thought for his own safety, came out to face the Guardian himself.

      With supernatural strength, he lifted the Guardian and hurled it into a ravine.

      The impact of the fall left the Guardian in pieces, and it was never to trouble another Zora ever again.

      The citizens celebrated the king's valor. From then on, their trust and respect for him grew beyond compare.

      You can still see the scar he earned that day on his forehead-a token of his triumph.


      ---


      History of the Zora, Addendum 2
      Prince Sidon's Great Escape

      There was once a giant Octorok in Hateno Bay, large as a mountain, which terrorized the village's fishers.

      Hearing of their distress, Prince Sidon went forth to personally eliminate the offending Octorok.

      But this Octorok was a tricky beast. After the prince dodged one of the stones it spat, it inhaled him whole.

      Such had been the fate of many strong warriors who went to slay the Octorok. Not one had come back alive.

      Just as it seemed Prince Sidon would be counted among them, the giant Octorok twisted in pain.

      The tip of the silverscale spear pierced the Octorok's stomach from within, revealing itself as the source of the beast's agony.

      Incredibly, Prince Sidon had fought his way out by stabbing his spear over and over into the monster's stomach.

      Unable to bear the pain, the Octorok coughed up the prince and scrambled to escape.

      Ever since, the fisher of Hateno Bay have passed down this heroic tale: The Prince Who Slew the Fell Octorok


      ---


      Memoir of a Gifted Stonemason

      What an honor it was to receive a personal request from King Dorephan to craft a historical stone monument!

      I did not realize how much content he'd give me, though... It certainly exceeded the line limits of a single monument.

      I suppose I could have just shortened the text, but it felt wrong to tamper with our great king's words.

      Thankfully, I was able to split it all between seven monuments to ensure that every word was preserved.

      I have always prided myself on my ability to think outside the box. I am so very adaptable! And humble as well.

      While I was at it, I thought...why not add two of my own? And so I created one for King Dorephan and one for Prince Sidon.

      True, this is outside the scope of my commission... But I believe their triumphs deserve as much! But why stop at that...

      Why, indeed! My achievement surely deserves remembrance too. That is how a commission of one became 10.

      Of course, having increased the number of monuments, I had to find places for them all... That proved difficult.

      Still, it is worth it! So long as I remember to sign these monuments, my name will be remembered forever. As it should be.

      Instrutilus wrote:

      Why HoT is known in child timeline.
      Display Spoiler

      -wanders in-
      Majora's Mask opening

      ハイラルに伝わる 王家の伝説 そこに 一人の少年が 登場する
      A boy appears in the legends of the Royal Family told in Hyrule
      巨悪と戦い ハイラルを救ったのち彼は、伝説から 姿を消した・・・
      He vanished from the legends after fighting the gigantic evil and saving Hyrule...
      時をこえた戦いを終え 彼は 人知れず 旅に出た
      After the battle across time ended he departed into a secret journey
      冒険の終わりで 別れた かけがえのない 友を探す旅に・・・
      To search for his irreplaceable friend with whom he parted ways at the end of his adventures...
      So guys, guess which timeline knows of the legend of the Hero of Time and, in all likelihood, the Sages?-removes that little hindrance to the CT placement-
      Thank you to the wise and wonderful @Yamikawa, who provided the translation and confirmed that the vanished part is in reference to a person hiding from it, not that the legends disappeared.

      -wanders out-

      EnigmaFarce wrote:

      Importance of the Divine Prank, Zora Armor, and Ganondorf’s Insurgence
      Display Spoiler
      @cochramd
      This is a bit late (I had exams to prepare for), but here you go:
      “その昔、ハイラルの危機を救った 伝説の勇者が身につけていたとされる衣
      Clothes which the legendary hero which saved Hyrule from a crisis in past is considered to have worn”
      Admittedly, "devastating" isn't the right word here, perhaps something more like "wide-reaching" (as it encompassed all of Hyrule). But my point stands just as well. And again, you also have to assume an "atrocious evil" we know nothing about or have any indication exists. And this evil is almost certainly involved if not the cause of the crisis, or else I fail to see why "exorcising" this evil is the bow's greatest feat. After all, if this bow can exorcise terrible evils then I don't see why it wasn't used in the crisis that endangered all of Hyrule, and that isn't see as it's foremost achievement. And considering the Gorons know about it and considered relevant, despite the the event being ancient, it was probably important.And in the first place, it would require a bow that can exorcise atrocious evils. (Exorcise and the atrocious evil are from the Japanese translation)

      It was brought up, but I've argued before about the divine prank, and I don't see it as a problem. First, I want clarify that the whole reason this is happening is because Link's ToC caused the CT Triforce to split, because that's what both TP and HH imply.

      Hyrule Historia wrote:

      Carrying the proof of the Triforce of Power, Ganondorf acquired evil magic. This time axis’s Ganondorf, who thought the Triforce of the Sacred Realm was untouched, concluded there must have been some disturbance since Link returned home with the Triforce of Courage.

      Twilight Princess wrote:

      "The kind of absolute power that those chosen by the gods wield."

      "By some divine prank, he, too, had been blessed with the chosen power of the gods."
      Why do I think the fact Ganondorf was chosen by the gods is important? I mean, don't we all know that already? But see, that's the point though- Ganondorf wasn't chosen by the Gods:

      Zelda wrote:

      If the heart of the one who holds the sacred triangle has all three forces in balance, that one will gain the True Force to govern all.
      But, if that one's heart is not in balance, the Triforce will separate into three parts: Power, Wisdom and Courage.
      Only one part will remain for the one who touched the Triforce...the part representing the force that one most believes in.
      In other words, just because Ganondorf had the Triforce in the future, we are given no reason believe that he has it in the past when the Triforce splits. He was never chosen by the gods, the only reason he has at all in OoT is because he touched the Triforce. Before the divine prank became a thing we had no reason at all to presume that Ganondorf would have the ToP if someone else touched it.The fact that after all his effort, and all his plans foiled, he would just happen to be blessed by the gods and given the Triforce anyway on a silver platter is the divine prank.
      And this is only amplified for the Hylians, who for them it's completely impossible that Ganondorf would be able to acquire the Triforce through any other means (evil sorcerers and thieves, moreover, the king of thieves aren't blessed by the gods).

      And of course, the reason we should follow this interpretation is because any other will conflict with Majora's opening.
      Also, if we are following HH, then it should be noted Ganondorf somehow knows about both Link's ToC and his journey (from the quote above).
      Instrutilus pointed this out earlier, but the time spent before Link left Hyrule after coming back was not brief. And, by extension, the explanation probably wasn't brief. After all, if they were able to convince the king so easily and quickly, then why did Link stay so long? And in any case, if he spent a long time with Zelda, I doubt he would keep quite about his adventure that is detrimental to present.

      As for the Zora armor, we've been over this already; chosen hero is mistranslated by NoA, and on the contrary, the actual text implies the opposite.
      When my husband was alive, for the sake of the hero, he had a garment that had the power of the Zoras in it created.
      … There are clothes here which lodge the power of the Zora and which my husband made for the hero when he was alive.

      Could those be the clothes of the hero handed down by we Zora tribe…?
      They are the clothes of the hero, as in they belonged to and were worn by him, so it's impossible that it's TP Link.
      Also, as pointed out already (although admittedly I only skimmed over it) Ganondorf knows about the Triforce, so we already know the Royal Family can't keep secrets (in addition to this, we already know the GDT knew about the Triforce, and the other clan leaders probably knew as well, by virtue of being entrusted the stones, so it's not like the Triforce was that detrimental of secret if it ever got out).

      I believe it should also be mentioned that Ganondorf was able to launch a surprise assault on the capital, and that's something that should be very hard to do without any inside help. Also this quote:

      Dying Guard wrote:

      I tried to stop Ganondorf's men
      from chasing them...but...
      Implies that he had non-Gerudo help in his attack. Hyruleans subverting the capital or at least in some way assisting Ganondorf is further supported by Ingo (his nightstand):
      zeldauniverse.net/forums/User/5402110-Instrutilus/But why is this important? Because if Ganondorf had insurgents in a hugely abundant and prosperous land like Hyrule, and especially ones high up enough to compromise the capital (again, no matter how powerful Ganondorf or even well trusted he is, that isn't something a single man can pull off), then they almost certainly know about the Triforce (not only did Ganondorf have no reason not to tell them, but giving that information is a huge boon in his favor for support, and I can't think of much reason for Hyruleans to support a desert nomad and thief who's nation was just on the losing side of the last war).[/url]

      All this means is that disclosing the Triforce not only isn't the biggest issue, not mentioning the clan leaders probably already about it, like how they know about other Royal Family secrets, but it would give then good reason to hunt down the traitors who assaulted/comprised the capital in addition to Ganondorf, so the very same thing doesn't happen again. In fact, this would be quite hard do without good reason.

      In any case, we have immediate precedence for the Royal Family not being able to keep secrets, and keeping secrets for several hundreds years just isn't realistic (to put this into perspective, the United States of America isn't even three hundred years old).
      If it's true that the story of the HoT is a secret disclosed, then that even fits with HH. Hyrule Historia may just mean that he was not remembered during his own time and it was found out later. And I think most of us agree that any explanation that reconciles in-game quotes with the HH should be followed.

      Now, I have exams tomorrow, and the day afterwards I start some medical stuff, so I won't be able to respond for about week or so. Until then, happy holidays and good luck figuring out the timeline placement. I'm sure when I come back you guys will have it all figured out.
      [/spoiler]
      Display Spoiler

      gamtos wrote:

      listed all the different things "some weirdness" could entail
      Display Spoiler

      Calling this game a reboot just raises further issues.

      Alright here goes:
      1. The game has references to all timelines.
      2. Events in any timeline would make it very hard for them to be related to BotW (CT does not mesh well with Zora Tablets, AT does not mesh well with Hyrule, DT does not mesh well with races).
      3. The game takes place at the end of whatever timeline it could be in. It's the most "recent" Zelda by any chronology. This is the only solid developer statement regarding the timeline placement we have.
      4. Hyrule's history was changed over time. Anything in BotW that details the history of Hyrule is to be taken with a grain of salt.
        [/list]What does this mean?
        [list]
      5. By point 1 and 2, any one of three Hyrule Historia timelines has issues. Point 4 could be used to rectify this. "Easter egg" is a common dismissal of point 1, but kills discussion. [url='https://gonintendo.com/stories/272641-aonuma-on-zelda-botw-wind-waker-influence-the-feeling-of-zeld']The Koroks were an easter egg, for example.
      6. For that matter, by point 1, 2 and 3 any placements "between" games are out (and would have massive trouble fitting 10 000 years of Sheikah technology and Ganon's form anyways)
      7. An explicit, "hard" timeline merge would solve point 1 but suffer from point 2 by threefold. It would also be very hard to justify.
      8. A reboot would solve point 2 but would ignore point 3 and would suffer from point 1 by threefold.
      This leaves us with a few other possibilities.
      • "Soft merge" through time shenanigans (timeshift stones, Sheikah technology, Goddess of Time, Temple of Time), items and stories of other timelines made its way into BOTW's. This makes BOTW's canon timeline placement virtually unknowable, but does mesh well with points 1 and 4. As any magic merge, it requires we believe fifth-dimensional travel, observation or full on merging is possible and also that it happened off-camera.
      • Merge through inevitability. This one assumes that over many, many years, events in the three timelines made them all grow more and more similar until they were identical. This means BotW essentially happens in all three timelines, and which one we're on is unknowable. While this is a huge assumption, it does tie in with Zelda's themes of destiny. However, it clashes with point 4 as an explanation.
      • BotW didn't actually happen. Be it through a dream or a story retelling or any other "it's all fiction" trope, BotW doesn't fit anywhere on the timeline because even in-universe, it's not "real".
      • Other Zelda games didn't actually happen. BotW's timeline is unknowable, but some of the references are references to fiction stories that became legends over time, or retellings of an event that had so many details altered it became several different contradictory legends.
      • "Even softer merge". All games did happen, but through dreams or some sort of divine inspiration, storytellers in Hyrule began telling tales of things that happened in different timelines. Of course, this makes BOTW's timeline placement unkowable.
      No matter which way you spin it, there's no real satisfactory answer.

      Did I miss one?


      Display Spoiler


      @Fal Cie

      >In fact I think we're in agreement with how Ganondorf is remembered.
      The difference in opinion comes from me thinking this is irreconcilable
      with the theory that the alternate history was accepted by multiple
      races. And again I must press the point that it's not that nobody remembers
      Ganondorf, but his history isn't relevant for regular people to talk
      about in game.


      The only people technically in the CT who would remember Ganondorf historically would be the Royal Hylian Family. It was them who were told of what Ganondorf would do, and accordingly (albet years later) he was executed. Like wise in FSA, Zelda knew that Ganondorf was Ganondorf 1 reincarnated. Like TP, the Hylians in FSA didn't know that Ganonorf was behind the problems that were happening in the land. Most chalked it up to Vaati (or the twilli in TP I assume). So while I agree "regular" people wouldn't talk about OoT Ganondorf, it's equally true that they were not the ones who were told what Ganondorf would do. The people who were told, were the people who took action against Ganondorf. Is it not fair that Ganondorf wasn't really in the spolight in TP or FSA to be remembered like he was in OoT, between Zant and Vaati both are the ones people would (from an outside looking in view) think it was them causing the problems not Ganondorf (soley).

      The thing is confusing is why the Gerudo and Hylians have a separate account for OoT Ganondorf. The BOTW Hylians (royal family at least) would know (if in the CT) about OoT Ganondorf because they were told. However the fact that the Gerudo are the ones who essentially were able to track some genesis of how C.Ganon came to be. If the Royal Family were supposed to be the ones to have intimate knowledge of Ganondorf across time (somewhat literally), how wouldn't they know that detail. But maybe some more time in thought might give an answer.



      >I don't think I've seen anyone doubt the presence of the Koroks and Rito at the end of the AT before.Otherwise I think we can agree that the BotW Rito have an alternate
      origin from the WW type, and seem to exist regardless of timeline branch.

      Don't misunderstand, im not saying that the Rito and Korok cease to exist throughout the rest of the AT, but it is odd why they weren't included in later games considering the success of WW. I just find it weird that the Rito (and korok) don't have in-game lore to connect them to other games.



      >Fitting it in the CT requires a legend being accepted as reality, which isn't the case as we see in games down the line. Whereas fitting it in the DT requires the legend to shift details as
      time goes on. Which is explained very easily by history getting distorted, but also by the phrase 'history is written by the winners'.


      Let us keep in mind that BOTW doesn't tell "half-true" history, the history is credible and accurate by almost all accounts. The only issue is that BOTW has cross timeline knowledge and we don't know why. Who the source of that cross timeline knowledge would help the mystery but may or may not be a good timeline indicator. From a meta-view we don't have a "ALBW" account of historical events. It's hard to imagine that ALBW royal family can't keep track of history, then suddenly they can in BOTW but with a history that isn't accurate to it's timeline. Given how credible BOTW account of history is, forgive me for having doubts on the placement. Cross timeline source is fine to explain details like TP, SS, and WW. However that doesn't mean that the history as it exists should be incorrect.


      Like I mentioned early, Hyrule wasn't told of Ganondorf (OoT), only the Royal Family. The Royal Family in the CT like BOTW know general knowledge but don't specify (moreso in MM to be fair) the whole event. MM Royal Family knows who traveled across time, for what, and why. In TP, the citizens only know that a Hero saved Hyrule from a crisis, which means they barely know anything. The mural in the TPHD shows that the Royal Family know a lot more than the citizens do.


      Having this to show you my point about how, we don't get incorrect information but much of it goes unmentioned

      If you want to explain my point further I can add pics to this if it would help.




      Maybe Nintendo will remake AoL and LoZ to fit with the times and add some (retcons) lore to mesh it better with Botw. Until then, hmm Im not there on DT just yet.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Big Daddy Biggles ().

    • Fal Cie wrote:

      Yeah he got them exiled, then the rift was mended over time. That would mean that he was known as a bad ruler, not as a demon king, so the name wouldn't carry such terrible implications.
      This whole matter is just reinforcing to me that Link from OoT didn't pass on any detailed account of the future, let alone that any races accepted it as fact.
      On the contrary, I think a fairly plausible explanation has arisen. Putting aside whatever you think of Hylians believing the legend/incorporating it into history (and I realize you think that's implausible, and this is probably the main point of contention between any CT/DT theorist), the Gerudo aren't going to take a story about their leader becoming a demon king as anything more then slander from the Royal Family. I could even see them naming their guardian Ganondorf just to prove those stories are hundreds years old superstitions and their race never had anything to do with demon lords. That might change, however, when he actually does become a demon lord.
      I considered why they changed their tradition mostly irrelevant. Traditions change. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter since FSA made it clear the tradition did change, regardless of whether they had knowledge of the HoT and so has very little to do with this whole timeline debate.

      Of course, I understand an alternative explanation is that legend was not passed down, and hence there was no fear in naming him Ganondorf, but I think my explanation is plausible enough that it isn't enough to hinder the possibility of the HoT's story being remembered anymore then it was already.

      Fal Cie wrote:

      I'm just pointing out that Link chose to act heroic when faced with trouble. So by the same idea if an incarnation of Gor Coron lived through an event where the Gorons faced trouble he would act as a leader, as his TP version did.
      Considering we're discussing possible events over a stretch of 10K plus years I don't think it's unlikely the Gorons faced troublesome times that a version of Gor lived through.
      Well, it's certainly interesting to be on the other side of this argument. See, this is a common response a CT theorist can make when they're accused of lacking in attacks from Ganon. "It's been ten thousand years, there would have to been two or three attacks from Ganon" "But what about the long era of peace, or why weren't these ever mentioned? We don't really know that he revived, so it's still unneeded assumptions". It's the same goddamn argument. Of course I understand the later specifics of that argument differ, that isn't the point


      So, taking what you said about Gor Coron, let's say some things. Straight off, we don't know if Gor Coron leadership qualities are innate. We learned from Linebeck that someone who isn't courageous, when forced into certain situations, can become courageous, but in most circumstances (and most lifelines) they'll probably be their normal self, even when there are opportunities to be courageous (again, Linebeck). If you argue Linebeck III isn't a reincarnation, I'm going to go mental.
      I would bring also to your mind the fact we know very little about reincarnation. Does everyone reincarnate at the same pace? It doesn't seem that way. It doesn't even seem consistent with Link himself. If you think an abundance of reappearing charterers is evidence of commonalty, I would remind you firstly of our lack of knowledge of time between games, and secondly the seeming picking and choosing the universe has with certain characters. Sure, 10k years may seem like long to the living, but how long is it for a reincarnating spirit? Does it matter if they're trying to revive (like Ganon/Demise's hatred)? Let's grant that Gor Coron does reincarnate in the ten thousand year time gap.

      Ok, how many times does he revive? Well, according to you, a lot. Let's grant that. During one these times, during "the long era of peace", a circumstance (or rather, several, at different times) occur which Gorons would consider on par with Daruk's troubles. Let's assume that, too. It wouldn't be much for the ever reincarnating Gor Coron to end in one these circumstances. That is, if he reincarnates into this Goron tribe. For, why, indeed, should we assume he reincarnates into this particular tribe? How many reincarnating Goron souls are there anyway? Wouldn't higher (and increasing?) numbers of Goron souls decrease the chance of Gor Coron getting his chance to shine in this one particular tribe? But putting that aside, we must now either assume Gor Coron's qualities are innate or assume the circumstances push him up to the task. Lastly, and one I doubt you even considered, he has to actually succeed in his endeavor enough to be worth remembering. Oh yeah, and his best remembered look, or the one they wanted to carve into the mountain, was his appearance when he was old, for some reason. If we assume all that, then sure, this provides nothing for the CT.

      I'm not irritated that you think Gor Coron isn't some slam dunk piece of evidence. It isn't. I'm annoyed that you seem to think you're barely even making an assumption when you insist it was a reincarnation.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by EnigmaFarce ().

    • Nonoctoro wrote:

      Majora's Mask's graphics are an improvement over Ocarina of Time's, the characters's models are more detailled and smooth, one is just low poly.

      Do you have a good ecample from other counterparts?
      Darmani has huge lips that Darunia's texture mouth could easily have and regardless of polycount, he's a lot heftier.

      Hylia's springs !

      Could you specify?

      Also, the Zonai ruins seem to be pretty old ...

      They seem old because they seem decayed, which kinda negates the idea of sacred places not decaying.

      It was the order of the Golden Goddesses, the Ancient Sages are on a divine mission.
      The mirror is a sacred artefact created by the GG that only the true Monarch of Twillight can destroy. Not even 10 000 years can.

      That says absolutely nothing about the execution grounds it was arbitrarily placed on though.




      The ruins form a circle in remembrance of the coliseum shape of the Arbiter's Grounds.

      Well, this is a huge reference to the Arbiter's Grounds, surely meant to be its ruins.
      Other localizations like my French one, are making it reference to be the ruins of that place.

      Yet, no square pillars exist in the TP version, nor does the stone in the center make sense.
    • Hmmm ... There is no more evidences about Darmani being Darunia's counterpart, but still,Darunia is related to a ancient Goron Hero.
      There is something to dig here !


      Hylia's Spring and probably the Zonai Ruins are all pre-SS, they are obviously decayed, but still here after more than ~ 15 100 years.

      "An arbitrarilry place" ? Well, nothing said that too, it have the symbols of the Sages, the mirror was here since the end of the Interlopers War, I'm pretty sure it is not.
      But you do recognize that in order to destroy it, you need the true monarch of the Twili, which was Midna !

      Well that's a point of view, BOTW graphics weren't made for that, that's a question of texture.
    • misisme33 wrote:

      The only people technically in the CT who would remember Ganondorf historically would be the Royal Hylian Family. It was them who were told of what Ganondorf would do, and accordingly (albet years later) he was executed. Like wise in FSA, Zelda knew that Ganondorf was Ganondorf 1 reincarnated.
      Then I should point out that Zelda did not in fact know about the previous Ganondorf.
      She was not talking about Ganondorf being reborn, rather she was referring to the Trident itself being revived by the current Ganondorf.


      Zelda FSA wrote:

      ガノン?。この魔獣が ゲルド族?、人間だった ガノンドロフだというの?!
      Ganon? This demon beast was of the Gerudo tribe?, it was human and called Ganondorf?!


      闇の王? 太古から よみがえった 魔の邪器(じゃき)、トライデントを手にした男!!
      King of Darkness? The man who took the Trident, the demon's evil device (ja-ki) revived from ancient times!!

      In this case not even the royal family seems to know anything about TP Ganondorf, Zelda is just summing up what the maidens learned during the course of FSA.


      Like TP, the Hylians in FSA didn't know that Ganonorf was behind the problems that were happening in the land. Most chalked it up to Vaati (or the twilli in TP I assume). So while I agree "regular" people wouldn't talk about OoT Ganondorf, it's equally true that they were not the ones who were told what Ganondorf would do. The people who were told, were the people who took action against Ganondorf. Is it not fair that Ganondorf wasn't really in the spolight in TP or FSA to be remembered like he was in OoT, between Zant and Vaati both are the ones people would (from an outside looking in view) think it was them causing the problems not Ganondorf (soley).
      The thing is confusing is why the Gerudo and Hylians have a separate account for OoT Ganondorf. The BOTW Hylians (royal family at least) would know (if in the CT) about OoT Ganondorf because they were told. However the fact that the Gerudo are the ones who essentially were able to track some genesis of how C.Ganon came to be. If the Royal Family were supposed to be the ones to have intimate knowledge of Ganondorf across time (somewhat literally), how wouldn't they know that detail. But maybe some more time in thought might give an answer.

      I agree that neither Ganondorf would have cause for remembrance, as demonstrated by the prior quote indicating he wasn't important enough to be recalled by the royal records, or by the equivalent to the Sages in FSA.

      I personally also doubt that OoT Link gave an in depth account of the future, because if he explained that he had his Triforce piece that would alert the TP Sages to Ganondorf having his. Therefore they wouldn't be surprised by his possessing it, and they wouldn't have failed during his execution.
      Don't misunderstand, im not saying that the Rito and Korok cease to exist throughout the rest of the AT, but it is odd why they weren't included in later games considering the success of WW. I just find it weird that the Rito (and korok) don't have in-game lore to connect them to other games.
      Just because they were in prior games doesn't mean they're obligated to make an appearance, nor does it mean that the developers need to waste time finding a way to place them in the game or develop graphics or dialogue to expand on them.

      And in the opposite direction if the developers have an idea to implement in the game and including a race makes that vision easier they'll bring them back, explanations be damned.

      Let us keep in mind that BOTW doesn't tell "half-true" history, the history is credible and accurate by almost all accounts. The only issue is that BOTW has cross timeline knowledge and we don't know why. Who the source of that cross timeline knowledge would help the mystery but may or may not be a good timeline indicator. From a meta-view we don't have a "ALBW" account of historical events. It's hard to imagine that ALBW royal family can't keep track of history, then suddenly they can in BOTW but with a history that isn't accurate to it's timeline. Given how credible BOTW account of history is, forgive me for having doubts on the placement. Cross timeline source is fine to explain details like TP, SS, and WW. However that doesn't mean that the history as it exists should be incorrect.
      Like I mentioned early, Hyrule wasn't told of Ganondorf (OoT), only the Royal Family. The Royal Family in the CT like BOTW know general knowledge but don't specify (moreso in MM to be fair) the whole event. MM Royal Family knows who traveled across time, for what, and why. In TP, the citizens only know that a Hero saved Hyrule from a crisis, which means they barely know anything. The mural in the TPHD shows that the Royal Family know a lot more than the citizens do.
      Having this to show you my point about how, we don't get incorrect information but much of it goes unmentioned
      If you want to explain my point further I can add pics to this if it would help.
      Maybe Nintendo will remake AoL and LoZ to fit with the times and add some (retcons) lore to mesh it better with Botw. Until then, hmm Im not there on DT just yet.

      Let's try tackle each of the accounts- The History of Hyrule matches the ALBW portraits. ALBW describes Ganondorf becoming Ganon, then threatening Hyrule. Just as the Master Works describes. ALBW says Zelda was the one to guide Link to join forces, which can be described as combining their power to seal Ganon.

      Now the other two races would have kept their own records, separate from the royal Hylian account.

      The Zora account says Ruto aided the Hero and Princess in the fight. It doesn't say the hero won.

      The Gerudo account says Ganondorfs ambitions were crushed by the hero. That doesn't necessarily mean he was beaten in a fight. We know Ganondorf was foiled in spite of gaining the Triforce because he was sealed by the sages, who wouldn't have been able to do so without the hero.

      There is a way to make each of the accounts fit, again purely from sheer dumb luck.

      I also don't understand your point by showing the throne room picture(it's also really small), what are you trying to convey?


      EnigmaFarce wrote:

      On the contrary, I think a fairly plausible explanation has arisen. Putting aside whatever you think of Hylians believing the legend/incorporating it into history (and I realize you think that's implausible, and this is probably the main point of contention between any CT/DT theorist), the Gerudo aren't going to take a story about their leader becoming a demon king as anything more then slander from the Royal Family. I could even see them naming their guardian Ganondorf just to prove those stories are hundreds years old superstitions and their race never had anything to do with demon lords. That might change, however, when he actually does become a demon lord.I considered why they changed their tradition mostly irrelevant. Traditions change. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter since FSA made it clear the tradition did change, regardless of whether they had knowledge of the HoT and so has very little to do with this whole timeline debate.

      Of course, I understand an alternative explanation is that legend was not passed down, and hence there was no fear in naming him Ganondorf, but I think my explanation is plausible enough that it isn't enough to hinder the possibility of the HoT's story being remembered anymore then it was already.

      Not accepting the Hylian Royal account does make sense for sticking to Ganondorf as a name.
      What doesn't make sense is them suddenly accepting the prior account due to what the current one did, especially as the Royal Family themselves appear unaware of the prior Ganondorf's crimes, real or alternate as I have pointed out at the start of this post.
      Furthermore if they did accept that evil incarnate was born to them twice that still isn't reflected in Urbosa's thoughts.

      Well, it's certainly interesting to be on the other side of this argument. See, this is a common response a CT theorist can make when they're accused of lacking in attacks from Ganon. "It's been ten thousand years, there would have to been two or three attacks from Ganon" "But what about the long era of peace, or why weren't these ever mentioned? We don't really know that he revived, so it's still unneeded assumptions". It's the same goddamn argument. Of course I understand the later specifics of that argument differ, that isn't the point

      Ha, I suppose it is similar in that regard. I've never held the Ganon attack number as strong evidence. Sure it's an existing pattern on the DT, but patterns can end or start when we have grey area to work with.


      So, taking what you said about Gor Coron, let's say some things. Straight off, we don't know if Gor Coron leadership qualities are innate. We learned from Linebeck that someone who isn't courageous, when forced into certain situations, can become courageous, but in most circumstances (and most lifelines) they'll probably be their normal self, even when there are opportunities to be courageous (again, Linebeck). If you argue Linebeck III isn't a reincarnation, I'm going to go mental.
      I would bring also to your mind the fact we know very little about reincarnation. Does everyone reincarnate at the same pace? It doesn't seem that way. It doesn't even seem consistent with Link himself. If you think an abundance of reappearing charterers is evidence of commonalty, I would remind you firstly of our lack of knowledge of time between games, and secondly the seeming picking and choosing the universe has with certain characters. Sure, 10k years may seem like long to the living, but how long is it for a reincarnating spirit? Does it matter if they're trying to revive (like Ganon/Demise's hatred)? Let's grant that Gor Coron does reincarnate in the ten thousand year time gap.
      Ok, how many times does he revive? Well, according to you, a lot. Let's grant that. During one these times, during "the long era of peace", a circumstance (or rather, several, at different times) occur which Gorons would consider on par with Daruk's troubles. Let's assume that, too. It wouldn't be much for the ever reincarnating Gor Coron to end in one these circumstances. That is, if he reincarnates into this Goron tribe. For, why, indeed, should we assume he reincarnates into this particular tribe? How many reincarnating Goron souls are there anyway? Wouldn't higher (and increasing?) numbers of Goron souls decrease the chance of Gor Coron getting his chance to shine in this one particular tribe? But putting that aside, we must now either assume Gor Coron's qualities are innate or assume the circumstances push him up to the task. Lastly, and one I doubt you even considered, he has to actually succeed in his endeavor enough to be worth remembering. Oh yeah, and his best remembered look, or the one they wanted to carve into the mountain, was his appearance when he was old, for some reason. If we assume all that, then sure, this provides nothing for the CT.
      I'm not irritated that you think Gor Coron isn't some slam dunk piece of evidence. It isn't. I'm annoyed that you seem to think you're barely even making an assumption when you insist it was a reincarnation.
      I should point out I've just been using the term reincarnation out of expediency, I don't know if every lookalike is the same soul or just persistent genetics.
      The main point is that these descendant doppelgangers have existed from the ancient past to the distant future, so a 'Gor Coron' may have existed from the dawn of time.
      But I don't want you to go spare, so OK we'll say they're reincarnations.
      Based on the characters reappearing in PH and ST we may say reincarnations can occur as frequently as each century, if you'd like to be generous. So yes, I would argue that would create at most 100 opportunities in the 10,000 year span without Ganon. Adding to that we don't know how long that ancient battle was from the end of each timeline as we know them.

      Moving on to the circumstances worthy of remembrance, do we have the exact text from MW/CaC? Is it actually heroism that the statues are made for, or what quality?
      In any case as Daruk is the most prominent statue carved we would be saying Daruk's exploits surpassed Gor's, not the other way around.

      For the CT placement I have to ask. What did Gor even do? I know he was the prior patriarch, but as you say the statue is of when he is old. During TP he took charge of the Gorons when Darbus was possessed, but he didn't really accomplish anything. At best he held the line until someone up to the task appeared. If that's the yardstick of measuring heroism or repute, then yeah I definitely think he could successful wait for someone else to fix a mess in another period of time.

      So yes, based on what we know of the series I personally don't think it's a large assumption for a reincarnation/doppelbirth to occur over such an abyss of a timegap, or for said entity to match his CT version feat of filibustering.

      But in the end that's just my take on the matter, I can appreciate that my assumptions may seem outlandish to you.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Fal Cie ().

    • >She was not talking about Ganondorf being reborn, rather she was referring to the Trident itself being revived by the current Ganondorf.

      The person who did the translation I saw last (Jumbie I think) noted that it wasn't the trident that was an ancient evil reborn, it was Ganondorf. Reason being is because the game established that the trident was the demon's evil device, not that it has a spirit withing.

      "ジャキ? 魔の邪器(じゃき) トライデント??
      Ja-ki? Demon's evil device, the trident??"



      >I personally also doubt that OoT Link gave an in depth account of the future, because if he explained that he had his Triforce piece that would alert the TP Sages to Ganondorf having his. Therefore they wouldn't be surprised by his possessing it, and they wouldn't have failed during his execution.

      Not necessarily. Why would Link think that? The distribution of the triforce in the CT would be out of his own knowledge because that was done bts. We don't see the ToW on Zelda's hand by the end of OoT, all we see is Link's ToC, it's not a stretch that he wouldn't think that Ganondorf (who had never used it before) had the ToP. No one, not even Ganondorf was aware he had the ToP until his execution. We don't even know if Zelda from OoT knew she had the ToW.

      Link's account for the future is limited to what he saw and experienced and I assume most of his message to Zelda dealt with the what and how Ganondorf ruined Hyrule. Second we don't know who the TP Sages are. They could be the former sages but never awakened (meaning a seal wouldn't be needed) or they had to be somewhat close to the Royal Family based on the 4 stones (with the temple symbols) around the throne.


      6 symbols of the temples that housed the sages.



      >Just because they were in prior games doesn't mean they're obligated to
      make an appearance, nor does it mean that the developers need to waste
      time finding a way to place them in the game or develop graphics or
      dialogue to expand on them. And in the opposite direction if the developers have an idea to
      implement in the game and including a race makes that vision easier
      they'll bring them back, explanations be damned.


      Then the question is moot at this point then.


      >The History of Hyrule matches the ALBW portraits (strongly disagree). ALBW describes
      Ganondorf becoming Ganon (when was the name Ganondorf ever mentioned in the ALBW prologue),


      then threatening Hyrule. Just as the Master
      Works describes. ALBW says Zelda was the one to guide Link to join
      forces, which can be described as combining their power to seal Ganon( accept in the ALBW prologue, Zelda isn't one of the seven sages who seal him away).


      Now the other two races would have kept their own records, separate from the royal Hylian account.


      The Zora account says Ruto aided the Hero and Princess in the fight. It doesn't say the hero won. The fact that the Hero was involved and the rest of Hyrule knows that they and the Hero sealed Ganon, we can assume confidently, they mean that Ruto and the Hero (with the princess) found success together.


      translation by The Baton of Wind




      The Gerudo account says Ganondorfs ambitions were crushed by the hero.
      That doesn't necessarily mean he was beaten in a fight. (figurative language, we know that because if you know OoT, what caused Ganondorf to transform into Ganon was because Link defeated his Gerudo form)

      I don't think it's coincidence that the Gerudo worship 7 Heroines but acknowledge that there was an 8 person of that party. 8 being the total number of being in OoT who helped defeat Ganon.


      We know Ganondorf was foiled in spite of gaining the Triforce because he was sealed by the sages, who wouldn't have been able to do so without the
      hero. (I have to keep pressing this point, that just because the Hero was involved doesn't mean he will be remembered as a Hero. It was because of the failure of the Hero why Ganon got so strong in the first place. Even from the view of BOTW, it's not even the same Link. OoT wasn't called by the princess, he met her because the GDT told him to. Literal opposite "call to adventure" stories.)





      vs






      There is a way to make each of the accounts fit, again purely from sheer dumb luck. (the accounts do fit, none of them contradict eachother)






      I also don't understand your point by showing the throne room picture(it's also really small), what are you trying to convey? CT shows that it has some knowledge (a very loose example) of OoT dealing with the sage as seen by having 4 of the stones having the temple symbols.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by misisme33 ().

    • Hey guys. So I just realized how far past due the current timelines thread is (usually close a thread at 8000 and it is currently sitting just over 13,000 lol).

      Soooooo figured it was time to refresh the thread and start anew!

      Couple of quick things before we get this party started:

      1) This thread will be full of spoilers so if you haven't played much of the game, be careful reading forward.

      2) This thread can get a bit heated with back and forth discussion which is fine, but please remain civil. There will be no tolerance for people attacking each other or being rude.

      3) Please try to keep larger posts neat and spoilered if possible (this includes big quotes, large walls of texts, etc.) It keeps things looking nice and makes it easier for people to load pages who have crappy internet.

      I think that is all for now so have it!


      Sig & Avvy by Lady Sunshine, the most wonderful girl in the world

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Big Daddy Biggles ().

    • @Big Daddy Biggles Would you be able to add the references from the start of the original thread to this new one?

      @EnigmaFarce The fight will never be over, because we're keeping our dreams alive.

      @misisme33

      Display Spoiler

      misisme33 wrote:

      >She was not talking about Ganondorf being reborn, rather she was referring to the Trident itself being revived by the current Ganondorf.

      The person who did the translation I saw last (Jumbie I think) noted that it wasn't the trident that was an ancient evil reborn, it was Ganondorf. Reason being is because the game established that the trident was the demon's evil device, not that it has a spirit withing.

      "ジャキ? 魔の邪器(じゃき) トライデント??
      Ja-ki? Demon's evil device, the trident??"

      I don't know where you're getting that idea, I used Jumbie's translation in the first place.

      Here is Jumbie's original. Where they make clear it was the Triforce that was revived from ancient times.

      There was a lot of discussion about this translation back then, so it was cross checked.

      Here is the translation by jacensolo06. They agree with Jumbie in that it was the tool of demons that was revived.

      Perhaps you have seen a new translation? We can get someone to double check it if you like.

      In any case if these translations are accurate it means the first Ganondorf is utterly forgotten, both his AT and CT events.
      You would expect a Zelda already trusted with enforcing a seal on a famous demons would have knowledge of the demon king that had a Triforce piece. But no, it seems Ganondorf I is forgotten by his own people, the Hylian royal family and not even mentioned by a sage that was alive during OoT.

      Not necessarily. Why would Link think that? The distribution of the triforce in the CT would be out of his own knowledge because that was done bts. We don't see the ToW on Zelda's hand by the end of OoT, all we see is Link's ToC, it's not a stretch that he wouldn't think that Ganondorf (who had never used it before) had the ToP. No one, not even Ganondorf was aware he had the ToP until his execution. We don't even know if Zelda from OoT knew she had the ToW.
      Link's account for the future is limited to what he saw and experienced and I assume most of his message to Zelda dealt with the what and how Ganondorf ruined Hyrule. Second we don't know who the TP Sages are. They could be the former sages but never awakened (meaning a seal wouldn't be needed) or they had to be somewhat close to the Royal Family based on the 4 stones (with the temple symbols) around the throne.

      Link may not be aware of the full implications, but had he mentioned the full story and shown his piece then the sages would investigate the current state of the Triforce and realize something strange was happening.


      (when was the name Ganondorf ever mentioned in the ALBW prologue),
      That's not a contradiction, that's a detail skipped in an abbreviated account.

      ( accept in the ALBW prologue, Zelda isn't one of the seven sages who seal him away).

      The painting covers the event as follows:

      'A hero of legend arose from humble beginnings, awoken to his purpose by a princess of Hyrule.
      With the Master Sword, the blade of evil's bane, he sought the descendants of the Seven Sages.
      Together they defeated the Demon King Ganon - and sealed him away in darkness.'

      The 'together' in the final line could be interpreted as the hero, the princess and the sages, giving the impression that the princess was an active party in the sealing.


      The fact that the Hero was involved and the rest of Hyrule knows that they and the Hero sealed Ganon, we can assume confidently, they mean that Ruto and the Hero (with the princess) found success together.
      You're the only person I've seen assume that.
      We know that the seal was a success, but that is separate to whether the hero survives or not.

      (figurative language, we know that because if you know OoT, what caused Ganondorf to transform into Ganon was because Link defeated his Gerudo form)
      I realize it's figurative, that's how it can apply to being outmaneuvered rather than physically beaten. We don't know the circumstances of how Ganondorf became Ganon in the DT, it could easily have occurred once he was sealed.


      I don't think it's coincidence that the Gerudo worship 7 Heroines but acknowledge that there was an 8 person of that party. 8 being the total number of being in OoT who helped defeat Ganon.

      Yes and the lone heroine that lost her sword could be interpreted as the deceased hero.

      (I have to keep pressing this point, that just because the Hero was involved doesn't mean he will be remembered as a Hero. It was because of the failure of the Hero why Ganon got so strong in the first place. Even from the view of BOTW, it's not even the same Link. OoT wasn't called by the princess, he met her because the GDT told him to. Literal opposite "call to adventure" stories.)
      And likewise I need to emphasize that if a hero dies but contributes to the overall success of his cause then being seen as a hero is entirely valid.
      Besides that point I've established that the legend portrayed in ALBW is taken as the origin story for Ganon and his first battle with the hero. I realize it mixes some events from ALttP in, but as far as everyone is aware Ganon was beaten as soon as he showed up.


      CT shows that it has some knowledge (a very loose example) of OoT dealing with the sage as seen by having 4 of the stones having the temple symbols.
      The sage symbols predate the timelines, they appear as early as SS in the sealed temple that became the Temple of Time. That's no indication of AT knowledge.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Fal Cie ().

    • I realize this might not be a particularly helpful statement, but I still don't see why the CT is being given candidacy. From the outside looking in, the arguments for it are so incredibly complicated, multifaceted, and mired in increasingly smaller minutiae, and it's really difficult (for me at least) to take them seriously. The DT still seems to check pretty much every box without any substantial problems nor any like deep-diving, and as a certain loveable homicidial AI once said, "The best solution to a problem is usually the easiest one."

      In order of likelihood (and conveniently ignoring the route Nintendo actually took), I'd still have to say that DT > CT > AT > other options.
      Wither and decay... End this destiny... Break these earthly chains and set the spirit free...
    • No, that isn't a helpful statement Setras, because you've elected yourself as some sort of arbiter that can see things "from the outside looking in". The reality is the CT placement seems so implausible to you because it demands you reconstruct many of the conceptions you have of the Zelda universe and its history, plus reorder your priorities on what's important and what's not. Your mistake is in thinking everyone had to do the same thing. Or what I mean to say is that a CT theorist (a real one, anyway) has vastly different conceptions on the Zelda universe and impressions of plausibility on certain notions. We aren't all working from the same baseline.

      Not to say there aren't people who would argue for the CT/AT just 'cause they think it's fun.
    • EnigmaFarce wrote:

      No, that isn't a helpful statement Setras, because you've elected yourself as some sort of arbiter that can see things "from the outside looking in".

      I could have worded that better, admittedly, but I meant "as someone who is not a CT proponent looking in on those arguments."

      The reality is the CT placement seems so implausible to you because it demands you reconstruct many of the conceptions you have of the Zelda universe and its history, plus reorder your priorities on what's important and what's not.

      Quite, and that's precisely why I personally don't see CT placement as viable- if that much mental flexing is required to make the idea work, again, the simpler idea seems like the better call.

      Your mistake is in thinking everyone had to do the same thing. Or what I mean to say is that a CT theorist (a real one, anyway) has vastly different conceptions on the Zelda universe and impressions of plausibility on certain notions. We aren't all working from the same baseline.

      Did I claim as much? I said it was difficult "for me at least" to take the CT arguments seriously- the fact that this isn't the case for CT theorists and they are more receptive to said arguments goes without saying.

      Clearly I shouldn't have spoken on the matter, so I'll see myself out.
      Wither and decay... End this destiny... Break these earthly chains and set the spirit free...
    • Nonoctoro wrote:

      Hmmm ... There is no more evidences about Darmani being Darunia's counterpart, but still,Darunia is related to a ancient Goron Hero.
      There is something to dig here !
      Looking at Koume and Kotake, why would your Terminan counterpart say anything about you?
      Regardless, I've made my point; the fact that Darmani and Cor Goron are depicted says nothing about the timeline placement.

      Nonoctoro wrote:

      Hylia's Spring and probably the Zonai Ruins are all pre-SS
      Source?

      Nonoctoro wrote:

      But you do recognize that in order to destroy it, you need the true monarch of the Twili, which was Midna !
      Perhaps. The line was said in reference to Zant being unable to destroy the mirror - I would not find it unreasonable for Hylia to have the same powers, among others.

      Nonoctoro wrote:

      Well that's a point of view, BOTW graphics weren't made for that, that's a question of texture.
      No, that's a fact. If they wanted the grounds to be similar, they had all the tools to do so, yet they went with square pillars and an odd centerpiece. BotW's graphics are the finest in series history, they could make whatever they want.

      Hell, if anything, the Coliseum Ruins prove that.

      ============

      Quick question: we're all aware that the real answer of "there is no timeline placement" is not gonna change, right?
    • Setras wrote:

      Did I claim as much? I said it was difficult "for me at least" to take the CT arguments seriously- the fact that this isn't the case for CT theorists and they are more receptive to said arguments goes without saying.
      If it goes without saying, you'll forgive me for not understanding why you "still don't see why the CT is being given candidacy". That coupled with "outside looking in" did not give me a pleasant impression of your post, you understand. That was just my misunderstanding, though, of course.

      Setras wrote:

      Clearly I shouldn't have spoken on the matter, so I'll see myself out.
      Well, I'm deeply sorry for having offended you. The beginning of your post seemed, to me, to be asking for a clarification. So I thought I might merely clarify and clear up the confusion.

      gamtos wrote:

      Quick question: we're all aware that the real answer of "there is no timeline placement" is not gonna change, right?
      Anything is possible if you believe, Gamtos. But, yes, I think we all know that

      The post was edited 1 time, last by EnigmaFarce ().

    • Am I the only one who is of the opinion that due to far too many inconsistencies in both lore and geography in the game that BOTW is non-canon at worst or semi-canon at best so timeline placement is irrelevant? Just curious.
      Zelda Enthusiast and Amateur Letsplayer. Come check out some of my Zelda Challenge Runs!
      bit.ly/2QPVUNp

      The post was edited 1 time, last by The Wings Report ().

    • I say we should entirely throw out the notion of 10,000 years really passing in between BOTW and the other games. The number is so ludicrously high it can't be real. No information, no matter how fragmented, can survive that long. Much less an organization such as the Yiga, even if the group isn't the original.
      We have a real world equivalent in the Sumerian King List; a series of absurd dates, reigns, and descriptions that make progressively more sense the closer you get to the tablet's creation, but make less sense and get more mystical the further you go back. Very few, I think, would take the tablet at face value, but I also think most would not throw it out as a work of pure fiction. Even if the reason is we have so little information from that era.
      10,000 years is just historical confusion, I think.
    • EnigmaFarce wrote:

      I say we should entirely throw out the notion of 10,000 years really passing in between BOTW and the other games. The number is so ludicrously high it can't be real. No information, no matter how fragmented, can survive that long. Much less an organization such as the Yiga, even if the group isn't the original.
      We have a real world equivalent in the Sumerian King List; a series of absurd dates, reigns, and descriptions that make progressively more sense the closer you get to the tablet's creation, but make less sense and get more mystical the further you go back. Very few, I think, would take the tablet at face value, but I also think most would not throw it out as a work of pure fiction. Even if the reason is we have so little information from that era.
      10,000 years is just historical confusion, I think.
      Thank you. I understand that they are attempting to show a period of great technological advancement but I personally think authors misuse time gaps in literature. 10,000 is by far an excessive number. Let's just look at our own real world history. Look at the societal and technological development in just the last 200 years. The first railroads going up in 1815, landing on the moon in 1969, and the internet now.

      The average length of a civilization is 350 years. The longest lasting one was the Aksumite Empire which lasted between 850-1,100 years. A 10,000 year time gap would allow likely dozens of Hyrule civilizations to rise and fall.
      Zelda Enthusiast and Amateur Letsplayer. Come check out some of my Zelda Challenge Runs!
      bit.ly/2QPVUNp

      The post was edited 2 times, last by The Wings Report ().