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Current Existing OoT Split Timeline Branches are just What-If Scenarios?
  • I normally don't like to do theories cause they almost always lead to heated arguments, but I'm making an exception for this one cause I think it's really interesting and something that Nintendo might actually confirm later on. I even set this thread as Fun cause it's really just a cool fun idea I thought of that I personally think makes sense a would fix the problem with the timeline if it were made true, and so to avoid causing arguments, I'm treating this as something that really isn't meant to taken seriously or treated as fact unless confirmed true. Especially since this isn't really confirmed true, so it's not fact, but it does have solid evidence to back it. But until unless it's confirmed fact, please don't treat this as fact or think like I'm treating this as fact. Even though I do follow by this idea for my headcanon and fanon, I know that officially it's not fact, so please don't think like I think it is, when I know it is. This is just a theory that inspired my headcanon and fanon.

    So, the idea is that the branches of the timeline, after OoT never actually happened and are just based on legends, myths, and fairytales of Hero of Time's defeat and his triumph. The defeat myth claims that the Hero of Time lost to Ganon, and thus resulted the events of the Downfall Timeline. The triumphant myth splits into two claims, one where the Hero of Time disappeared, so the world was flooded, while the other claims he married Malon and was never recognized as the Hero.

    However, as the OoT game itself suggests and even in MM, all of these of false. The Hero of Time was recognized as hero, because he was the one who warned everyone of Ganondorf's plan, after he was sent back, which is the only canon ending of OoT. Second, MM tells us a legend of a Hero, that is held dearly by the royal family. So maybe MM is also a just a myth as it is in the Child Timeline, which didn't happen. But the point is that such a legend about the Hero of Time was held dearly by the Royal Family says a lot, that tells us that, OoT Link was, actually recognized as the Hero of Time after OoT.

    And Link never could've married Malon in the end cause she wanted a handsome knight in charming shinning armor, not a handsome knight in green clothes (Hero's Clothes) or even in scary intimidating armor (Hero's Shade Armor). So there's no way that TP could've happened. Also the way Ganondorf was subdued with Link out of the picture also makes no sense since Link was there when was the warned everyone in the first place, so he had to be there when Ganondorf is subdued.

    Also WW can't happen because it's timeline's logic of time makes no sense. A timeline after someone being sent back to likely change things can't continue to exist long enough for a bunch of stuff to happen. It's impossible no matter what you say. And ALttP can't happen because Link never lost in OoT canonically.

    So that just leaves one question. What really happened after OoT, after Link was sent back and warned everyone of Ganondorf's plot? BotW? Okay, that's possible, only one problem though. The game is contradicting as hell! But that's actually a story that I've explained enough about in the headcanons thread for now. And I also already explained the geography thing in the headcanons thread as well.

    Anyways, now for some visual evidence of why I think Nintendo could potentially make this happen. So feast your eyes on these pictures of the official timeline:



    As you can see, there's a middle space in between the two sections, as if there's meant to be something to eventually go there at some point. Also, in the bottom section, it shows that "Time Splits Again". So maybe the Adult Timeline really does happen if Link stayed in the future. But even so, that never happened in OoT, so it would still be a what-if. Anyways, each option you choose always directs a line going to the middle part, but when that happens, there's also a broken space between the end of the first line and second line, and the same with the third line. It just feels off to me. Like the only true continuity should be on the one same first line, not the broken off second or third ones.

    That all said, I believe that there still isn't any true continuity after OoT, but there will be at some point. How that would work if it did happen. We would have to wait and see.

    Anyways, that's all for now. Keep in mind that this is just a theory that inspired my headcanon and fanon, not official fact. Well, anyways, hope you at least enjoyed the read.
    The True Zelda Timeline:
    ----------------/>WW|PH>ST
    SS>MC>FS>OoT|MM>TP>FSA>HW(original)>BotW(2014 version)
    ----------------\>ALttP|OoX|LA(original)>ALBW>TFH>TLoZ|TAoL
  • PJCLink wrote:

    So, the idea is that the branches of the timeline, after OoT never actually happened and are just based on legends, myths, and fairytales of Hero of Time's defeat and his triumph. The defeat myth claims that the Hero of Time lost to Ganon, and thus resulted the events of the Downfall Timeline. The triumphant myth splits into two claims, one where the Hero of Time disappeared, so the world was flooded, while the other claims he married Malon and was never recognized as the Hero.

    The thing about the previous games being considered myth by later games in the timeline falls as something of a cop out when it comes to the devs explaining inconsistencies in the timeline.

    The in game explanation that they give is that later generations have little evidence left to go on to officially prove the stories as fact, so some of the details they create about the past are simply their interpretation with assumed data where actual data is missing. A puzzle where the missing pieces are replaced with recreated versions of what the people "think" might go there.



    PJCLink wrote:

    However, as the OoT game itself suggests and even in MM, all of these of false. The Hero of Time was recognized as hero, because he was the one who warned everyone of Ganondorf's plan, after he was sent back, which is the only canon ending of OoT. Second, MM tells us a legend of a Hero, that is held dearly by the royal family. So maybe MM is also a just a myth as it is in the Child Timeline, which didn't happen. But the point is that such a legend about the Hero of Time was held dearly by the Royal Family says a lot, that tells us that, OoT Link was, actually recognized as the Hero of Time after OoT.

    There is no such claim that the HoT married Malon or was the Heroe's Shade. These notions are just really popular fan theories and have yet to be proven true or false officially by Nintendo.
    Until it is proven that the HS and the HoT are one and the same there are no contradictions to speak of when it comes to who was remembered as a Hero and who wasn't.


    PJCLink wrote:

    And Link never could've married Malon in the end cause she wanted a handsome knight in charming shinning armor, not a handsome knight in green clothes (Hero's Clothes) or even in scary intimidating armor (Hero's Shade Armor). So there's no way that TP could've happened. Also the way Ganondorf was subdued with Link out of the picture also makes no sense since Link was there when was the warned everyone in the first place, so he had to be there when Ganondorf is subdued.

    While we can't confirm that they did get married, We can't confirm that they did not either as there is not enough evidence for either, however more evidence points towards the latter. It's just as likely that Link married Romani or a completely unseen person as it is Malon.

    A gossip stone over hearing Malon's dreams of a knight in shining armor is just that. Gossip. This is a typical 10 year old girls fantasy for most part anyway. Chances are her "ideal" man changed several times as she got older. Link winning the approval of Epona also has the potential to sway Malon's opinion of Link from "Some fairy boy with strange clothes" to "That totally awesome guy who liberated myself and the ranch from my controlling uncle then galloped off into the sunset with a horse that doesn't like anyone but me."

    Remember, Ruto did not begin to favor Link until after she witnessed his bravery and rescued her from Barinade. Bottom line, Opinion's can change.

    MM's was a personal journey for Link to find a lost friend. I doubt he was required to appear before Ganondorf for his capture or execution as at this point he was just a messenger boy.
    They rewarded him for his actions and gave him parting gifts for his journey which included a hero's shield and the OOT (Which Zelda entrusted with Link for safe keeping so that it didn't fall into the wrong hands.)

    PJCLink wrote:

    Also WW can't happen because it's timeline's logic of time makes no sense. A timeline after someone being sent back to likely change things can't continue to exist long enough for a bunch of stuff to happen. It's impossible no matter what you say. And ALttP can't happen because Link never lost in OoT canonically.

    It all depends on how you perceive the concept of time and what rules you set for time travel.

    All this being said I don't want you to think I am trying to strike your theory down where it stands. It's always fun to see people think outside the box and I encourage more from you so keep it up.
    Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the ability to overcome it.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by MORPHRELINK ().

  • MORPHRELINK wrote:

    There is no such claim that the HoT married Malon or was the Heroe's Shade. These notions are just really popular fan theories and have yet to be proven true or false officially by Nintendo.
    Until it is proven that the HS and the HoT are one and the same there are no contradictions to speak of when it comes to who was remembered as a Hero and who wasn't.
    My whole point there is that Link being a ranch boy in TP indicates strong evidence that OoT Link married a ranch girl. And since Romani is from a land that went from being a parallel world to a nearby land, and now to a dream world, a lot of people find it more likely that it was Malon who OoT Link married in the TP timeline.

    Also, the Hero's Shade, according to the official timeline is actually officially confirmed to be the Hero of Time. At least as a theory that is acknowledged by Nintendo themselves and one that has been proven by many to be very likely based on the wolf songs being the same songs from OoT and MM.

    MORPHRELINK wrote:

    While we can't confirm that they did get married, We can't confirm that they did not either as there is not enough evidence for either, however more evidence points towards the latter. It's just as likely that Link married Romani or a completely unseen person as it is Malon.
    Again, since Romani is from a world of mystery, a lot of people find it more likely that it was Malon. But again, this only a thing indicated in the TP timeline, which I still strongly disagree with. Especially since Nintendo has been pushing hard for Zelink to be the true official shipping in the actual lore canon continuity. Which contradicts TP.

    MORPHRELINK wrote:

    A gossip stone over hearing Malon's dreams of a knight in shining armor is just that. Gossip. This is a typical 10 year old girls fantasy for most part anyway. Chances are her "ideal" man changed several times as she got older. Link winning the approval of Epona also has the potential to sway Malon's opinion of Link from "Some fairy boy with strange clothes" to "That totally awesome guy who liberated myself and the ranch from my controlling uncle then galloped off into the sunset with a horse that doesn't like anyone but me."
    True, but that doesn't mean that she'll automatically chose Link in the end just because he helped her. In real life, girls only see heroes as just a fantasy crush that never lasts. Over time, they eventually grow out of it, meet a man of their own league, and then drop their hero fantasies into the water.

    However, Princess Zelda doesn't do this, as her past self as Hylia chose Link specifically as her hero. And Zelda's a tomboy, yes, according to gossip, but then in the future she appears as Sheik, which pretty much speaks for itself that the gossip is true. This girl is more than just another pretty princess. She's badass. And she's just as important as Link. Not mention she's the only who ever cared anything of Link more than just that of a brave hero. She's bound to him. And he's bound to her. Nintendo has made this clear that that shipping is the one they intended since the first three games.

    That said, there is no way, Malink, Rolink, or Rulink could ever happen. Meaning that TP can't be the true continuity, and just another myth or fairytale.

    MORPHRELINK wrote:

    Remember, Ruto did not begin to favor Link until after she witnessed his bravery and rescued her from Barinade. Bottom line, Opinion's can change.
    Again true, but remember that Ruto was still very young then, even in the future. Once she meets man more like her that makes more sense for her and is more compatible for her, she'd drop Link like a hot potato. So yes, opinion's can change even Ruto's later opinion of Link as she thinks him her fiancee. In time, she'll realize that there's another man for her. This also kills TP and BotW ever being the true continuity.

    MORPHRELINK wrote:

    MM's was a personal journey for Link to find a lost friend. I doubt he was required to appear before Ganondorf for his capture or execution as at this point he was just a messenger boy.
    They rewarded him for his actions and gave him parting gifts for his journey which included a hero's shield and the OOT (Which Zelda entrusted with Link for safe keeping so that it didn't fall into the wrong hands.)
    Seeing as Link was the one who stopped Ganon in the future and is the only one who can truly stop him period, I find this hard to believe. Therefore, again, makes TP not the proper continuity as it contradicts the whole point why Hyrule even has a Hero in the first place. Same goes with the ALttP timeline as well for the same reasons.

    Link is the only one who can truly subdue Ganondorf. And Zelda knew this even before OoT even started. So it makes more sense that in the proper continuity, Link has to be there when Ganondorf is subdued and defeated in the present.

    Zelda wouldn't just drop Link's destiny altogether, especially not after Link confirmed Zelda's dreams of the future, that what she foresaw of Ganondorf's intentions were true. In real life, if Link's destiny was suddenly denied, especially after confirming to Zelda that she was right all along, that would only make Link hate Hyrule and join forces with Ganondorf. Which still would make TP not the proper continuity of that timeline. Denying Link's destiny would only make Hyrule look like a bunch of a**holes to Link and give him reason to betray them in favor of joining Ganondorf, who he would then betray later on, when he's older, since he knows he can best Ganondorf, with even the Biggoron Sword.

    And with Link as an unstoppable force, Hyrule would instantly realize their mistake in messing with the Hero of Time, which at point they would have made into a Villain of Time.

    Anyways my whole point was that neither of those timelines as the true proper continuity due to how contradicting and inconsistent they are to OoT's lore, the franchise vital traditional convention of Zelink, the importance of Link as the hero, world, and the laws of time. That said, is why I believe in this idea of OoT actually still being the latest canon proper consistent continuity game in the timeline. MM may have actually still happened but it's just a side story though. Hence it's original name, Zelda Gaiden, which means Zelda side story.

    Well anyways, again, this is just theory. So I know it's not confirmed. Therefore, unless confirmed true, this theory isn't meant to be treated as official fact.
    The True Zelda Timeline:
    ----------------/>WW|PH>ST
    SS>MC>FS>OoT|MM>TP>FSA>HW(original)>BotW(2014 version)
    ----------------\>ALttP|OoX|LA(original)>ALBW>TFH>TLoZ|TAoL
  • As a broad stroke of a retort to most of your previous reply I'll say this.

    It's clear your information is coming from other peoples fan theories and being treated as personal head cannon. (You've said as much yourself.) And that's fine. You're welcome to believe that within your head cannon the timelines don't make sense. But there are a lot of conclusions that you jump to and I would caution making assumptions without hardened evidence backing them up. The information you've provided is ambiguous, open for interpretation, and inconclusive at best. (As are most theories).

    PJCLink wrote:

    My whole point there is that Link being a ranch boy in TP indicates strong evidence that OoT Link married a ranch girl. And since Romani is from a land that went from being a parallel world to a nearby land, and now to a dream world, a lot of people find it more likely that it was Malon who OoT Link married in the TP timeline.
    Again going off what other people theorize to be possible as the idea of what kind of land Termina was is hotly up for debate. The only real evidence we have to go on is Aounuma telling us that it is a nearby country and that it "Feels like a parallel world."

    But if all the HoT had to do was marry a Ranch girl then Anju would be a likely candidate as well, Seeing as how she was raising Cucoo's in Kakariko Village. Obviously there is a gap in age but if Kefei can marry Anju's Counter part in MM's it's not a far fetch to say a young Link and adult Anju couldn't do the same. Either one would result in the desired theory that Link being a ranch hand in TP is a result of him being born into a ranchers family.

    However, I feel the need to point out that Link himself is never stated to be born a rancher, just that his job at the beginning of TP is that of a rancher. On a ranch that he does not even live on himself or own in any capacity.Nor is he stated to be related to the owners. One does not have to marry a girl who works at Burger King to have a child that gets employed at Burger King as a teenager.

    So whether or not the HoT married or never had children is irrelevant to TP Link's existence and job title.

    PJCLink wrote:

    Also, the Hero's Shade, according to the official timeline is actually officially confirmed to be the Hero of Time. At least as a theory that is acknowledged by Nintendo themselves and one that has been proven by many to be very likely based on the wolf songs being the same songs from OoT and MM.
    You immediately disproved your first sentence with your second one. Nintendo giving a seal of approval on a book that acknowledges a well accepted fan theory as a " well accepted fan theory" is not official proof of said theory to be cannon.

    Alternate History of The Hero's Shade

    I don't typically refer others to what little theory posts I've made but the point is, Alternative theories and debunker's exist if you take the time look for them. They are especially prominent on this site.

    Further more, the songs the HoT plays in OOT are passed on to him from other people who have also learned their respective songs from previous generations within their families. This would suggest a much older origin than OOT.

    PJCLink wrote:

    True, but that doesn't mean that she'll automatically chose Link in the end just because he helped her. In real life, girls only see heroes as just a fantasy crush that never lasts. Over time, they eventually grow out of it, meet a man of their own league, and then drop their hero fantasies into the water.

    However, Princess Zelda doesn't do this, as her past self as Hylia chose Link specifically as her hero. And Zelda's a tomboy, yes, according to gossip, but then in the future she appears as Sheik, which pretty much speaks for itself that the gossip is true. This girl is more than just another pretty princess. She's badass. And she's just as important as Link. Not mention she's the only who ever cared anything of Link more than just that of a brave hero. She's bound to him. And he's bound to her. Nintendo has made this clear that that shipping is the one they intended since the first three games.

    That said, there is no way, Malink, Rolink, or Rulink could ever happen. Meaning that TP can't be the true continuity, and just another myth or fairytale.
    Most heroes never actually interact with their fans. This is usually why the fandom dies over time. Link on the other hand spent a reasonable amount of time with Malon making him a friend rather than some illusive hero.

    While it's certainly possible that Link and Zelda became a couple I wouldn't say that this is always the case when it comes to these games. You're welcome to ship them together if you like but their relationship has little impact on their successors incarnations as shown in WW.

    Try to remember Saria cared for Link far more than Zelda did in OOT and Navi was bound to him as well. Saria actually worried about Link's safety and didn't want him to leave the forest for fear of never seeing him again and although Zelda acknowledges a familiar feeling of having met him before she does not express similar compassion or concern for his safety in this regard.
    Zelda learning to become the Sheik has nothing to do with her personality as a child. She was taught by Impa as a means of self defense against Ganondorf.

    PJCLink wrote:

    Again true, but remember that Ruto was still very young then, even in the future. Once she meets man more like her that makes more sense for her and is more compatible for her, she'd drop Link like a hot potato. So yes, opinion's can change even Ruto's later opinion of Link as she thinks him her fiancee. In time, she'll realize that there's another man for her. This also kills TP and BotW ever being the true continuity.
    The thing is, We physically see what Ruto grows up to become. She clearly states her feelings have not changed and she has not forgotten Links promise to her 7 years prior. The only thing that prevents her from pursuing a relationship with Link is her decision to place her duty's as the water temple guardian and water sage above her own personal and romantic life.

    Ruto in the child timeline following the events of Majora's Mask likely held onto these feelings as well and essentially decided to "friendzone" herself for reasons that Link may have not reciprocated her feelings, or the whole "different species" thing.

    However the Ruto shipping is another debate all together and does not significantly impact your theory one way or the other.


    PJCLink wrote:

    Seeing as Link was the one who stopped Ganon in the future and is the only one who can truly stop him period, I find this hard to believe. Therefore, again, makes TP not the proper continuity as it contradicts the whole point why Hyrule even has a Hero in the first place. Same goes with the ALttP timeline as well for the same reasons.
    Link's destiny to become the Hero of Time was fulfilled when he defeated Ganondorf in the Adult timeline. When he was returned to his child time he became a messenger. His message from the future that prevented Ganondorfs assault on the castle made him a hero in the child timeline as well. (At least to the royal family who heeded his warning.) Link was instrumental in stopping Ganondorf after he had obtained the Triforce of power but was not strong enough in his youth which is why he was put to sleep for 7 years. Further more Link leaving the Sword in the pedestal of time to prevent Ganondorf from entering the sacred realm meant Link did not have the Master sword necessary to defeat Ganondorf. Use of the biggoron sword is not considered the canon method.

    It's more likely that the King or Zelda elected that Link skip town and take the Ocarina with him in case things went south at Ganondorfs execution as Ganondorf would most likely gun for him once he escaped. The same reasoning is why the witness protection program was created.

    Hyrule having a chosen hero is not a guaranteed win for Hyrule. It's just another defense mechanism like Zelda's sealing power.


    PJCLink wrote:

    Zelda wouldn't just drop Link's destiny altogether, especially not after Link confirmed Zelda's dreams of the future, that what she foresaw of Ganondorf's intentions were true. In real life, if Link's destiny was suddenly denied, especially after confirming to Zelda that she was right all along, that would only make Link hate Hyrule and join forces with Ganondorf. Which still would make TP not the proper continuity of that timeline. Denying Link's destiny would only make Hyrule look like a bunch of a**holes to Link and give him reason to betray them in favor of joining Ganondorf, who he would then betray later on, when he's older, since he knows he can best Ganondorf, with even the Biggoron Sword.

    And with Link as an unstoppable force, Hyrule would instantly realize their mistake in messing with the Hero of Time, which at point they would have made into a Villain of Time.
    This entire scenario is solely based on how you think Link would react in a hypothetical situation.
    Essentially fan fic.

    Neat.

    Again, I'm not trying to dissuade you from your theory. I'm just pointing out the leaps in logic you're taking with the source material. These claims all have reasonable answers to argue against it.
    Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the ability to overcome it.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by MORPHRELINK ().

  • MORPHRELINK wrote:

    It's clear your information is coming from other peoples fan theories and being treated as personal head cannon. (You've said as much yourself.) And that's fine. You're welcome to believe that within your head cannon the timelines don't make sense. But there are a lot of conclusions that you jump to and I would caution making assumptions without hardened evidence backing them up. The information you've provided is ambiguous, open for interpretation, and inconclusive at best. (As are most theories).
    I included a lot of other people theories because they're so obviously plausible it might as well be true. The only thing I strongly see as wrong is the whole Termina thing, as Aonuma officially stated it's supposed to be a nearby country, even though that statement was ignored with the release of Hyrule/Zelda Encyclopedia. But everything else has too much solid evidence to back them to be false. That's why I included them. And even the Termina thing to because despite Aonuma's word, it's still set in stone, against Aonuma's word, that Termina is still officially either a parallel world or a dream.

    MORPHRELINK wrote:

    Again going off what other people theorize to be possible as the idea of what kind of land Termina was is hotly up for debate. The only real evidence we have to go on is Aounuma telling us that it is a nearby country and that it "Feels like a parallel world."
    Like I said above, most of theories I included here are practically nearly proven fact due to such strong powerful evidence to back them. Which is why a lot of people believe those theories like they're fact, when officially, they aren't. But yet, people treat them as fact anyways because they make so much sense to them that it's just obvious to the point it's become common sense and typical Zelda fan nature to see them as practically fact. Because a lot of these ones I included in here are so obvious to the majority.

    And again, Like I said, I believe Aonuma's word on Termina. But the officially set in stone canon still says otherwise, unfortunately. Yes, I know it sucks, but that's actually one of the reasons why I actually follow by my own fan headcanon fanon anyways. I've practically pretty much gave up on official canon timeline stuff a long time ago. But I wanted to discuss this idea, with possibility that might happen as a means to spark some sense of hope amongst my fellow fans that maybe Nintendo might actually truly fix the problem with the timeline. And at this point, I personally feel like that by Nintendo creating a true continuity after OoT would the best way to go here, since all the other branches, as I explained, are all flawed and don't quite add up.

    MORPHRELINK wrote:

    But if all the HoT had to do was marry a Ranch girl then Anju would be a likely candidate as well, Seeing as how she was raising Cucoo's in Kakariko Village. Obviously there is a gap in age but if Kefei can marry Anju's Counter part in MM's it's not a far fetch to say a young Link and adult Anju couldn't do the same. Either one would result in the desired theory that Link being a ranch hand in TP is a result of him being born into a ranchers family.
    You do know that Kafei was only in form of a child because of a curse right? I mean, the dude himself literally straight up tells you that he was turned into a kid, that what you see isn't his true aged form. It literally straight up confirmed by the game itself that he's actually an adult in a kid's body. Also, as I've said, multiple times already, Nintendo has been pushing forward with the Zelink idea since the first three games. Link is bound to Zelda. Zelda is the only one of the options who actually feels anything for Link as more than just a handsome hero. She was the one who chose him specifically after all. You know when she was Hylia?

    That said, I still don't see Link's relationship with anyone other Zelda ever kicking off. So unless TP Link is actually the descendant of one of Link's siblings, cousins, or friends, which is confirmed not the case anyways, TP can't be the true continuity. Especially since it's geography contradicts with OoT's. While OoT is actually consistent to SS. Where all other games featuring Hyrule, other than MC, don't.

    MORPHRELINK wrote:

    Most heroes never actually interact with their fans. This is usually why the fandom dies over time. Link on the other hand spent a reasonable amount of time with Malon making him a friend rather than some illusive hero.
    Still that doesn't mean Malink will ever be a thing.

    MORPHRELINK wrote:

    While it's certainly possible that Link and Zelda became a couple I wouldn't say that this is always the case when it comes to these games. You're welcome to ship them together if you like but their relationship has little impact on their successors incarnations as shown in WW.
    Nintendo stress otherwise here. Also, WW is one of the games that I implied here didn't really happen.

    MORPHRELINK wrote:

    Try to remember Saria cared for Link far more than Zelda did in OOT and Navi was bound to him as well. Saria actually worried about Link's safety and didn't want him to leave the forest for fear of never seeing him again and although Zelda acknowledges a familiar feeling of having met him before she does not express similar compassion or concern for his safety in this regard.
    Zelda learning to become the Sheik has nothing to do with her personality as a child. She was taught by Impa as a means of self defense against Ganondorf.
    First, Saria is in the form of a child, so she can never be romantic with Link. Especially since she has been practically like a mother to him when he was too young to take care of himself. So that would only make any romance between them even more weird and just disturbing.

    Second, even though Zelda doesn't remember Link from a past life or seemingly lacks the expression of such compassion, the same feelings of love between her and her hero are still in there in spirit because they're bound to each other by destiny. Again, Nintendo has already pretty made this clear back during the time of the first three games. Not to mention that even in ALttP, it's implied and indicated by dialogue that Zelda is Link's destiny. And OoT further proves this when one of the composer bros in the graveyard tells Link that he reminds him of Zelda. This is supposed to imply that Link, the hero, and Zelda the princess for generations have always been together, eternally bound in spirit, that they are simply meant for each other.

    This means, that without one of them, the other is forever miserable, until she/he can find a way to reunite with the missing member/partner of that relationship. Almost as if that happiness can never be found elsewhere. Not long lasting eternal happiness anyways. Heck even in SS, before Zelda remember being Hylia, she felt so much concern for Link and only wanted him to be his best self. And lastly, Groose even further strengthens this point that Link and Zelda can't live eternally happy without each other by saying that Link can't go anywhere without Zelda. Yes, he said that as being mean to Link, because of his jealously and how he can't stand Link at that point. But the sad truth is, he's right. Link can't be the hero without Zelda. He can't be his best self.

    MORPHRELINK wrote:

    So whether or not the HoT married or never had children is irrelevant to TP Link's existence and job title.
    Um, it's confirmed that TP Link is the direct blood descendant of OoT Link. So, if OoT Link doesn't have kids, that means, no TP Link!

    MORPHRELINK wrote:

    Link's destiny to become the Hero of Time was fulfilled when he defeated Ganondorf in the Adult timeline. When he was returned to his child time he became a messenger. His message from the future that prevented Ganondorfs assault on the castle made him a hero in the child timeline as well. (At least to the royal family who heeded his warning.) Link was instrumental in stopping Ganondorf after he had obtained the Triforce of power but was not strong enough in his youth which is why he was put to sleep for 7 years. Further more Link leaving the Sword in the pedestal of time to prevent Ganondorf from entering the sacred realm meant Link did not have the Master sword necessary to defeat Ganondorf. Use of the biggoron sword is not considered the canon method.

    It's more likely that the King or Zelda elected that Link skip town and take the Ocarina with him in case things went south at Ganondorfs execution as Ganondorf would most likely gun for him once he escaped. The same reasoning is why the witness protection program was created.

    Hyrule having a chosen hero is not a guaranteed win for Hyrule. It's just another defense mechanism like Zelda's sealing power.
    So basically, let's just ignore what SS's backstory and story established, which was already heavily implied by all other games anyways. Okay.

    Link's destiny as the hero will always remain intact no matter what time he is, what life, or whatever. It doesn't matter, once he accepts his life as the Hero of Time, he's the Hero forever. After all, that's Link's title as the hero is called the Hero of Time. Seriously, he's called the Hero of Time for a reason! Yes, he's also the Hero of Legend, the Hero of Hyrule, etc. But the Hero of Time is just a much of an important title as the others. Especially since this is from the point in time when the games were still pretty consistent. Basically the reality part of the timeline before the Hyrule fantasies. At least as implied by this idea.

    Also, one thing agree from games like OoX and Zelda I is that Link doesn't actually need the Master Sword to defeat Ganon. Just the courage and strength. This also actually proven in OoT, as a non-Master Sword weapon like the Biggoron Sword is just as effective against Ganondorf and Ganon, if not more than the Master Sword. So, sorry, you're totally wrong here.

    And, you know, the reason why I set this thread to fun was because this theory was just a fun idea that I found interesting and wanted to explain further. But to avoid serious heated arguments, I intention set the thread to fun. And low and behold, I still get a heated argument anyways. This is exactly why I hate theorizing. No matter what, even if it's supposed to be a fun discussion, it still somehow always manages to create serious problems people just can't accept that it's just an idea that they insist it's false like they think I'm treating such as fact or something when I'm not. And even if seems like it, I'm only just trying to back my idea with factual or plausible information.

    MORPHRELINK wrote:

    This entire scenario is solely based on how you think Link would react in a hypothetical situation.
    Essentially fan fic.
    Nope. Any sane person with a heart, soul, mind, feelings, and emotions who were to go through all that hell, came to back to present to warn everybody, including the one person who already knew of what would happen if Ganondorf has his way, only to be brushed aside as nothing more just the messenger, especially since after being a hero in the future, would not stand for such degradation and disrespect for all her/his efforts. Link is not a sheep!

    So, no this is not a fan-fic. This is actually how it would happen if it really happened. You may see things differently. But keep in mind, you are not Link. And based on Link's characters in some games, while Link may seem like the follower type, he's actually the quite opposite. He's someone who is actually capable of being a leader. He only does was is right. Everything he does, he did because it was right. Ever order, command, task, or objective he followed was only because it was right. Heck in TP, when Midna tried to force to do a she says, Link didn't like it at first, even though TP by my idea didn't happen, his characteristics are still true. Even in HW, though not canon, he took a sword and shield and went out to war without order or command. This characteristic was actually confirmed true by Gaepora's words in SS. He's not a sheep! That's why Hylia chose him. She wanted someone who would follow only his heart of what he felt was right and he would do it without having to be told. She wanted a hero, not just another soldier.

    And so with that said, if you tried to take that away from Link, his purpose, his destiny, and even after, all he's been through, and wanting to do more for Hyrule, understanding that he's the only one who can stop Ganon. You take that away from such a character, you're gonna a very bad day. Which is exactly what I feel would happen to Hyrule if they did that to Link. Link was told he's the only one who can stop Ganon, he then does that in the future. But then uh oh. What about the present? Ganon still hasn't been stopped in the present. So what ever will we do? Oh yeah, Link, you know you were told that only you can defeat Ganon? Yeah, we only told you that so that you'd do our job for us in the future, so now we don't have need of you anymore. Goodbye! Go play around in Termina or something. You were never our hero Link, just another solider.

    Yeah, I fail to see how that wouldn't make ever Link cringe at all. Or anyone in his position for that matter. And with Link's sense of righteousness, which is now corrupted by confusion and failure to understand the logic of why he should ever continue to follow such an heartless kingdom, Link would most definitely feel the need to exact his revenge. And that would of course lead to him using Ganondorf, until he doesn't need him anymore. Perhaps maybe, the real reason by this scenario's logic why Link left Hyrule in the first place wasn't actually to find Navi but find a new purpose, but instead, he found the power he needed to conquer Hyrule, the Fierce Deity's Mask. Thus leading him into becoming the Hero Shade, which thus explains why Hero's Shade is literally the same height as the Fierce Deity.

    The Hero's Shade is the result of the Hero of Time going dark, so in TP, he seduces his own descendant to join his side by earning his trust first by helping save Hyrule, then proceeding to convince him that Hyrule is evil so that he can pass down the torch, and TP Link can finish what he started.

    Anyways, that's enough that. The point is, It'd be stupid if Hyrule pulled such a corrupt move, and it would kill an important conventional part of the history and lore and really what The Legend of Zelda is supposed be about that was the scenario that actually happened in Hyrule's history. Link is supposed the hero no matter what, and Link and Zelda are supposed to be together no matter what. If you take that away, then the franchise won't be The Legend of Zelda anymore.

    Believe what you want but while I do believe that Hyrule has been corrupt in it's history before, especially before OoT, Hyrule or more specifically especially Zelda have ever been evil. Especially not Zelda, as she would never drop a destiny that she made in a past life. Especially as long as she's bound to Link and has feelings for Link. And most especially as long Zelda clings to believe in her dreams of the future and prophecy that Link is supposed to be the hero to stop Ganon, not a bunch spirit monk dudes, who aren't even supposed to be the sages of that time.

    My idea is based on how neither of the post OoT timelines are consistent with OoT, as they are so contradicting, it's ridiculous.

    Anyways, that's all I have left to say here. This discussion is over. I hoped that I might actually get a fun discussion here, but I was wrong. Anyways, either way, I'm still going to keep this idea as part of my headcanon and fanon. If it can't be discussed as a theory with potential of being a real thing, without things getting heated, then what's the point. I tried to open up again, but it just blew up in my face again. People just don't ever want to have a fun discussion when it comes to theories anymore.
    The True Zelda Timeline:
    ----------------/>WW|PH>ST
    SS>MC>FS>OoT|MM>TP>FSA>HW(original)>BotW(2014 version)
    ----------------\>ALttP|OoX|LA(original)>ALBW>TFH>TLoZ|TAoL
  • Well, My apologies if you feel this is a heated argument. I only meant for constructive criticism and personally I was enjoying the discussion.
    The purpose of presenting a theory to your peers of any subject is, in part, to be accepted (if it's good enough), but more importantly to be scrutinized by said peers. To have someone with a fresh pair of eyes review your claims. Whether to confirm or debunk your information. The hope is to come together to reveal the most logical truth.
    There will be opposing views, always. But if one can't consider any other possibility but their own then the topic should never have been brought for discussion in the first place.

    But, This is your thread so handle it however you like.
    Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the ability to overcome it.
  • This discussion seemed pretty civil and fun to me, actually, and I saw a total lack of "heat" in the responses; but if by "fun" you mean a discussion where everyone agrees with everything you're proposing, then that's not a discussion. Were you just... expecting people to bounce around additional story bits to what you'd provided?

    @MORPHRELINK Hyrule Historia doesn't just refer to the Hero's Shade as potentially, according to popular theory the Hero of Time -- it directly announces the fact on page 118.
  • ^ I'm refferring to the info on page 179. The book was written by Dark Horse comics. Of which have been known to take liberties with the stories and lore. The HS never lamented that he wasn't remembered. Only that he regretted not being able to pass on the lessons he learned from the life of the hero, primarily his sword techniques. I've refuted this in another thread.(admittedly not as well as I could have.) But I understand if people would rather accept the preferred story. It's just not something I personally agree with.
    Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the ability to overcome it.
  • logicalpencils wrote:

    This discussion seemed pretty civil and fun to me, actually, and I saw a total lack of "heat" in the responses
    Not to me. I only just saw the usual stuff I always see.

    logicalpencils wrote:

    but if by "fun" you mean a discussion where everyone agrees with everything you're proposing, then that's not a discussion.
    I never expect people to straight agree with me. You all have a right to disagree with me if you want. Just as long as do so in a reasonable respectful constructive manner. If you like my theory, then I'd hear it and why. Don't just come in what's supposed to be fun discussion and say nothing destructive disagreeing comments.

    That's basically a common problem with a lot of the people that I discuss theories with on net. They never say "I like your theory, but I disagree with you" or "here's why you're wrong", show solid undeniable proof of why I'm wrong, in a polite constructive manner. No, instead they just say rude things like "you're just making stuff up", "you're basing things on your own assumptions", "everything you said essentially just a fan-fic", "where's the evidence", "proof or didn't happen", or etc. The last two are only considered rude if I actually did present some sort of proof but it was ignored.

    The problem isn't the disagreements themselves, it's nature of them. That's why I get so turned off by them so easily and why it's seem to you like as I only want people to agree, when I don't. I just want to people to civilly constructive with me and actually bring up hard facts that are undeniable to prove me, only if I'm wrong. And I also just want people to at least enjoy and like my theories when I present them into discussion. Like isn't the same as agree. You don't have to agree with my theory to like it. If you see that it was at least well thought, don't be shy to say so or at least give it a like.

    I've liked other people's theories before, even if I didn't agree with them 100%. If I see it was at least well thought, that's all that matters.

    Anyways, this discussion is going nowhere. I'm afraid this thread is gonna have to be locked by mod. Because I don't want to cause anymore tension to brought here.

    logicalpencils wrote:

    Were you just... expecting people to bounce around additional story bits to what you'd provided?
    If you're about what I said about Link's destiny as the hero, then all I can say is that I was simply just trying to stress a point as to why the continuity that leads to TP is stupid and wrong. So, no.

    My whole idea here is that because there's so much contradiction with the current post OoT timelines, neither of them should be considered the true proper continuity.

    But alas it seems that middle space with the timeline breaking off from there multiple times is simply just meaningless. So let's say that Hyrule fell after OoT, and everything after it are all just tall tales told by people in future time period where Hyrule doesn't exist anymore. Basically a world like ours.

    Anyways, I already said this discussion is over. I'm truly officially done with theories this time. And for this theory/idea, I'm just gonna keep it as a part of my fanon, since it's never going to be true, and there will never be an option in the timeline where the line actually goes on after OoT, without breaking. Nope, only in my fanon will that happen.

    Well anyways, since this discussion is over, this thread really needs to be locked since this discussion is going nowhere. There's just no point to it. I'm done with this as a theory. I'm gonna have it as part of my fanon since it works better that way. I should've never posted this thread in the first place. The longer I have this idea presented as a theory, the more people will to hate it. And I don't want. This was a good idea I thought of well and hard. It took a lot of thought to really think of this idea and how it works. So I don't want to have to throw it away. That said, I'm keeping it in my fanon. And again, like I said, you don't have to agree with it to like it.

    The whole reason I decided to just focus more and more on just my fanon for these kind of ideas, is because I've noticed how people like them more that way. They don't have to feel forced to agree with it, but they still like it, even if they don't agree. That's what makes fanon more fun than theories in my opinion. Theories just creates conflict, which I don't find fun at all.

    Again, anyways, I've blabbered long enough here. This discussion is over.
    The True Zelda Timeline:
    ----------------/>WW|PH>ST
    SS>MC>FS>OoT|MM>TP>FSA>HW(original)>BotW(2014 version)
    ----------------\>ALttP|OoX|LA(original)>ALBW>TFH>TLoZ|TAoL
  • Logicalpencils wrote:

    There's a certain Downfall Timeline I don't particularly enjoy that HH introduced, but it's still canon. I also agree that the description of the Hero's Shade seems a bit beyond what TP suggests, but it's still fact.
    I can accept this sentiment and wouldn't mind discussing it. But I guess we shouldn't here as its considered off topic.
    Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the ability to overcome it.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by MORPHRELINK ().