So...that was Calamity Ganon, eh? - Page 2 - Modern Zelda

GregariousTree · Nov 29th 2018, 6:55pm

AllStarNemesis wrote:

Calamity Ganon was a chump.

He clean sweeps all of Hyrule's knights, the 4 Guardian Beasts, hundreds of Guardian sentries, the 4 Champions, Link (the Hero) and the Princess of Destiny, 100 years prior to the start of BOTW. 100 later, he get's punked by the same hero, 4 champions and 4 guardian beasts and princess he already defeated. What changed? Guess the good guys were just set up to lose 100 years ago.

Um, a lot changed? You can't ignore context. Taking someone by surprise is absolutely a realistic way to gain an edge you otherwise wouldn't have. Nobody expected Calamity Ganon to take control of the guardians and Divine Beasts, or even knew that was possible, and the "princess of destiny" didn't have the training and power to fulfill her role. The second time around, Ganon was the one in the position of power and spending most of his time attempting to regenerate his body, while Link and Zelda were already or became much more prepared than the first time. The two situations are not equivalent at all. There are definitely some problems with Calamity Ganon but that's not a very accurate portrayal of what happened.

AllStarNemesis · Nov 29th 2018, 10:50pm

GregariousTree wrote:

AllStarNemesis wrote:

Calamity Ganon was a chump.

He clean sweeps all of Hyrule's knights, the 4 Guardian Beasts, hundreds of Guardian sentries, the 4 Champions, Link (the Hero) and the Princess of Destiny, 100 years prior to the start of BOTW. 100 later, he get's punked by the same hero, 4 champions and 4 guardian beasts and princess he already defeated. What changed? Guess the good guys were just set up to lose 100 years ago.

Um, a lot changed? You can't ignore context. Taking someone by surprise is absolutely a realistic way to gain an edge you otherwise wouldn't have. Nobody expected Calamity Ganon to take control of the guardians and Divine Beasts, or even knew that was possible, and the "princess of destiny" didn't have the training and power to fulfill her role. The second time around, Ganon was the one in the position of power and spending most of his time attempting to regenerate his body, while Link and Zelda were already or became much more prepared than the first time. The two situations are not equivalent at all. There are definitely some problems with Calamity Ganon but that's not a very accurate portrayal of what happened.

That's true. A rub comes in when you factor in how Calamity Ganon knew about the good guy's plan and how he was able to corrupt so completey the guardian and guardian beast arsenal and turn them against the heroes and all of Hyrule castle.

Honestly, it's really Zelda's fault for not having access to her sacred powers until everyone around her was dead or dying (Link).

Fact remains, the good guys were nerfed by plot. Calamity Ganon had to win, in order for BOTW to have a story. I just wish Calamity Ganon actually had a personality and goals.

Violetlight · Nov 29th 2018, 11:10pm

Castigear wrote:

That’s a good point about the 100 years bit. it sort of feels like if you were to play only the second half of final fantasy vi.

This is perhaps the perfect description of BotW.

Imagine Final Fantasy VI without the World of Balance. No ghost train ride, no quest to discover Terra's family line, no fall of Doma, no Opera house scene, heck, no "son of a submariner!" pretty much none of the moments that made you care about its world, care about its characters. The whole theme of the second half is "Searching for Friends", and the reason that worked so well is because we learned about those friends first. BotW is missing that.

IMO, it relied too heavily on previous games in the Zelda series, assuming that the players would have already played them, thus they didn't *have* to explain the importance of the Champions (which most players of the previous games would know to thematically equate to the Sages), didn't have to put any effort into describing the world, its races and characters. Heck, the only race that got a major lore update was the Shiekah. That's it.

To tie this back to the topic at hand, I think that's why we got so shafted with Calamity Ganon. Every previous Ganon/dorf fight was epic. Even if the gameplay mechanics were so-so, like OoT's tennis match, the ambiance, just the feeling of the upcoming fight, knowing it was the conclusion of all you had worked towards just made it feel so much better. In BotW, knowing you could just jump off the Great Plateau and immediately head for the castle to face him, or alternately, just take your sweet time hunting down every last Korok seed, it just destroyed that sense of urgency that previous Ganon battles, and even Majora's Mask, had. Zelda's already waited 100 years, what's another few in-game months? It won't make a difference either way. Similarly, the world of Hyrule had gone on, despite the Calamity.

Then the fight itself being so easy, so anti-climatic, with no after game. At least in OoT we got a dance party at Lon Lon Ranch, and the NPCs seemed genuinely happy that their world had been saved. In BotW, there was likely little more than a collective shrug from the citizens of Hyrule, if they noticed the Calamity was gone at all.

Getting back to the FFVI comparison: you *can* go right to Kefka's tower after getting the Falcon, with just Celes, Setzer and Edgar. It's totally possible to just level them up the wazoo, go kick Kefka's ass, and be done with it. But it makes for a much more fun game to find all your missing friends first. BotW denied us that opportunity. We didn't get the adventure, we got to hear about it afterwards, and then it expected us to care.

I'd prefer to be able to ...

Mirren · Nov 30th 2018, 10:58am

Violetlight wrote:

Castigear wrote:

That’s a good point about the 100 years bit. it sort of feels like if you were to play only the second half of final fantasy vi.

This is perhaps the perfect description of BotW.

Imagine Final Fantasy VI without the World of Balance. No ghost train ride, no quest to discover Terra's family line, no fall of Doma, no Opera house scene, heck, no "son of a submariner!" pretty much none of the moments that made you care about its world, care about its characters. The whole theme of the second half is "Searching for Friends", and the reason that worked so well is because we learned about those friends first. BotW is missing that.

IMO, it relied too heavily on previous games in the Zelda series, assuming that the players would have already played them, thus they didn't *have* to explain the importance of the Champions (which most players of the previous games would know to thematically equate to the Sages), didn't have to put any effort into describing the world, its races and characters. Heck, the only race that got a major lore update was the Shiekah. That's it.

To tie this back to the topic at hand, I think that's why we got so shafted with Calamity Ganon. Every previous Ganon/dorf fight was epic. Even if the gameplay mechanics were so-so, like OoT's tennis match, the ambiance, just the feeling of the upcoming fight, knowing it was the conclusion of all you had worked towards just made it feel so much better. In BotW, knowing you could just jump off the Great Plateau and immediately head for the castle to face him, or alternately, just take your sweet time hunting down every last Korok seed, it just destroyed that sense of urgency that previous Ganon battles, and even Majora's Mask, had. Zelda's already waited 100 years, what's another few in-game months? It won't make a difference either way. Similarly, the world of Hyrule had gone on, despite the Calamity.

Then the fight itself being so easy, so anti-climatic, with no after game. At least in OoT we got a dance party at Lon Lon Ranch, and the NPCs seemed genuinely happy that their world had been saved. In BotW, there was likely little more than a collective shrug from the citizens of Hyrule, if they noticed the Calamity was gone at all.

Getting back to the FFVI comparison: you *can* go right to Kefka's tower after getting the Falcon, with just Celes, Setzer and Edgar. It's totally possible to just level them up the wazoo, go kick Kefka's ass, and be done with it. But it makes for a much more fun game to find all your missing friends first. BotW denied us that opportunity. We didn't get the adventure, we got to hear about it afterwards, and then it expected us to care.

I'd prefer to be able to ...

There's another perfect example within the series, itself -- Ocarina of Time.

The Hyrule of 7 years later isn't harrowing because Castle Town is destroyed, Zora's Domain is frozen over, Kokiri Forest is overrun with monsters, etc. It's harrowing because we, as the player, experienced those areas when they were enjoying peace and prosperity. We walked through those very parts of Hyrule before they went to hell. That jarring shift in atmosphere is far more dismaying than the sights, themselves.

That's kind of Breath of the Wild's conundrum for its story (and even some of its game design), in a nutshell -- expecting the player to be emotionally invested without appropriate buildup to an event.

Cajbaj · Nov 30th 2018, 11:35am

Still off-topic but I don't think the destruction is supposed to be harrowing. You're in these ruins where people once were, but it's portrayed as peaceful and calming. It's been long enough these people would be dead anyway. I've always really enjoyed going to old ghost towns and ruins, to graves out on the plains, and it's not heartbreaking. I'll peacefully pay my respects, but it's all retaken by nature now and that's OK. The entirety of Hyrule is like that. Definitely don't think it's for everyone but it very much appeals to me.

Castigear · Nov 30th 2018, 12:28pm

Cajbaj wrote:

Still off-topic but I don't think the destruction is supposed to be harrowing. You're in these ruins where people once were, but it's portrayed as peaceful and calming. It's been long enough these people would be dead anyway. I've always really enjoyed going to old ghost towns and ruins, to graves out on the plains, and it's not heartbreaking. I'll peacefully pay my respects, but it's all retaken by nature now and that's OK. The entirety of Hyrule is like that. Definitely don't think it's for everyone but it very much appeals to me.

if your entire continent were like that, you would probably feel differently. But I do get what you’re saying. In nier automata, for example, the overgrown cities are almost comforting in the way that nature is reclaiming everything. Same with Horizon.

Thal1989 · Nov 30th 2018, 3:47pm

Mirren wrote:

Violetlight wrote:

Castigear wrote:

That’s a good point about the 100 years bit. it sort of feels like if you were to play only the second half of final fantasy vi.

This is perhaps the perfect description of BotW.
Imagine Final Fantasy VI without the World of Balance. No ghost train ride, no quest to discover Terra's family line, no fall of Doma, no Opera house scene, heck, no "son of a submariner!" pretty much none of the moments that made you care about its world, care about its characters. The whole theme of the second half is "Searching for Friends", and the reason that worked so well is because we learned about those friends first. BotW is missing that.

IMO, it relied too heavily on previous games in the Zelda series, assuming that the players would have already played them, thus they didn't *have* to explain the importance of the Champions (which most players of the previous games would know to thematically equate to the Sages), didn't have to put any effort into describing the world, its races and characters. Heck, the only race that got a major lore update was the Shiekah. That's it.

To tie this back to the topic at hand, I think that's why we got so shafted with Calamity Ganon. Every previous Ganon/dorf fight was epic. Even if the gameplay mechanics were so-so, like OoT's tennis match, the ambiance, just the feeling of the upcoming fight, knowing it was the conclusion of all you had worked towards just made it feel so much better. In BotW, knowing you could just jump off the Great Plateau and immediately head for the castle to face him, or alternately, just take your sweet time hunting down every last Korok seed, it just destroyed that sense of urgency that previous Ganon battles, and even Majora's Mask, had. Zelda's already waited 100 years, what's another few in-game months? It won't make a difference either way. Similarly, the world of Hyrule had gone on, despite the Calamity.

Then the fight itself being so easy, so anti-climatic, with no after game. At least in OoT we got a dance party at Lon Lon Ranch, and the NPCs seemed genuinely happy that their world had been saved. In BotW, there was likely little more than a collective shrug from the citizens of Hyrule, if they noticed the Calamity was gone at all.

Getting back to the FFVI comparison: you *can* go right to Kefka's tower after getting the Falcon, with just Celes, Setzer and Edgar. It's totally possible to just level them up the wazoo, go kick Kefka's ass, and be done with it. But it makes for a much more fun game to find all your missing friends first. BotW denied us that opportunity. We didn't get the adventure, we got to hear about it afterwards, and then it expected us to care.

I'd prefer to be able to ...

There's another perfect example within the series, itself -- Ocarina of Time.
The Hyrule of 7 years later isn't harrowing because Castle Town is destroyed, Zora's Domain is frozen over, Kokiri Forest is overrun with monsters, etc. It's harrowing because we, as the player, experienced those areas when they were enjoying peace and prosperity. We walked through those very parts of Hyrule before they went to hell. That jarring shift in atmosphere is far more dismaying than the sights, themselves.

That's kind of Breath of the Wild's conundrum for its story (and even some of its game design), in a nutshell -- expecting the player to be emotionally invested without appropriate buildup to an event.

I think Sheik’s quote summed that up pretty well. Ocarina of Time really drove home that sense that the flow of time is cruel.

Cajbaj · Dec 1st 2018, 2:40am

Castigear wrote:

Cajbaj wrote:

Still off-topic but I don't think the destruction is supposed to be harrowing. You're in these ruins where people once were, but it's portrayed as peaceful and calming. It's been long enough these people would be dead anyway. I've always really enjoyed going to old ghost towns and ruins, to graves out on the plains, and it's not heartbreaking. I'll peacefully pay my respects, but it's all retaken by nature now and that's OK. The entirety of Hyrule is like that. Definitely don't think it's for everyone but it very much appeals to me.

if your entire continent were like that, you would probably feel differently. But I do get what you’re saying. In nier automata, for example, the overgrown cities are almost comforting in the way that nature is reclaiming everything. Same with Horizon.

I dream every day about living decades or even centuries after the apocalypse, don't you even get me started

Thal1989 · Dec 1st 2018, 3:01am

^ Assuming you don't run into any of the horrors that seem to infest Earth every time the apocalypse happens in pop culture

Timothyhoad · Dec 1st 2018, 4:41am

All very interesting and valid points, and I’m particularly interested in how the conversation has shifted from expectations and opinions about Calamity Ganon to the larger picture of how we perceive Hyrule.

Because of this I may start a new thread voicing another area of discussion that I’ve wanted to address called “What do you think happened after the end of the game?”, but I’d still love to hear more opinions about the current topic from players!

Okami Takahashi · Dec 1st 2018, 7:43pm

The concept of Calamity Ganon is interesting. The fight itself was just too easy though. There's no challenge to it, especially if you clear all the divine beasts. Very disappointed. Great concept, terrible execution. Once again, a case of Nintendo not knowing how to perfectly balance story and gameplay.

Thanatos-Zero · Dec 3rd 2018, 7:49am

AllStarNemesis wrote:

I just wish Calamity Ganon actually had a personality and goals.

Personality can be interpret, due his actions.
He is calculating, but also desperate and yearning for a proper vessel to reincarnate, for to return to his prime.
As for his goals, world domination takes a lower priority this time, because he was denied for 10.000 years a body for to live in. So in a crash course, he takes the first move to obliterate the opposition with the guardians and he creates the 4 blights to overtake the divine beasts, so nobody interferes with his reincarnation. Except Zelda stepped in to stop him in this process.

Needless to say, the meddling of Zelda inside of Ganon pretty much denies us taunting villian exposition from Big G himself.
If Big G wouldn't have guarded himself against her, he would have been sealed once again.

In other words, he is pretty much like Malladus at this point but with a wrench thrown in the gears.

Linksis · Dec 19th 2018, 7:43am

Am I alone in not being super grabbed by breath of the wild? I have played zelda since OOT and as a long time zelda fan I don’t appreciate quite a few things. Namely the shrines. It just feels like they went for quantity over quality... they are all practically the same!!! I dont understand this design choice. Why do they all have to look the same! The limited tools at your disposal makes for less puzzle variety... some ppl try to pitch to me that in breath of the wild “the world is your temple” but rolling a boulder of a cliff to grab a korok seed hardly feels like a zelda temple to me.... and what of the story! I must have heard from at least 10 ppl about calamity canon and the divine beasts and it sounds the same each time! Now to be fair breath of the wild definitely has some good going for it I cant deny that. The vast and beautiful world is fun to explore and the cooking system is a pretty cool. Im on the fence about breakable weapons, i dont think its a bad idea i just dont always enjoy it.

Aedan7479 · Dec 22nd 2018, 2:16pm

I'm in the same boat as almost everyone with calamity ganon, cool concept, great for the charater, but badly utilised. I wish that they gave a sort of sauron feel, or for a Zelda comparison, the moon. As for the "first half of ff6" thing, I can't imagine how that would be done gameplay wise, and work with the concept of the whole game, espeially with Link as Zelda's bodyguard. Let's not forget it's called "Breath of the Wild", the idea is to have a wild Hyrule to explore by yourself, and to make Hyrule wild they had almost the entire kingdom collapse and made Calamity Ganon the cause. I think if they had Hyrule Castle clearly visable everywhere, like the moon, made malice enemies harder and linked them back ganon more (maybe let out a roar after a patch of malice was destroyed) and linked him more to the blood moon (just make his roar bring them back in the cutscene) people would find him more a part of the world. As for his bosses, if Link waited longer he should be more powerful anyway, and if they made his weak spot less obvious, like the tail in OOT, that alone would make him alot harder. And for dark beast ganon, give a blood moon climate, make it a chase or at least faster than it is and give him more attacks, it would be harder ans more climatic

Abyss Master · Dec 28th 2018, 7:47pm

Mirren wrote:

There's another perfect example within the series, itself -- Ocarina of Time.
The Hyrule of 7 years later isn't harrowing because Castle Town is destroyed, Zora's Domain is frozen over, Kokiri Forest is overrun with monsters, etc. It's harrowing because we, as the player, experienced those areas when they were enjoying peace and prosperity. We walked through those very parts of Hyrule before they went to hell. That jarring shift in atmosphere is far more dismaying than the sights, themselves.

That's kind of Breath of the Wild's conundrum for its story (and even some of its game design), in a nutshell -- expecting the player to be emotionally invested without appropriate buildup to an event.

~One month later~

I wanted to pick up on this because I think it's an interesting topic and it warrants a follow-up.

The thing I want to push back on is that I don't think Breath of the Wild was designed, in its story or elsewhere, with the expectation that the players are supposed to be emotionally invested in the world or the characters, despite the lack of buildup. I've not seen anything alluding to that fact from developer interviews, and the game itself doesn't give any sort of vibe that it expects you to feel these big emotions about certain locations or characters.

What seems clear to me is that the developers were concerned first and foremost with placing the player directly in Link's shoes, as much as possible. That's why he doesn't have his memory. The expectation here is that Link has no recollection, and thus no emotional attachment, to anything, or anyone, anywhere - just like the players. When he steps out from the Shrine of Resurrection to gaze upon the land of Hyrule, it's not with the intent of making us go "oh, this land I used to know, how it has fallen" - it's our first look at the land beyond.

Breath of the Wild's story is not characterized by shocking twists and jarring shifts in the narrative, like Ocarina of Time - rather, it's melancholy, somberness and even tragedy, complemented perfectly by the game's abundance of calm, quiet moments that play out as you traverse a vast, visibly decaying land. Each memory you retrieve is not just a glimpse at what happened 100 years ago, it's also a sad reminder of the tragic fate that befell the kingdom and its champions when Calamity Ganon struck. In the same way, the quest to reclaim the Divine Beasts is not just a way for you to learn more about the four champions, but is also a sad reminder of their tragic fate and the consequences of their deaths.

The very nature of Breath of the Wild's story, being optional and non-linear, means that many things are left up in the air as you have to be free to choose your starting point, and also to be able to freely choose exactly when you want to scale Hyrule Castle to take on the final boss. Thus, those who are the most invested into the story will also be the ones who get the biggest pay-off, as they will be the ones who tracked down all the memories, freed all the Divine Beasts and even picked up the easy-to-miss tidbits like Zelda and her father's diaries within the castle. It's a very different kind of story; what you get out of it is proportional to what you invest into it.

Ocarina of Time's story was magnificent in its own right, and I would even go so far as to say that it remains the best one in the series, but I don't think Breath of the Wild's story was designed to achieve a similar kind of narrative. Breath of the Wild is more like a post-apocalyptic story, while Ocarina of Time is a true epic.

AllStarNemesis · Dec 28th 2018, 9:40pm

I think the issue with BOTW is that it's an over-correction of what we got in SS. Where SS was super linear and even needed a patch to prevent the game from crashing if you went out of order (when you had to get the 3 dragon songs), BOTW is optional to the max. Shrines are optional, dungeons are optional, korok seeds for inventory expansion are optional, tracking down the flashbacks is optional, the Master Sword is optional, enhancing armor/clothing is optional, DLCs is optional. Nearly everything is optional and it gives the feeling that nothing matters. But we know that it's supposed to.

Picking on the DLC for a minute. You have the Champion's Ballad, which does a lot to expand on the 4 Champion's, how they came to be selected as such and why they joined. Something the BOTW proper neglected to do. For those who play the story parts of BOTW, we receive a lot of exposition from various characters and nearly 2 dozen flashbacks about what happened 100 years ago. We the player can't get invested in it, because we are repeatedly told about events we never saw or got to play.

To use OOT for comparison. Imagine if OOT started when Link woke up in the Temple of Light. You speak to Rauru about what he missed 7 years ago, get the mission to find sages and then departed the ToT to see Hyrule Castle Town and the rest of Hyrule wrecked and under a cloud of darkness. Would OOT still be as great as it is? There's a whole section of the game we didn't get to play and moving forward we dungeon dive to free sages (Champions) who we knew back in the day. Because everyone tells us we knew them. Then go to a castle to fight the big bad and rescue the princess.

That's BOTW's story problem. Coupled with the repeated statement that "everything is optional, so the lobsided story doesn't matter. But it does matter. Because Nintendo releasing DLC and expanded content to bolster the story portion specifically, is an acknowledgement of the main game's short comings in that area. All behind an optional pay wall.

Things would've been so much better if we got to play several missions 100 years ago. We see the Champions be selected, learn what made this Link worthy to wield the MS and be Zelda's knight. All before playing a losing mission (no matter how well you play/are prepared) against Calamity Ganon. Live the Legend! As opposed to chatting with Impa, the king, Purrah, and members of the 4 tribes about what occurred 100 years ago and being told the legend.

Same goes for Calamity Ganon. Dude clean sweeps everyone 100 years ago, with no motive beyond, he's evil and that's what he does. Demise wasn't great, but at least he had goals behind his quest for conquest. Hell, Demise was sealed by Hylia/Zelda and made frequent attempts to free himself and had to be stopped by Link and Groose. Calamity Ganon is confined to the castle and seemingly just chilling there.

Count Deku · Dec 31st 2018, 4:20pm

Yah, after going through all the side quests, completing all the shrines, and doing the DLC main quest, it was rather anti-climactic.

MVS · Dec 31st 2018, 4:48pm

Calamity Ganon should really have been waaaay harder to beat, so that you have a main and good reason to explore the world and get stronger. Aside from the fun of exploring in and of itself... it is pretty meaningless when you just can enter Hyrule Castle anytime and bet the crap out of Ganon. And now I am not talking about skipping the divine beasts, because even after you have done that you can explore tons more of the overworld. And I don't like the design of beating four Blight Ganons in a row just because you didn't cleared out a single divine beast. It feels very redundant and just not fun. Would have been so much better and waaaay more rewarding if Calamity Ganon just was really hard, and you would need every help you could get (many hearts, a lot of food, the "power ups" from the dead champions, etc).

And not a single dialogue from Ganon is an enormous letdown. As I have said before, they just treated him as a normal boss you would find in a temple, like Bongo Bongo or Armogohma, but with more "flashiness" of course since it is the final boss after all.

Abyss Master · Jan 1st 2019, 10:06pm

The whole idea of letting you go straight to Hyrule Castle to fight Calamity Ganon is that it's supposed to be something you actually can do, just not easily. The boss gauntlet is an effective way of doing that; it may not be your idea of fun, but it very easily demonstrates the advantage of defeating the Divine Beasts, beyond just cutting down Calamity Ganon's health before the fight against him begins.

I think the game would have suffered for it if it felt more like the Divine Beasts were a downright requirement to fight Calamity Ganon, rather than a convenient benefit. It would certainly have gotten in the way of the game feeling open-ended.

Of course, there ARE limitations implanted to ensure that you can't just go into Hyrule Castle and "beat the crap out of Ganon", as you put it. First, you need lots of weapons. You can find several of them strewn about within the castle, certainly, but you will also be surrounded by enemies that can kill you very easily if you're not equipped to take the damage head-on. The most reliable weapon to take with you into the fight with Ganon is the Master Sword, but to get it you have to accumulate enough health to pull it from its pedestal, pretty much ensuring that you won't be able to just go get it right from the get-go. Upgrading your equipment so you don't die in a single hit requires that you collect materials from fighting monsters, among other things (shooting arrows at passing dragons is also sometimes required). The most useful piece of equipment, the Champion's Tunic, is locked behind a story mission.

In short, there are several things in the game that were deliberately put there to entice the player into going out and exploring the world as much as possible, and several of those aspects are related to giving you the tools required to face down tougher and tougher enemies. I for one can still remember the initial rush I felt when I finally stormed Hyrule Castle, equipped with the Master Sword and a healthy bunch of Ancient Arrows, and I ended up galloping around the ruins of the castle town while being hunted by several Guardians that I tried to pick off one by one. Having spent the game up until then fleeing from Guardians when faced with more than one, it was just too awesome to be able to sweep through them like that.

You do run the risk of going into the Calamity Ganon fight while overpowered, but I feel like this is something you can say about pretty much every 3D Zelda boss, if you take the time to collect all the heart pieces and get all the optional items. I mean, Majora's Mask lets you take a mask into the final fight that lets you utterly dominate the boss without even an ounce of challenge, yet the Fierce Deity Mask is regarded more fondly than not by the fanbase. As long as you give them the choice of whether to over-prepare.

Max N. · Jan 3rd 2019, 2:01am

I have several perspectives on this, which may not be consistent. I do what I want!

First: I want Nintendo to retire Ganon and Ganondorf entirely for the series. I think his character arc was told as well as it ever could be by the time we finished Wind Waker.

Second: As a general rule, I loathe 1-dimensional demonic antagonists that have no motivation that the audience can sympathize with. Ganondorf was at his best in TWW, and second best in Ocarina of Time. Once they decided to make him a force of elemental evil again, in TP and SS, it was all down hill.

Third: The exception to rule #2 is when a demonic antagonist is used more like a force of nature, or a dark mirror that causes actual introspection and character growth in the protagonist.

Breath of the Wild was a game ABOUT the world, the environment. Personally, as an antagonist I find Calamity Ganon boring, cliched, zero-dimensional, depthless, and thoroughly uninspired. However - BOTW didn't need an antagonist. It needed a force of nature, which is much closer to what we got. I think the problem is that they didn't go far enough in that direction. They made him a villainous antagonist with no agency and no character. They should have instead embraced the fact that he was basically a evil hurricane, and actually made him a presence in the land throughout the game. Like a weather event: "oh shit, it's a Ganon Storm, shit is going down, destruction will rain, monsters will birth". The final boss should have been something that actually rampaged across the landscape and required you to chase it down or fight it all across the landscape of Hyrule. Something where getting to high ground mattered, paragliding was involved, and you had to swap equipment as you moved around. I think the fight against the corrupted Lanayru dragon was a better fit for what a climactic BOTW boss fight should have felt like.

Mechcnially, BOTW's biggest final boss problem was that it was a game all about freedom in a sandbox on beautiful, wide-open spaces... and the final boss consisted of a fight in a tiny arena, and then a highly scripted linear "fight" against something that didn't move in a flat plain.

AllStarNemesis wrote:

GregariousTree wrote:

AllStarNemesis wrote:

Castigear wrote:

Violetlight wrote:

Castigear wrote:

Cajbaj wrote:

Mirren wrote:

Violetlight wrote:

Castigear wrote:

Castigear wrote:

Cajbaj wrote:

AllStarNemesis wrote:

Mirren wrote:

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