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    The Legend of Zelda: ________
    • The problem at present I believe is that we wilted things down too far.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • Currently, the vote is at:

      Display Spoiler
      1. Invisibility - 3 votes
      2. Time-based abilities - 2
      3. Sealing/barrier powers - 2
      4. Light weapon manifestation - 1
      5. Limited gravity manipulation - 2
      6. Short-range teleportation - 2
      7. Limited healing - 1
      8. A large magical blast a la the final battle of OoT - 1
      9. Roc's Feather to facilitate a jumping mechanic - 2
      10. Blue Candle, or an equivalent "eye of truth," possibly Dowsing-esque ability - 2
      11. Magnetic Gloves to allow for a magnesis mechanic (or an equivalent magical power) - 3
      12. Switch Hook (or an equivalent magical power) - 2
      13. Cane of Somaria (or an equivalent magical power) - 3
      14. Flute, for fast travel - 1
      15. Pegasus Boots (o.a.e.m.p.) - 1
      16. Fire and Ice Rods/manipulation - 1
      17. Ring Box System - 1
    • Uh I’ve never heard the phrase ‘wilted down’ but if you mean to say we’ve narrowed it too far I’d disagree.

      Certainly it’d help if other people would weigh in but if we go for what currently has more than one vote there’s enough for an eight dungeon game.

      Display Spoiler
      The list would be:
      1. Invisibility - 3
      2. Time-based abilities - 2
      3. Sealing/barrier powers - 2
      5. Limited gravity manipulation - 2
      6. Short-range teleportation - 2
      9. Roc's Feather to facilitate a jumping mechanic - 2
      10. Blue Candle, or an equivalent "eye of truth," possibly Dowsing-esque ability - 2
      11. Magnetic Gloves to allow for a magnesis mechanic (or an equivalent magical power) - 3
      12. Switch Hook (or an equivalent magical power) - 2
      13. Cane of Somaria (or an equivalent magical power) - 3


      Ten abilities isn’t bad, but if I had to shave it down I’d say the blue flame would overlap with the Findol radar ability, and the switch hook is pretty much the teleport ability but needing a target.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Fal Cie ().

    • If we wanted to pare it down even further, I still say the gravitational power nicely covers the Roc's Feather's function, and the Cane of Somaria's block ability seems like it could easily be an extension of the barrier creation. I believe that would give us an equal number of Sentinel powers for Link and abilities for Zelda, lending itself perfectly to a shared experience between them. It might also make the powers a tad less disjointed.
    • That's kind of the problem with some of those abilities. They may fit nicely under one title but they're so omni applicable that they could serve the functions of ten separate powers all on their own.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • Personally, I don't see that as a problem- it worked well for the Runes in BotW, especially Magnesis. Abilities that do one thing on their face but when applied in unorthodox ways can allow for wholly different mechanics sounds like something worth tinkering with and encouraging. In contrast, having two different abilities that really seem like they should be under one umbrella can make at least one of them feel redundant.
    • And you'll notice something else important about the Runes in BotW. There were only four of them. Not to mention that that is talking about abilities that seem to have one application at face value but can be put to use in creative ways to increase their functionality. Several of the items on your list have six or more applications at face value without even counting what you could do with them if applied creatively. As an example the last time I asked you how the gravity manipulation would function you listed four things off the top of your head, all of which were separate mechanics in their own right and all had the potential for extreme abuse. That's the problem. Maybe if that was the extent of Zelda's skillset it'd be fine but we can't just keep heaping powers on her.

      Ten abilities to match Link's ten sentinel abilities sounds reasonable but it doesn't work if three or four of those on the list are actually five to ten separate abilities under one umbrella. That gives her twenty to thirty abilities, not ten. It's too much.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by TriforceHolder ().

    • I think you’re overreacting, we probably could find more functionality for the powers in the forms of increasingly elaborate puzzles, as is standard in the series.

      But the majority of these powers will only have limited applications for the majority of the game.

      I mean at its core invisibility will just be used for variations of avoiding enemies.

      But if you really think some of these will have excessive uses then list them so we can define and put a limit on them here and now.
    • Setras wrote:

      One application was pitched already- letting Zelda switch what direction gravity takes for her to let her walk on walks, ceilings, and the like as if they were floors. TP already flirted with a similar mechanic via the magnetic walls and the iron boots, and Stone Tower Temple provides a rough template for how to structure a dungeon around multiple orientations.

      Another application could involve reducing the gravity for ambient materials to let them float, forming makeshift platforms and the like. This would initially only be possible with small rocks and such, then progress to things like boulders and certain chunks of landscape.

      Zelda could also reduce gravity for herself for limited flight, likely paired with and used in conjunction with the gravity-orienting power.

      Combat potential should be obvious, reducing the gravity for monsters to lift and disorient them, increasing the gravity to send them crashing down, crushing enemies into a single point, etc. Again, not all abilities accessible from the get-go and we'd need to be careful not to make them broken, but that's standard procedure when developing a mechanic.

      Combinations of these mechanics, and others, would facilitate some parts of Zelda's components of the temples and parts of the overworld, with her going to areas Link fundamentally can't access to aid him in otherwise unreachable ways.

      None of that sounds excessive? Bear in mind that's one power.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • Not really, the first two paragraphs sound like they would only be usable in certain areas, like the spinner and it’s tracks.

      The combat paragraph is just spitballing ideas on how it’ll be used. We don’t need to have all these applications available, we can just stick with one effect, especially when all those listed boils down to ‘stops enemies in an area from moving’
      I do think that flight or jumping should be a separate power however.

      In any case that’s just one power, you made it sound like every one had excessive uses.

      Keep in mind you were fine with the magnetic glove, do you remember how many applications that item had in OoS?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Fal Cie ().

    • There were five that I had serious reservations about. I didn't read the revised list you put out clearly and going over it only three actually made the cut. That's my mistake.

      Gravity manipulation I've spoken of at length. I think it's too wide a power sphere so if we go with it we do entirely gravity based mechanics of various shapes and forgo everything else. It's one of those ideas that's too big to just one of many. It'll either feel like this mechanic is eclipsing all the other ones or it's going to feel like an interesting idea that the developers entirely failed to do anything with.

      Time based powers. This falls into the same category as gravity. You're talking about controlling a fundamental force that holds reality together. So either you go big, give it the kind of attention that kind of concept is due and all the other abilities suddenly seem irrelevant or you keep it the same size as the other mechanics and an incredibly powerful idea that is severely under utilised. If Zelda can control such amazing things as time and gravity you're going to leave the audience wondering "what's she doing mucking around with a magic cape and a pouch full of seeds".

      The last one was the sealing barrier idea, but to be fair I was more concerned with the way Setras was talking about it than the actual concept itself. That in mind its best not to turn something into a problem before it shows any signs of becoming one.

      The majority of these powers do one thing. The Roc's Feather, it jumps, that's all it does. The Switch Hook, it teleports, that's all it does. We can find nuanced applications for this one power but fundamentally it is still doing one thing. Gravity and time on the other hand can potentially do hundreds of things. This is what it comes down to, look at these powers, find the one thing you actually want them to do and give it a new name that befits it's function. If you name a power that could do a hundred things and it only does one thing it's going to feel cheap.

      Here it is, time and gravity. What do you guys actually want those to do? The others are all extremely transparent. Those two aren't.

      No, actually I remember the magnetic gloves as being next to useless in OoS. They had a very small number of uses that became by and large irrelevant once you got outside the dungeon you found them in. If I remember correctly, they made combating two types of enemies easier, they were used against their dungeon boss, they could be used to cross specific pits that had been designed for them and they moved around a type of metallic block for puzzle solving. It didn't really add up to all that much.

      As a side note: the Switch Hook and the short ranged teleportation essentially do the same thing except the Switch Hook provides a well defined targeting system and set of limitations to the teleportation which as a concept is a bit nebulous. And I think Smash Bros should teach us how well a combat teleport without a proper aiming system works. I vote those get rolled into one.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by TriforceHolder ().

    • See when you put it that way the gravity power has the same number of uses as the magnetic gloves.

      On rereading Setras’ comment it seems that the effect on enemies is enhanced as the power increases, first a lift, then a lift and slam, finally a lift and slam into one area.

      Are you seriously kicking up this fuss because of a placeholder name? Fine let’s work through it.
      If I had to state how I’d want the power to work it would be like magnesis, it can only lift certain objects in the environment, we can place them and leave them suspended for a window of time, it can only be used on one object at a time.
      When used otherwise it creates a gravity well that sucks enemies and projectiles in for a brief period of time.

      In terms of the time power I was thinking that it would focus on slowing enemies or certain objects. I would give it three uses at a time, so you could slow three things at once, for a period of time. Alternatively if you use it twice on the same object it slows further, use it thrice and it stops completely.

      I’m not good with names but gun to my head I’d go with FF standard spell names and call them Float and Slow.

      Your remark on the switch hook and teleport is essentially what I said, I would make the teleport function essentially as a slate power, highlighting where a valid warp spot is then sending you there when selected.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Fal Cie ().

    • Alright, it's been a little while now, so in the interest of drumming up discussion and moving forward, I've set the gravity and time abilities aside. That leaves us with the following list:

      Display Spoiler
      1. Invisibility

      2. Sealing/barrier powers

      3. Short-range teleportation

      4. Roc's Feather to facilitate a jumping mechanic

      5. Blue Candle, or an equivalent "eye of truth," possibly Dowsing-esque ability

      6. Magnetic Gloves to allow for a magnesis mechanic (or an equivalent magical power)

      7. Switch Hook (or an equivalent magical power)

      8. Cane of Somaria (or an equivalent magical power)


      There are also the Sentinel abilities for Link, with the possible exception of the Wolfos:

      Display Spoiler
      Wolfos: Link's entire front half, his shield arm particularly, is encased in an impregnable barrier, but he's left vulnerable to back attacks.
      Found in a tundra area.

      Heatoise: Link gains a full-body tortoise shell like encasement and the ability to rapidly move by swivelling around, and is protected from damage for the duration, but has no control over his movement and will bounce off walls and obstacles.
      Found in a volcano, likely Death Mountain/Eldin.

      Syger: Link gains temporary ethereal claws that both easily slice through enemies and can make digging considerably faster, but for a brief period after use loses all use of his arms.
      Found in a jungle-type area.

      Loftwing: Essentially Revali's Gale, but allows for actual flight rather than updrafts and gliding. During flight, Link is vulnerable to airborne hazards like wind currents.
      Found on a mountain, possibly Snowpeak.

      Keaton: Link gains limited teleportation in one of eight directions (and possibly a use under certain conditions as an improved fast travel), but if used three times in succession, he becomes exhausted and must rest for a bit, leaving him open to attacks.
      Found in a plain.

      Findol: Link gains the ability to produce echolocation-esque noises to serve as diversions and scout out for secrets and passages, but he has to close his eyes to use it. (Sort of a slightly more flexible form of Dowsing.)
      Found in some large body of water, Lake Hylia being the obvious choice.

      Deer/Helmasaur(?): Link gains a ramming attack that both shatters an opponents defenses and throws them overhead and to the ground, but Link's defenses are diminished in kind and hits take much more damage than usual.
      Found in a forest, likely the Lost Woods.

      Moth: Link can leech health directly from nearby foes, but is forcibly pulled toward powerful light sources and bound to them until the ability is dismissed or runs out.
      Found in a swamp.


      Based on those, I think we might be able to start rough concepts for dungeons.
    • Alright, I think the Invisibility based dungeon should be early on in the game before you have an extreme number of combat options. That way it makes the stealth elements of the dungeon feel more natural as by and large at a certain point in Zelda games stealth sections seem to feel a little odd as you have so many abilities that if it weren't for whatever measures make it so the game won't let you fight your way through the area you could definitely just kill everything you are stealthing past.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • I don't know if we need to limit the invisibility to one dungeon alone- if this is gonna be structured like ALttP with the dungeons sectioned off into neat sets, then mechanics introduced in the first set should come into play from the second set onward, and so on and so forth. It could also be a useful tool for designing the Surface overworld, since the whole function of it gameplay-wise is providing exploration-based challenges.

      But yes, having the temple where invisibility is first acquired and used be among the first set might be a good idea.
    • I meant the Invisibility based temple. Obviously the mechanic will crop up over and over again down the line but (assuming we're doing a somewhat traditional style) the temple that it is found in will revolve entirely around that gimmick and it's much easier to justify stealth sections before the player has capabilities that logically should allow them to wipe out the enemies they're stealthing past. In addition if it's one of the first abilities we can really go nuts on the types of stealth based puzzles and stuff without having to incorporate gimmicks that will be found later down the line. The first gimmicks we introduce will end up being used more often than the ones that appear at the very end of the line. In that vein I'd vote that the Roc's Feather be an early acquisition as well.

      I still think Link could have taken out everyone in Gerudo Fortress.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • TriforceHolder wrote:

      I meant the Invisibility based temple. Obviously the mechanic will crop up over and over again down the line but (assuming we're doing a somewhat traditional style) the temple that it is found in will revolve entirely around that gimmick and it's much easier to justify stealth sections before the player has capabilities that logically should allow them to wipe out the enemies they're stealthing past. In addition if it's one of the first abilities we can really go nuts on the types of stealth based puzzles and stuff without having to incorporate gimmicks that will be found later down the line. The first gimmicks we introduce will end up being used more often than the ones that appear at the very end of the line. In that vein I'd vote that the Roc's Feather be an early acquisition as well.

      I still think Link could have taken out everyone in Gerudo Fortress.
      You can still stealth them with arrows.

      Sig by TruEdge67, Glorious Newbie Overlord