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Majora's Mafia Day 5 - Town Wins!
  • Kae wrote:

    Cody wrote:

    I don't think we should be focussing primarily on the dead players either, since presumably most of them are town because night deaths should be the result of Mafia kills. I don't think it's wise to just 100% colour them all in as confirmed town and honestly I think we could have done more with the roles if Kae hadn't forced them to be revealed right away, e.g. the way BackSet was able to claim and then have Orion confirm his role.
    The way I saw it, was that we would either end up with a handful of role claims for Orion to out, giving mafia people a list of roles to pick from to kill; or we could use that information in a different way to pool together a group of people with confirmed roles. The town can now analyze vote patterns to some extent without more than the now claimed Backset and reveal of Violo.
    I prefer to have the knowledge of the roles that exist (like your T3 games), especially when I don't see any typical mafia role names on there.

    Also, let's say someone refused to claim, or utilize Orion publically like Backset did, and was then voted for, for not cooperating and ended up being our Doctor. (shrug) I think this was the way to go.
    @Kae Hey, I must have missed this post. I still don't know if I agree, but this does makes sense. And I guess we are using that information a lot today, so I retract my suspicion of your motivations for getting the list released. Still don't at all agree about not talking about the previously dead players.

    HollowmanOfEoL wrote:

    GregariousTree wrote:

    Question regarding Bombs:

    Cody mentioned earlier that Bombs might be a role that would try to get itself lynched, and then only a little bit ago Sabbo mentioned the Bomb role as being potentially scummy. So I looked it up and in the mafiascum wiki the Bomb role is mentioned as being "strongly Town-aligned," and that it works by automatically killing it's killer if it is killed at night.

    So I'm a little confused. Does the Bomb role work differently at ZU? It seems to be not scummy at all, nor would there be any reason for a Bomb to try and get itself lynched.
    The bombs I have seen, granted not many but only on ZU, has been mafia and the last or the first to vote on the bomb gets blown up if lynched.
    That's interesting. So pretty much the exact opposite of the role as outlined on the wiki, lol.
    A dark chase requires a silent hound, and deep roots are not reached by the frost.
  • GregariousTree wrote:

    Question regarding Bombs:

    Cody mentioned earlier that Bombs might be a role that would try to get itself lynched, and then only a little bit ago Sabbo mentioned the Bomb role as being potentially scummy. So I looked it up and in the mafiascum wiki the Bomb role is mentioned as being "strongly Town-aligned," and that it works by automatically killing it's killer if it is killed at night.

    So I'm a little confused. Does the Bomb role work differently at ZU? It seems to be not scummy at all, nor would there be any reason for a Bomb to try and get itself lynched.
    Did I? I think the role I mentioned back early in the game that wanted to get lynched was Jester, but as Hollowman says the use of Bomb-type roles has been mixed in ZU history.
  • HollowmanOfEoL wrote:

    Oh yeah, @Violothesheikahboy.
    Since people has outed you as the poisoner.
    Did you target Lady Sunshine with your poison or was it another force that let her kill someone?
    No, I killed Don.
    "I was defeated by the mere sight of the innkeepers skirt length!"
    -Qrow Branwen

    "I know this might be hard to believe, General, but uh... I'm not the biggest fan of local law enforcement."
    -Roman Torchwick
  • @GregariousTree Since people are digging into the subject a bit more again, as far as roles that have never been or are very unlikely to be Mafia on this list, I'll mark them in green for you and others unfamiliar with the earlier library of ZU Mafia games:

    Doctor
    Inventor
    Universal Backup
    Bomb/Motivator
    Informed Townie
    Ghostwhisperer/Poisoner
    Double Voter
    Nexus/1-Shot Modifier Cop

    A more detailed explanation role-by-role:

    Doctor: Mafia Doctors have existed in ZU games before, but generally speaking only in games which have several killers, e.g. a vig and serial killer both wandering around. A Mafia Doctor would be a fundamentally useless role if the Mafia has the game's only consistent kill.

    Inventor: By their nature, they are balanced out by the fact that they don't know whether they're giving items to Town or Mafia. A Mafia Inventor thus would be imbalanced as they would just feed new abilities to their own team each day. I believe we may have had a Mafia Inventor before, but it was in a game with two inventors and I think maybe three factions.

    Universal Backup: On the list I put it in Green but didn't bold because we've never seen it used as Mafia in ZU games, but there's not actually a game balance reason why the Mafia couldn't have a Universal Backup for their own roles. I don't think it's the case here, but I wouldn't be outraged if it did happen.

    Bomb/Motivator: Foo helpfully provided some background about the history of the Bomb role in the Hub while I was typing this - basically we've deviated from the Mafiascum definition of the role. It's traditionally been a Mafia role here but there's no reason that it has to be. Motivators can be of either alignment.

    Informed Townie: For obvious reasons, if this is a Mafia role I will complain after the game lol

    Ghostwhisperer/Poisoner: Mediums have gone either way on this website, but we don't use them often enough to make a trend (this may only be the second or third time), as dead chats can be a nuisance in terms of making sure there aren't any information leaks that accidentally impact the game. Poisoner is traditionally a Mafia role with the purpose of slipping through Doctor/Watcher etc. defenses, but again there's no reason it has to be. In this case it could also be a variant of Town Night Vigilante that's just thematic to something from the Majora's Mask game flavor.

    Double Voter: My current opinion is that we possibly have two people with this role, and one is Mafia aligned (for balance reasons). I don't have direct proof on that specific variant of a vote manipulation role, but I'm pretty sure we have at least three vote manipulation roles unless Solsetur just messes up his vote counts a lot, and I doubt they're all town.

    Nexus / One Shot Modifier Cop: Nexus is usually used here as a townie role that hurts the town. Like a pair of Town Lovers, it's a way to balance a Town that's slightly too strong by muddling people's investigative results. Not impossible for it to be Mafia though. Modifier Cop can go either way - Alignment Cops have to be Town because the Mafia by definition already knows everyone's alignments (unless it's a game with more than two factions), but Role/Modifier/Flavor Cop abilities can be sprinkled around as a neutral role.
  • HollowmanOfEoL wrote:


    @epicstar
    Sleep tight mister.
    As per one of your recent posts, I take it you are sleeping so...
    You are forthcoming to questions, but I would like for you to ask questions as well.
    But also to answer questions, new questions, one of my newest and greatest inventions!
    With regards to your own role, due to how you answered Kae's question, you do feel useful to the town?
    I am awake! I'll try to ask more questions from now on.

    As for the question, I feel like my role is fairly useful to the town, but only if I use it correctly. It's not as useful as finding roles or anything, but if I have the right ideas then it can help. Like, it's usefulness is based on my own reads of who is Mafia and who isn't.
  • Cody wrote:

    @GregariousTree Since people are digging into the subject a bit more again, as far as roles that have never been or are very unlikely to be Mafia on this list, I'll mark them in green for you and others unfamiliar with the earlier library of ZU Mafia games:

    Doctor
    Inventor
    Universal Backup
    Bomb/Motivator

    Informed Townie
    Ghostwhisperer/Poisoner
    Double Voter
    Nexus/1-Shot Modifier Cop
    A more detailed explanation role-by-role:

    Doctor: Mafia Doctors have existed in ZU games before, but generally speaking only in games which have several killers, e.g. a vig and serial killer both wandering around. A Mafia Doctor would be a fundamentally useless role if the Mafia has the game's only consistent kill.

    Inventor: By their nature, they are balanced out by the fact that they don't know whether they're giving items to Town or Mafia. A Mafia Inventor thus would be imbalanced as they would just feed new abilities to their own team each day. I believe we may have had a Mafia Inventor before, but it was in a game with two inventors and I think maybe three factions.

    Universal Backup: On the list I put it in Green but didn't bold because we've never seen it used as Mafia in ZU games, but there's not actually a game balance reason why the Mafia couldn't have a Universal Backup for their own roles. I don't think it's the case here, but I wouldn't be outraged if it did happen.

    Bomb/Motivator: Foo helpfully provided some background about the history of the Bomb role in the Hub while I was typing this - basically we've deviated from the Mafiascum definition of the role. It's traditionally been a Mafia role here but there's no reason that it has to be. Motivators can be of either alignment.

    Informed Townie: For obvious reasons, if this is a Mafia role I will complain after the game lol

    Ghostwhisperer/Poisoner: Mediums have gone either way on this website, but we don't use them often enough to make a trend (this may only be the second or third time), as dead chats can be a nuisance in terms of making sure there aren't any information leaks that accidentally impact the game. Poisoner is traditionally a Mafia role with the purpose of slipping through Doctor/Watcher etc. defenses, but again there's no reason it has to be. In this case it could also be a variant of Town Night Vigilante that's just thematic to something from the Majora's Mask game flavor.

    Double Voter: My current opinion is that we possibly have two people with this role, and one is Mafia aligned (for balance reasons). I don't have direct proof on that specific variant of a vote manipulation role, but I'm pretty sure we have at least three vote manipulation roles unless Solsetur just messes up his vote counts a lot, and I doubt they're all town.

    Nexus / One Shot Modifier Cop: Nexus is usually used here as a townie role that hurts the town. Like a pair of Town Lovers, it's a way to balance a Town that's slightly too strong by muddling people's investigative results. Not impossible for it to be Mafia though. Modifier Cop can go either way - Alignment Cops have to be Town because the Mafia by definition already knows everyone's alignments (unless it's a game with more than two factions), but Role/Modifier/Flavor Cop abilities can be sprinkled around as a neutral role.
    I colored the Bomb/Motivator green to prove why knowing the list should be helpful to the town. We know 5 of the 8 roles are town. Yup, we know the bomb is green.

    Now, fellow townies, do the remaining three roles scream "kill it now!" do they greatly threaten our play or scream mafia? Do we feel like our time is best spent trying to decipher who is who from this list to get to the bottom of who our Nexus or Double Voter is? Or should we take into consideration that one of those eight players is a nexus, and be careful of your results, and one of those players has the power to vote for two during the day, great.

    This is why I think our attention is better spent off of this list @GregariousTree. If I saw "Godfather", "Roleblocker", "Hammerer", "Role Cop" on that list, I'd be singing a different tune of inspriation to FOCUS on that list. However, those three unknown alignment roles do not inspire me put pressure on those who died. I'm looking to hit some truly scum people.