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    Master Ideas! Wishes/Wants/Ideas for Future Zelda titles
    • gamtos wrote:

      or it's a holdover from when they were still modeling the thing, considering the eighth one just has it in reverse. Regardless, if they ARE referring to the legend of the Seven Sages, then the Gerudo seem to have jumbled it already, making the cultures still distinct.

      It's like the Americans getting culture shock from Sinterklaas without knowing that's what Santa was based on.

      The fact that it is reversed could be a sign of Eight's isolated status from the others like many christian symbols are bastardised to represent the opposite of them. A cross represents god, a reverse cross represents Satan. This passage translates to sages, this passage written in reverse indicates an ex sage.

      Distinct but not unique. Roman mythology is distinct from Greek but it is still obvious derived directly from Greek gods. 90% of Roman material has a 01:01 correlation to Greek. Have you noticed that no one ever remembers the Roman version of a god over the greek. Whose the sky god? Zeus, no one ever says Jupiter first.

      That is the entire problem. The Gerudo are turning into "wacky desert Hylians". Giving them a 01:01 correlative legend to a legend that was Hylian first doesn't help that. And the fact that there is an Eighth doesn't set it apart either as if it has a 01:01 with the Hylian Sages there probably also a 01:01 Hylian story that talks of a sage that got kicked out of the group. Giving them a unique set of cultural figures would have been great but the moment you pull something from the neighbouring kingdom the Gerudo look like cheesy hacks not a more fully developed civilisation.

      gamtos wrote:

      I don't feel enough importance was placed on the Goddess of the Sand in OoT to see it as a major loss of culture. Especially because extremely similar statues exist in the Arbiter's Grounds and that seems to be mostly Hylian run based on it being used by the Hylians as an execution ground.

      Well OoT as a whole didn't place a whole lot of emphasis on a great deal of things. If you want to go by that metric for what is relevant the Gerudo people as a whole would be written out of the wider narrative as we are given very sparse details regarding anything about them. We were left with little about their culture, having to infer a great deal and have only four different NPCs that are examples of standard Gerudo which were then copy pasted ad nauseam. Not to mention that given the distinctly non Hylian architecture of Arbiter's grounds and what was contained within it, it pretty clearly wasn't something the Hylians constructed but something they co opted. Whether it actually is the Desert Colossus is another matter but it was at one point a Gerudo structure so the presence of the Goddess of the Sand in it is evidence of cultural appropriation, which is narratively interesting not a lack of cultural distinction.

      Not to mention there is a big difference between just not showing the Goddess of the Sands and coming out and saying "Yes the Gerudo worship Hylia. I mean not that much anymore but it was a thing." Especially considering the world of BotW could easily be why the statue fell into disuse. They lost their faith in Hylia because of Calamity Ganon's victory making them so similar to the Hylians. Same god, same legends, as of BotW same values, same goals.

      There was not that much OoT gave us but what it did hinted at a much deeper well of an very interesting and unique society. BotW jettisoned almost all of it beyond "desert warrior women". They don't even say anything about the fact that Gerudo are only born female which is there most significant cultural identifier. They are all female but they don't mention why. For all we know if we'd only played BotW maybe they killed all Gerudo males at birth.

      To get back to the point of what I was saying before you started targeting specific sentences instead of the actual through line. Miles, if they get rid of the most distinct identifier that separates the Gerudo from the Hylians a few physical differences and a location will be all that sets the two apart given the direction they've been headed. Even with the a good story justification, though that story has problems of its own that I've already covered.

      Zugioh, if you're going to post videos to further the general argument would you mind putting in a few sentences that get straight to the heart of the issue discussed in the video under it? I don't mean this as anything more that what it says but I don't know you. From my perspective you might be the kind of person that posts insane fan theory videos (of which there are a lot) that I don't really want to watch. With a quick summary I could make a judgement on whether that is a topic I really want to see explored or if it just looks ludicrous. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to offend you because you seem like a nice person and those videos are probably very fine but they're long enough that I don't want to touch them if they are too far out there.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • ZomBrad412 wrote:

      Probably been said a million times before, but since BOTW is the new OOT-standard, definitely a return to Termina...but scarier and more disturbing...sadder too, but with the odd quirks...

      Maybe instead of shrines, something like Deku crypts?
      Would much more prefer an entire new land/world. Termina is great sure, but why return there? Why not something completely different that can be anything, with much more possibilities. New landmarks, new story, etc.

      I think they should just replace shrines with anything that is somewhat small and feel a bit more natural. Like caves, ruins, holes, etc... and sometimes maybe the overworld gradually transforms into a dungeon. Also would like if the size would vary greatly. Sometimes Link stumble upon a little cave that takes like 5 minutes to solve, and sometimes a big castle that requires at least an hour. I don't like the notion that it should be a standard for these things... it makes it feel too predictable and gamey.
    • MVS wrote:

      ZomBrad412 wrote:

      Probably been said a million times before, but since BOTW is the new OOT-standard, definitely a return to Termina...but scarier and more disturbing...sadder too, but with the odd quirks...

      Maybe instead of shrines, something like Deku crypts?
      Would much more prefer an entire new land/world. Termina is great sure, but why return there? Why not something completely different that can be anything, with much more possibilities. New landmarks, new story, etc.
      I think they should just replace shrines with anything that is somewhat small and feel a bit more natural. Like caves, ruins, holes, etc... and sometimes maybe the overworld gradually transforms into a dungeon. Also would like if the size would vary greatly. Sometimes Link stumble upon a little cave that takes like 5 minutes to solve, and sometimes a big castle that requires at least an hour. I don't like the notion that it should be a standard for these things... it makes it feel too predictable and gamey.
      I definitely want more NPCs that have more meaningful relationships with their family and neighbors, doing their daily business like in Skyrim, even after completing their quests.

      Also if there were to be shrines again, about half, and the ruins and temples would be optional full blown dungeons...

      There should be a better way to get the traditional hero tunic too...

      Maybe I want to look like Link without completing billions of things... maybe I don't and can skip that optional dungeon...or not meet that sage...etc..

      I just assume they'll re-do the shrines because of a fair number of post-alttp games making you collect three objects before the game opens up lol
    • TriforceHolder wrote:

      That sort of goes somewhat into the mystery of the Sky Goddess. Essentially in this universe Zelda was the chosen hero and Link the god. Instead of reincarnation Zelda was made immortal and has been manipulating the goings on in Termina since Link's departure. In this version without a hero setting right the wrongs that Skull Kid perpetrated Zelda used the magicks she'd been left with to revive Darmani and the Deku Bulter's Son, heal Mikau's wounds and gave the Great Fairy's Sword to Kafei and let him into the Stone Tower.
      Wait, what? I thought you said this was just the DT? When did it become some twisted AU?

      PJCLink wrote:

      Well, it is better than the whole thing just being left to our imagination based on an ending that never actually happened in-game.
      I'd rather imagine something good than play through something bad.

      PJCLink wrote:

      So because they didn't, their only option now is to make a sequel or sorts and retcon the timing of Ganon's victory while keeping everything else the same. I say this cause there's no they're going to make another full scale remake of OoT again anytime soon. We might get a port of the 3DS one but that's about it.
      WW HD and TP HD are both just remasters (i.e. ports), and they both add content. Neglibile, yes, but content nonetheless. Really, I think the main reason they won't do it is that OoT 3D released when Nintendo was finally committing to a timeline. If they didn't do it then, they won't do it now. I mean, just look at the state of BotW's timeline placement. Someone on r/truezelda once said the timeline was nothing more than an ad for SS, and that's starting to look rather accurate, unfortunately.

      As for another remake of OoT being extremely unlikely, I wish the fanboys begging Nintendo for a remake on the graphical level of CryZenX's Unreal remake knew that.

      PJCLink wrote:

      Nintendo really needs to take notes from Square-Enix, the masters of handling remakes.
      Game Freak does an excellent job as well.

      TriforceHolder wrote:

      Those two curses don’t counter each other though, they combine with complimentary effects into an even greater negative consequence.
      I thought it was pretty obviously implied there was a clause that would lift the curse if the two tribes united.
      The Twilight Realm was basically wizard Australia where every naughty banished person was transformed into some sort of harmless albino penguins.
      ~ Gamtos

      WW is Nintendo's Up, basically. Link is Russell, Tetra is Doug, and uh, I guess maybe Tingle is Kevin?

      ~ Gregarious Tree
    • Kokiri Kid wrote:

      Wait, what? I thought you said this was just the DT? When did it become some twisted AU?

      It's not an AU. Or at least it is only so much as Termina is an alternate universe. AU requires rewriting of the source material. What I'm doing is filling in the source material.

      The standard multiverse theory that most fiction uses which I'd assume applies to both Termina and Lorule is each universe begins with the same resources and starting conditions. From there minor discrepancies between them over time compound into radically different universes. For instance Lorule continued identically to Hyrule until the Imprisoning War. At this point they chose to destroy their Triforce instead of sealing it away resulting in the tragic demise of their land which is a far sight from what happened to Hyrule. The same should be true for Termina. Since we lack a definitive history I wrote one. At the beginning instead of Hylia the GGes left behind a male god who chose a female champion. With different people in the key roles of power during the inciting events of Skyward Sword the conflict went dramatically differently and compound those results with a thousand changes that they fostered and a couple thousand years down the road we have Termina instead of Hyrule. If you're really interested the full version is on the thread linked in my signature as well as a much more detailed version of the MM DT sequel.

      Kokiri Kid wrote:

      I thought it was pretty obviously implied there was a clause that would lift the curse if the two tribes united.

      That creates the slight problem of an intention for the curse to be lifted. If you set parameters for a curse to lift it means that you want the curse to lift eventually. Whoever cursed the Gerudo in the game it probably be assumed it was a magical form of bio warfare. Realistically it was probably the Hylians that did it. In that context it was meant to kill them off as it created very rigid circumstances for them to reproduce. The fact that they found a way around that is a testament to their ingenuity.

      But if the curse was designed to lift it means whoever enacted it foresaw a situation in which it would so the clearly didn't intend to kill the Gerudo. What then was the point of the curse?

      Also logistically did they also systematically separate the male and female Gerudo, curse them all then release them in separate places? If they cursed them all at once with that provision the next Gerudo couple that banged would break the curse rendering it kind of pointless. For the idea to work the breaking of the breaking of the curse by the two tribes getting together has to be an accidental side effect of the magic otherwise you enter strange logistical avenues of who cursed them, how and why. However it being a quirk of the magic only works if the two versions of the curse are diametrically opposite, combining the two cancels each one individually.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • TriforceHolder wrote:

      Those two curses don’t counter each other though, they combine with complimentary effects into an even greater negative consequence.

      There is a major problem. With a tribe that can only produce females the implication of Ocarina of Time is that the Gerudo women go Castle Town for anonymous sex with Hylian men so they can get pregnant. They then return to their own tribe to raise the child. Now that is a little skeezy but is essentially a functioning bargain. The men get a night of what can be assumed to be fantastic sex given the physical prowess of the Gerudo free from any consequences of the night. The Gerudo gets a child and the chance to continue their race.

      The problem is that when you reverse the genders there becomes a very serious problem of time. Hylians are this world’s equivalent to human so we can assume a similar incubation period of nine months give or take two either way for racial creativity. Assuming the male Gerudo aren’t rapists and have full consent: the Gerudo/Hylian understanding above functions pretty much solely on the Hylian having to make no further effort in the matter following the initial hook up. The number of Hylian women likely to commit to spending several month pregnant with a child they will never see again for the benefit of a people that (if they’re anything like OoT Gerudo) aren’t considered nicely by the general populous is so few that the male Gerudo tribe would likely die out from lack of children unless they turned to kidnaping and forcing themselves on prisoners in order to reproduce which unfortunately leads us back to “Why would Link consider helping these people over killing them?” There’s a fat gap between “this tribe steals the supplies they need from others to keep themselves alive” and “this tribe commits crimes that will leave the victims with lasting psychological damage till the day they die to reproduce”.

      And yes I would imagine there would be some successful Hylian/MGerudo romances or surrogates but it wouldn’t be enough to sustain the birthdate of an entire tribe for multiple generations.
      No-one said the Gerudo men don't visit their mamas. Heck, I imagine in a neighboring land where the male Gerudo live, they'd mingle quite frequently with their wives and mothers.


      Display Spoiler
      Here's a thought: What if the male Gerudo are basically the rulers of their land, the dominant tribe of "Gerudoland" in the same way the Hylians are of Hyrule? (Also raises the notion of a land dominated by Sheikah. Maybe the Sheikah of Hyrule are immigrants from a distant land who brought some of their native flora and fauna with them?) And though I know I'm suggesting a dangerous idea here, what if the male Gerudo claim the first daughter of every family in their land as a preservation tactic? Basically, living in "Gerudoland" means pledging your firstborn daughter as a wife-to-be when she comes of age. However, before the :mob: burns me at the stake, perhaps many of the Gerudo men allow their wives an open relationship or even divorce after reproduction out of sympathy for their situation? Sort of a "bear me a child and you are free to live with another man if you please" deal.

      Heck, considering their race needs women to procreate, they might even encourage women in their land to seek two husbands, one Gerudo and one of another tribe, to keep the female population up. And if we want to be really daring, Gerudo men might encourage the males of other tribes in their land to keep harems, again out of a desire to maintain the female population (Gerudo men would be discouraged from keeping harems for fear of oversaturating the populace with males). The second husband could help the wife raise the children and care for the home while the Gerudo husband works as a soldier or tradesman. In that regard, the other husband becomes part of his family too, sort of a weird brother-in-law effect, and the Gerudo takes it upon himself to protect both of them. Of course if a non-Gerudo male takes more than one wife, he's expected to help support the family of each wife and each Gerudo with whom he shares a wife. Thus a single non-Gerudo male could end up the second husband of multiple Gerudo families, but in practice would only have one or two.

      I should hope that in most cases the Gerudo men treat their wives with care and respect. Heck, the law could outright forbid mistreatment of women in their society, under penalty of exile, and grant those women the right to report any mistreatment. Gerudo men might even worship women for their beauty and role as lifegivers, the catch to that of course being that they consider women too precious to risk in dangerous occupations like soldier or carpenter. It's not that they view women as weak, incapable, or lower status, they just want to minimize the risk of losing precious, beloved childbearers. But women in their society could still play a role in protecting their families and homes, akin to samurai wives of historic Japan, they could still own and run less dangerous businesses like fashion, cuisine, and entertainment, and they could even hold political offices in the hierarchy (after all, their ruler would presumably be a queen). They just have to leave the construction, medicine, policing, and warfare to the men, the Gerudo men in particular.

      So, in exchange for being pledged, women in "Gerudoland" get to enjoy a lot of privileges and agency, limited only by what their society deems necessary.

      Once our heroes reunite the Gerudo men with the women, they're all too happy to abandon the old system as it's no longer necessary for their survival, and it sowed discontent among their constituents. They still allow mixing with other tribes, but no longer depend on other tribes for survival. And since the Gerudo women are accustomed to filling all the same roles in their society as the men, their reunited society from then on drops gendered roles altogether.

      One explanation for how male and female Gerudo couples result in genetic heteronormality could be that each possess a gene that needs the other to reliably produce children of both genders, otherwise the overwhelming majority are of the same gender. It's kinda like how male lions possess a growth-promoting gene and female lions possess a growth-inhibiting gene; because a liger is born of a male lion and a female tiger, the promoting gene is present, but not the inhibiting gene, usually resulting in a cat that's bigger than either of its parents. Female Gerudo possess a gene that encourages the development of female children while male Gerudo possess the equivalent gene for male children. Take one of those away and you're left with a racial subgroup that almost always produces children of one gender.



      This is of course all probably beyond the scope of what Nintendo would ever do, at least in a game released stateside.
    • If the male Gerudo are the rulers with access and dominance over a non Gerudo population that they can use for lack of a better term as breeding stock the nessecity in breaking the curse becomes all but naught. The curse is debilitating for the female Gerudo because they are so astracized that population growth is a serious problem. Hence the “searching for boyfriends in castle town”. If that’s not a problem for the male Gerudo but merely a vague quirk of their society there is no overwhelming need to break the curse. In fact breaking the curse would be a major upsetting factor to an otherwise working society.

      It also brings up thr question of how they got separated. The Gerudo birth problem has to be a curse, something done to the people deliberately. If it was just a quirk of their genetics that they produce almost entirely only one gender of off spring then the one male Gerudo every hundred years could not be predicted with such accuracy. It would be “Gerudo male are rare. You’d be luck to see one in your lifetime.” That they come about every hundred years indicates intentional design. The problem is if the Gerudo were a full two gendered people both cursed like this then the curse wouldnt actually do anything when it was initially cast cause when they mate in their own tribe everything is just as it was. You could say it was a eugenics thing to keep the population only within their own people but that doesn’t exactly hold water when they still can have kids with other races albeit ever so slightly more limitedly.

      Also there is a very slippery slope in displaying a 100% completely patriarchal society that is viewed as a totally good thing. Considering the times we live in it doesn’t exactly promote the best message.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by TriforceHolder ().

    • Who's to say it's literally every 100 years? Maybe that was just an approximation of "very rarely".
      The Twilight Realm was basically wizard Australia where every naughty banished person was transformed into some sort of harmless albino penguins.
      ~ Gamtos

      WW is Nintendo's Up, basically. Link is Russell, Tetra is Doug, and uh, I guess maybe Tingle is Kevin?

      ~ Gregarious Tree
    • That’s a very specific approximation. If it was more random than that they’d use more generalized terms “once a generation” “once in a century”. (Or maybe “once in two or three generations” depending on how long a normal Gerudo/Hylian lifespan is). The way they say it is too specific for it to be a synonym of a broad generalization.

      Even if it was a quirk of genetics (which logic dictates it can’t be but moving on). How did the two tribes separate? What possible reason could there be for separating from the opposite sex of the only population that could sustain a normal birth rate?
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • Display Spoiler

      BackSet-Chan wrote:

      @Miles

      I'm seeing some double standards regarding Male Gerudo ruling their land while Female Gerudo are either persecuted for being known as thieves or ruled over by hylians

      TriforceHolder wrote:

      Also there is a very slippery slope in displaying a 100% completely patriarchal society that is viewed as a totally good thing. Considering the times we live in it doesn’t exactly promote the best message.
      Well, here's a few things to keep in mind:
      • The male Gerudo are ruled by the one woman to be born every 100 years, much as Hyrule's female Gerudo are ruled by the one man. So, a woman automatically assumes the highest position of power in their society. That right there already makes it a far cry from the historically patriarchical societies of our world.
      • As to why the male Gerudo are in charge in their land, it could simply be a matter of their tribe being the most adept at living in "Gerudoland's" climate. If the Gerudo out there were women, they might be the dominant tribe all the same. So, it isn't supposed to be a double standard, the land where Gerudo dominate simply happens to be home to the male half of the population. The Gerudo dominate because they provide more raw muscle for labor and protection. They provide the warriors, the carpenters, the blacksmiths, and other essential jobs, so other tribes submit to them. No doubt there would be some history of conquest as well; the Gerudo would have established their dominion through a mixture of war and diplomacy much as the Hylians presumably did.
      • Women in this proposed society are allowed a great deal more agency than historic societies, their only real obligations being the pledge system and staying away from jobs with higher risk of injury or death. As I said above, it's not out of misogynist sentiments, it's purely a matter of practicality for the male Gerudo (plus maybe a little bit of protective instinct; I could see Gerudo men being exceptionally sentimental and affectionate behind closed doors).
      • The Gerudo in BotW might actually be Hyrule's most powerful tribe following the Great Calamity. They're one of only two tribes left with formally trained soldiers (the Zora being the other; Gorons and Rito have warriors and many Hylians certainly know how to use weapons, but military discipline and organization is a higher level of martial prowess), and they're the most physically capable human tribe; all it would take is another Ganondorf leading them to drive them to conquer Hyrule, not to mention their dependency on men of other tribes would give them some incentive to establish a society similar to what I've described for male Gerudo. They're also the most influential thanks to their jewelry and relative wealth; only the Zora can match the grandeur of their structures, and the Zora have a debilitating need for water preventing them from having anywhere near the same distribution. The Gorons would be the only tribe that need not fear Gerudo conquest, as their volcanic home and technological weaponry would make an invasion difficult. If I were a Hylian alive in BotW's time, I would be a little scared of the Gerudo, and thankful that they're deciding to play nice despite the collapse of the Hylian government and military body.
      • I never said it was supposed to be viewed as ideal. I even mentioned that the pledge system creates discontent among their constituents, though that would be mitigated by the two-way harem system allowing both non-Gerudo men and women in their society to have multiple lovers and spouses. Note that the Gerudo men themselves are technically at a disadvantage due to their laws discouraging if not outright prohibiting them from having harems as it is seen as risking an overpopulation of men, so women and non-Gerudo men technically have more privileges in that society, if not necessarily more rights. Imagine being a Gerudo male who has to share his wife with another guy, and while they're both allowed more than one lover, you aren't. It definitely isn't an ideal society, for the Gerudo or their constituents, just the only one that they know how to sustain without knowledge of a solution.

      TriforceHolder wrote:

      If the male Gerudo are the rulers with access and dominance over a non Gerudo population that they can use for lack of a better term as breeding stock the nessecity in breaking the curse becomes all but naught. The curse is debilitating for the female Gerudo because they are so astracized that population growth is a serious problem. Hence the “searching for boyfriends in castle town”. If that’s not a problem for the male Gerudo but merely a vague quirk of their society there is no overwhelming need to break the curse. In fact breaking the curse would be a major upsetting factor to an otherwise working society.

      It also brings up thr question of how they got separated. The Gerudo birth problem has to be a curse, something done to the people deliberately. If it was just a quirk of their genetics that they produce almost entirely only one gender of off spring then the one male Gerudo every hundred years could not be predicted with such accuracy. It would be “Gerudo male are rare. You’d be luck to see one in your lifetime.” That they come about every hundred years indicates intentional design. The problem is if the Gerudo were a full two gendered people both cursed like this then the curse wouldnt actually do anything when it was initially cast cause when they mate in their own tribe everything is just as it was. You could say it was a eugenics thing to keep the population only within their own people but that doesn’t exactly hold water when they still can have kids with other races albeit ever so slightly more limitedly.
      This I concur with. If ever a society of male Gerudo are introduced, there needs to be a strong incentive for Link and Zelda to introduce them to Hyrule's female Gerudo. And yes, there needs to be a good explanation as to how the curse happened to begin with.

      One possibility is that the curse was actually started when an ancient king and queen of the Gerudo had a falling out and basically split their population in two; reuniting their people breaks the curse. But why, then, does the curse specifically provide for one exception every 100 years? It is something that needs to be figured out.

      Generally the idea is to introduce male Gerudo while dodging the uncomfortable subject of violating consent. Yeah, you could argue that the pledge system still violates consent insomuch that it forces each firstborn woman to choose a husband, but she at least gets to choose which Gerudo man she marries, provided he isn't already married, and she gets to remarry if she so chooses. It's not like the Gerudo men are all "I have more money, I call dibs LOL". And the Gerudo men are willing to make provisions to ease the difficulty of the pledge system; they kinda have to, since they need to ensure women continue producing daughters as well as sons, thus the harem system.

      Honestly, if the female Gerudo were Hyrule's dominant race, I imagine they might have created a similar society, only with the gender roles reversed. There's no evidence of multiple spouses or harems or such in their society, but the two groups don't have to be 100% parallel to each other. It's only natural that deviations between the two subcultures would develop, deviations born not of intrinsic gender differences but of circumstance.


      This does raise the question of what other human or humanoid tribes might be living in "Gerudoland". It would be neat to see tribes not found in Hyrule. Cat people? Snake people? Jackal people? Rito with more Egyptian influences? A genie-like race? There's lots of potential. I'm starting to imagine a range of "Indo-Middle Eastern" cultural influences, including Arabian, Egyptian, Turkish, Indian, and Tibetan. Presumably there is at least one other race of humans out there, the "Gerudoland" equivalent of Hylians, but maybe darker in complexion. Environment-wise there are probably jungles and icy mountains in addition to desert.

      Also, in case someone thinks to bring it up: no, I don't think this society would have drastic age gaps between its Gerudo men and their wives. You wouldn't see a 38-year old Gerudo male marry an 18-year old woman; legally it could happen, but a Gerudo man marrying a woman young enough to be his daughter would be seen as rather squicky. Assuming the story presents the age of marriage as 18, the Gerudo men available to a legal woman would probably range from 18 to late twenties. A gap of 5-6 years wouldn't be unheard of, but you wouldn't see a gap greater than 10.
    • Kokiri Kid wrote:

      I'd rather imagine something good than play through something bad.
      All the more reason why such an idea as an if Link failed timeline was a big mistake in the first place and never should've happened at all.

      But because it unfortunately did, we need something to at least make more sense of it than what we have now.

      Kokiri Kid wrote:

      Really, I think the main reason they won't do it is that OoT 3D released when Nintendo was finally committing to a timeline. If they didn't do it then, they won't do it now.
      The reason they didn't add a bad ending in was because the remake released before the timeline. That said, I really feel like the DT was really a last minute thing they started on after OoT 3D already released. Hence why it was so dumb. It was rushed cause they didn't really know where to put the more classic style games like ALttP and TLoZ. So the DT was born.

      And because they messed up big time, the only way they can clean up that mess now is with an OoT sequel with two different endings. One leading to TP and the other leading to ALttP. And the only way that'd ever happen with a 2D game since they will never return to the more traditional age of the lore for 3D games ever again as of since BotW, which takes place in a whole new age. Which is kind of upsetting as it feels like Nintendo wants us to forget the past and move forward. But I don't want to forget the past. And know Nintendo has to be aware of people like me.

      So that's why I feel like Nintendo is going to use the 2D games as their way of still continue the Age of the Gods (the Traditional Age) for those like me who still want to enjoy a more traditional style Zelda set in a more traditional Zelda time period. Yes, Aonuma has mentioned that he wants revolutionize 2D Zelda as well, like with 3D Zelda. But traditional style and traditional age setting are things that I can imagine are definitely staying within the 2D games.

      Think of it like how Young Link and Toon Link are being treated in the new Smash Ultimate as alternatives to Link (who has changed) for more traditional Link fans. So I can definitely see 2D Zelda games being treated in the same way. They'll still keep that more traditional style Zelda flair and charm of past games, but they will most certainly also still try new things like the 3D Zelda games. As we know, ALBW and TFH already did this with the rental system and being able to take on dungeons in any order in ALBW and the clothing system in TFH. But again, unlike BotW, they still clinged to that more traditional style.

      Kokiri Kid wrote:

      I mean, just look at the state of BotW's timeline placement.
      Yeah. All the more proof of why a split timeline was such a bad idea. Let alone an official public timeline that's not only handled/managed by people who clearly don't know what they're doing when it comes to public release timelines or how to manage such thing, but also kills the fun of fans following by their own creative take on the timeline and lore.

      Kokiri Kid wrote:

      Someone on r/truezelda once said the timeline was nothing more than an ad for SS, and that's starting to look rather accurate, unfortunately.
      Yeah, sad but so true. And it was also just a fun pitch/idea by Nintendo that they only released due to high demand for an official timeline of sorts. But then fans took such public released timeline seriously when Nintendo never intended for it to be something so serious and canonical. So then Nintendo felt inclined due to pressure from fans to treat said timeline as official.

      Kokiri Kid wrote:

      As for another remake of OoT being extremely unlikely, I wish the fanboys begging Nintendo for a remake on the graphical level of CryZenX's Unreal remake knew that.
      It's not that it's unlikely, it's just that there's no way that it's happening anytime soon. Like I said, maybe in far future we might get another remake, but in the meantime, the only possibilities I see is either an HD Switch port of the already existing remake (3DS) and/or a 2D sequel.

      Kokiri Kid wrote:

      Game Freak does an excellent job as well.
      True. Yes, they do. I loved Pokemon Omega Ruby (even though I haven't beaten the game yet).
      The True Zelda Timeline:
      ----------------/>WW|PH>ST
      SS>MC>FS>OoT|MM>TP>FSA>HW(original)>BotW(2014 version)
      ----------------\>ALttP|OoX|LA(original)>ALBW>TFH>TLoZ|TAoL
    • TriforceHolder wrote:

      That’s a very specific approximation. If it was more random than that they’d use more generalized terms “once a generation” “once in a century”. (Or maybe “once in two or three generations” depending on how long a normal Gerudo/Hylian lifespan is). The way they say it is too specific for it to be a synonym of a broad generalization.
      Not really. When people use numbers as round as 100, they're usually approximating. Though I'm pretty sure that Link slept exactly a hundred years in BotW, so I guess I'd lean more towards the literal interpretation.
      [pitch meeting] Okay so it's a ton of dogs. Dalmatians. 100 of 'em. I call it "100 Dalmatians." [idea man pipes in] Let's think bigger

      - Ristolable

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Kokopelli ().

    • ZomBrad412 wrote:

      Probably been said a million times before, but since BOTW is the new OOT-standard, definitely a return to Termina...but scarier and more disturbing...sadder too, but with the odd quirks...

      Maybe instead of shrines, something like Deku crypts?
      Who said that BOTW is the new OOT standard? OOT has a much better story with a Zelda who doesn't cry and the story wasn't about everybody dying and everything being in ruins. Though, Zelda was a goody-goody in that game, she wasn't as bad as BOTW Zelda.

      BOTW is no OOT, it's mediocre.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by PurpleandRed ().

    • PurpleandRed wrote:

      ZomBrad412 wrote:

      Probably been said a million times before, but since BOTW is the new OOT-standard, definitely a return to Termina...but scarier and more disturbing...sadder too, but with the odd quirks...

      Maybe instead of shrines, something like Deku crypts?
      Who said that BOTW is the new OOT standard? OOT has a much better story with a Zelda who doesn't cry and the story wasn't about everybody dying and everything being in ruins. Though, Zelda was a goody-goody in that game, she wasn't as bad as BOTW Zelda.
      BOTW is no OOT, it's mediocre.
      Aonuma pretty much did. Going forward, Zelda games are taking after BotW, just as games of the past have taken after OoT.

      I don't see what's wrong with crying, especially in Zelda's situation. She just lost the last of her family, most of her friends, and her home, and likely witnessed a whole bunch of citizens and soldiers getting killed by Guardians. She's allowed to have emotions, give her a ****ing break.

      And the theme of loss is complimented by a theme of new beginnings, fitting how the game looks to rewrite the series design philosophy. The destruction of old Hyrule represents the end of old Zelda. What awaits us, only time will tell, just like for Link and Zelda.

      I think BotW is great, better than OoT in many ways, including story. OoT is linear (it's not really exploring if you have to go to the same places in the same order every time), Hyrule Field is empty and boring (the Sky in SS had more to do), and progressing in the story is a chore that requires backtracking several times. OoT's Sages had wasted potential, and the scene where Ganondorf magically captures Zelda with a crystal the moment she reveals herself is especially egregious for several reasons:
      1. Why couldn't Ganondorf capture Link at the same time? Did the one crystal drain the ToP's battery, forcing him to plug it in and charge it while Link scaled his tower?
      2. Why did Ganondorf capture Zelda over Link? Link had the Master Sword and had just gotten the Light Arrows from Zelda, obviously he was the greater threat.
      3. For that matter, Ganondorf knew Link was opposing him since at least the Forest Temple. Why didn't he capture Link before he awakened all six Sages and became a bigger threat?
      In BotW, Zelda captured Ganon, and held him in captivity for 100 years. That right there marks her as the most badass Princess in Zelda history, barring HW Zelda if we're counting that one (and even then, BotW Zelda is available as a skin, which means her badassery might as well extend to that one, too). Mipha's interest in Link was far more heartfelt than Ruto's, made all the more heart-wrenching by meeting her family and befriending her brother. And at least the Champions grant you new abilities when you rescue their spirits. OoT's Sages build you a bridge.

      So, how is OoT better than BotW?
    • Miles wrote:

      PurpleandRed wrote:

      ZomBrad412 wrote:

      Probably been said a million times before, but since BOTW is the new OOT-standard, definitely a return to Termina...but scarier and more disturbing...sadder too, but with the odd quirks...

      Maybe instead of shrines, something like Deku crypts?
      Who said that BOTW is the new OOT standard? OOT has a much better story with a Zelda who doesn't cry and the story wasn't about everybody dying and everything being in ruins. Though, Zelda was a goody-goody in that game, she wasn't as bad as BOTW Zelda.BOTW is no OOT, it's mediocre.
      Aonuma pretty much did. Going forward, Zelda games are taking after BotW, just as games of the past have taken after OoT.
      I don't see what's wrong with crying, especially in Zelda's situation. She just lost the last of her family, most of her friends, and her home, and likely witnessed a whole bunch of citizens and soldiers getting killed by Guardians. She's allowed to have emotions, give her a ****ing break.

      And the theme of loss is complimented by a theme of new beginnings, fitting how the game looks to rewrite the series design philosophy. The destruction of old Hyrule represents the end of old Zelda. What awaits us, only time will tell, just like for Link and Zelda.

      I think BotW is great, better than OoT in many ways, including story. OoT is linear (it's not really exploring if you have to go to the same places in the same order every time), Hyrule Field is empty and boring (the Sky in SS had more to do), and progressing in the story is a chore that requires backtracking several times. OoT's Sages had wasted potential, and the scene where Ganondorf magically captures Zelda with a crystal the moment she reveals herself is especially egregious for several reasons:
      1. Why couldn't Ganondorf capture Link at the same time? Did the one crystal drain the ToP's battery, forcing him to plug it in and charge it while Link scaled his tower?
      2. Why did Ganondorf capture Zelda over Link? Link had the Master Sword and had just gotten the Light Arrows from Zelda, obviously he was the greater threat.
      3. For that matter, Ganondorf knew Link was opposing him since at least the Forest Temple. Why didn't he capture Link before he awakened all six Sages and became a bigger threat?
      In BotW, Zelda captured Ganon, and held him in captivity for 100 years. That right there marks her as the most badass Princess in Zelda history, barring HW Zelda if we're counting that one (and even then, BotW Zelda is available as a skin, which means her badassery might as well extend to that one, too). Mipha's interest in Link was far more heartfelt than Ruto's, made all the more heart-wrenching by meeting her family and befriending her brother. And at least the Champions grant you new abilities when you rescue their spirits. OoT's Sages build you a bridge.

      So, how is OoT better than BotW?
      Having started since the beginning with Zelda I, BOTW is a fresh breath...of the wild lol...

      I like how the story spans 10000 plus years, and still so much is left up to the player.... also, I'm glad that the story mainly takes place in the past, and now the final act is rediscovering yourself and taking action.

      It's like three games in one. It almost ended like the downfall timeline if it wasn't for Zelda. That and containing Ganon for a century > using your Hylia powers plus 7 years of Sheikah training just to play a harp...
    • Miles wrote:

      PurpleandRed wrote:

      ZomBrad412 wrote:

      Probably been said a million times before, but since BOTW is the new OOT-standard, definitely a return to Termina...but scarier and more disturbing...sadder too, but with the odd quirks...

      Maybe instead of shrines, something like Deku crypts?
      Who said that BOTW is the new OOT standard? OOT has a much better story with a Zelda who doesn't cry and the story wasn't about everybody dying and everything being in ruins. Though, Zelda was a goody-goody in that game, she wasn't as bad as BOTW Zelda.BOTW is no OOT, it's mediocre.
      Aonuma pretty much did. Going forward, Zelda games are taking after BotW, just as games of the past have taken after OoT.
      I don't see what's wrong with crying, especially in Zelda's situation. She just lost the last of her family, most of her friends, and her home, and likely witnessed a whole bunch of citizens and soldiers getting killed by Guardians. She's allowed to have emotions, give her a ****ing break.

      And the theme of loss is complimented by a theme of new beginnings, fitting how the game looks to rewrite the series design philosophy. The destruction of old Hyrule represents the end of old Zelda. What awaits us, only time will tell, just like for Link and Zelda.

      I think BotW is great, better than OoT in many ways, including story. OoT is linear (it's not really exploring if you have to go to the same places in the same order every time), Hyrule Field is empty and boring (the Sky in SS had more to do), and progressing in the story is a chore that requires backtracking several times. OoT's Sages had wasted potential, and the scene where Ganondorf magically captures Zelda with a crystal the moment she reveals herself is especially egregious for several reasons:
      1. Why couldn't Ganondorf capture Link at the same time? Did the one crystal drain the ToP's battery, forcing him to plug it in and charge it while Link scaled his tower?
      2. Why did Ganondorf capture Zelda over Link? Link had the Master Sword and had just gotten the Light Arrows from Zelda, obviously he was the greater threat.
      3. For that matter, Ganondorf knew Link was opposing him since at least the Forest Temple. Why didn't he capture Link before he awakened all six Sages and became a bigger threat?
      In BotW, Zelda captured Ganon, and held him in captivity for 100 years. That right there marks her as the most badass Princess in Zelda history, barring HW Zelda if we're counting that one (and even then, BotW Zelda is available as a skin, which means her badassery might as well extend to that one, too). Mipha's interest in Link was far more heartfelt than Ruto's, made all the more heart-wrenching by meeting her family and befriending her brother. And at least the Champions grant you new abilities when you rescue their spirits. OoT's Sages build you a bridge.

      So, how is OoT better than BotW?
      Zelda cried in front of Link, he's a non-relative, crying in front of people who aren't close relatives is probably emotionally weak. Yeah, crying is weak. So Zelda is emotionally weak. Zelda needs to be a stoic character and hold back her tears in front of Link. I don't like stuff where everyone is dying and that's why OOT is better than BOTW because it didn't have a crying Zelda who is arrogant like BOTW has Link and it wasn't about everyone dying. BOTW's got a hopeful ending, but I still hate the everyone is dying plot and felt that was Un-zelda like. MM had something similar but if you let the moon fall, the game is over so that isn't supposed to happen. You're supposed to go back in time a bunch of times and stop the moon from falling on Termina. And in Ikana Valley, almost everyone is already dead and they're not even major characters.

      I think SS is more linear than OOT, I don't understand why you think SS has more to do than OOT. OOT had more places to go like the ranch, the lake, Kakariko village etc.. you can even fall into holes! I mean, yeah, I agree OOT isn't much of a classic Zelda in its exploration. I do like open worlds too.