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    Master Ideas! Wishes/Wants/Ideas for Future Zelda titles
    • PJCLink wrote:

      I'm just going to ignore this very ad hominem response.
      It was not ad hominem. It was just my way of saying there are more things wrong with what you said than I care to dissect.

      PJCLink wrote:

      What the hell does Link's age or his clothing wear have to with the game not being an OoT sequel? So is TP not an OoT sequel because it's not the same clothing? Is it that it's a different Link? So is ALBW not an ALttP sequel cause it's a new Link. You have me confused here.
      Yup, it's the thing about it being a new Link and Zelda. Unless specifically stated otherwise, I always assume that sequels in the Zelda context refers to direct sequels.

      PJCLink wrote:

      MM was a direct sequel to OoT, in that it featured the same Link. What I'm talking about is a sequel set in the same version of Hyrule but with a new generation of Link and Zelda, like ALBW did as an ALttP sequel. Which is totally different from direct sequels. So more of a same era sequel or as I like to call a "close sequel". Not a "distant sequel" like TP or WW.
      How can it be the same version of Hyrule if it's 2D? If you want to pitch a requel, as much as I might hate it for that reason alone, you're free to do so. However, what you're pitching is basically "here's an OoT requel except it's really not a requel it takes about as much from other games as it does OoT, and doesn't even reuse the same world".

      Miles wrote:

      Or, since Link is supposed to be our avatar, how romantic he can be could depend on our choices. Little gestures like holding hands and giving or returning hugs could allow the players to influence the direction of a scene. I think a relationship system would be a great way to give players in both camps what they want; the nonromantic players can keep the relationship platonic all the way through, while the pro-romance players get to enjoy Link and Zelda being a little more intimate.
      I'd be all for that, but like you said, slippery slope.

      pj777 wrote:

      If they do decide to give him a personally, again they can't half-ass it and try to make him this black slate / personality hybrid. It just takes the worse of both worlds and combines it into a character that doesn't quite make sense.
      After making a requel with ALBW, it's no surprise they went with the worst of both worlds approach again with BotW Link, giving us the ability to customize his outfit while also removing the ability to name him. Might as well throw in the fact that they've finally added voice-acting, only to remove the heavy story that made it necessary in the first place. Man, this game is just filled with contradictions, isn't it?
      The Twilight Realm was basically wizard Australia where every naughty banished person was transformed into some sort of harmless albino penguins.
      ~ Gamtos

      WW is Nintendo's Up, basically. Link is Russell, Tetra is Doug, and uh, I guess maybe Tingle is Kevin?

      ~ Gregarious Tree
    • @Kokiri Kid

      Having named characters with outfits you can change is nothing new in games and doesn't hurt it, but yeah BoTW was a big case of taking one big step forward then tripping on a rock. In some cases it flat out fell on its face. I've always said it has a solid foundation to be one if not the best open world game to date but falters in too many areas to reach that level. I can keep my fingers crossed and hope this DLC rumor turns it around, but that's wishful thinking vs. being realistic.
      It's a shame to ruin such a beautiful morning by being awake

      -Bill Watterson
    • Kokiri Kid wrote:

      It was not ad hominem. It was just my way of saying there are more things wrong with what you said than I care to dissect.
      I still don't get the problem with the idea of an OoT sequel. Even if it's in 2D.

      Kokiri Kid wrote:

      Yup, it's the thing about it being a new Link and Zelda.
      So ALBW isn't an ALttP sequel because it had a different Link and Zelda? Even though Nintendo themselves straight out confirmed that it was an ALttP sequel.

      Kokiri Kid wrote:

      Unless specifically stated otherwise, I always assume that sequels in the Zelda context refers to direct sequels.
      I get you assume direct sequel when you see "sequel". But when you see "different Link and Zelda", shouldn't that immediately click in your head that the sequel idea talked about is actually not a direct sequel?

      Kokiri Kid wrote:

      How can it be the same version of Hyrule if it's 2D? If you want to pitch a requel, as much as I might hate it for that reason alone, you're free to do so.
      Um, it is possible to remake a 3D Zelda world into 2D top down space. Look up OoT 2D! Yes, it's fan made, but it does prove that OoT's world can be made into a top down environment. Heck, ALBW's was literally made from scratch, as Aonuma and the team that worked with him on the game had to carefully follow by ALttP's design as much as possible. The fans that made OoT 2D had to do the same with OoT's world, but in 2D form. And it worked. In other words, it's possible. And if it's possible, than a 2D OoT sequel is just as possible.

      To prove it to you, I can even make one quite easy to show you if you'd like. Yeah, it may take time. But I can do it. And that says a lot coming from one person.

      Kokiri Kid wrote:

      However, what you're pitching is basically "here's an OoT requel except it's really not a requel it takes about as much from other games as it does OoT, and doesn't even reuse the same world".
      Don't put your own words in my mouth. I never said that my idea doesn't reuse the same world. It does reuse the same world, just that it'd be recreated in a top down environment form. Which is possible as I explained above. Just that it'd take things from ALttP and TP because it would also be a prequel to those games. As my idea is that the game would be where the downfall timeline branches from, if Link loses. I said straight in my idea that it'd have a Zelda II esque bad ending that shows you that the imprisoning war happens as Link loses in the game over sequence. While if Link triumphs, Ganondorf is sealed away into the Twilight Realm by the sages, leading to TP. I explained this perfectly clear.
      The True Zelda Timeline:
      ----------------/>WW|PH>ST
      SS>MC>FS>OoT|MM>TP>FSA>HW(original)>BotW(2014 version)
      ----------------\>ALttP|OoX|LA(original)>ALBW>TFH>TLoZ|TAoL
    • Kind of a pity we don't get more amiibo allies like Wolf Link in BotW. I think it'd be super-cool if the next Zelda was accompanied by a bunch of Zelda amiibo of characters from across the series who you can summon to your side. Ooh, imagine rereleases of SS, OoT, MM, and TP on Switch with accompanying amiibo. Besides the Links and Zeldas of those games, imagine summoning the Six Sages, Deku Link, Goron Link, Zora Link, FIERCE DEITY LINK, Midna, and Fi. They might even let you summon villains like Twinrova, Skull Kid, Zant, Ghirahim, and none other than Ganondorf.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Miles ().

    • But could we summon eighteen different version of Link to fight for us? I'd pay to see that.

      PJCLink - Ad Hominem is an argumentative tactic in which the respondent belittles the person making the argument in order to avoid having to rebut the argument itself. If someone insults you while rebutting your argument or gives you the Firefly equivalent of a face palm that's not ad hominem.

      For instance:
      Party A: 2 + 2 = 5

      Party B: You're stupid.

      That's ad hominem.


      Party A: 2 + 2 = 5

      Party B: That is quantifiable not true under a number of mathematical metrics I have here and you are stupid for believing it could be true.

      That might be a little unprofessional but it is not ad homenim. Please stop saying that every time you feel you have been personally insulted. Especially considering when you do say it, it is usually in an effort to avoid whatever point had been made along with the perceived insult which somewhat ironically is the same goal as ad homenim.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • @TriforceHolder

      Here's the definition of Ad Hominem.

      Ad Hominem:
      1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining."vicious ad hominem attacks"
      2. relating to or associated with a particular person."the office was created ad hominem for Fenton"
      In other words, any sort of reaction directed towards other in the argument that does not legitimately counter-argue what the other is saying is Ad Hominem. How Kokiri Kid responded to one of my points was Ad Hominem. I ignored his denial because I know it was Ad Hominem. I've done my research. I know what it is.

      So, sorry, but you are wrong. I used the word/term in conversational sentences legitimately, appropriately, and rightfully. It is you and Kokiri Kid is thought it wrong.

      Anyways. Back on topic.

      I'd really want the next 3D Zelda game to be a Breath of the Wild prequel that takes place during the 10,000 year legend period. Or just another Zelda with motion controls again, but done better this time. Also, a revisit to WW's flooded/sunken lost kingdom concept would be nice as well.
      The True Zelda Timeline:
      ----------------/>WW|PH>ST
      SS>MC>FS>OoT|MM>TP>FSA>HW(original)>BotW(2014 version)
      ----------------\>ALttP|OoX|LA(original)>ALBW>TFH>TLoZ|TAoL
    • PJCLink wrote:

      @TriforceHolder

      Here's the definition of Ad Hominem.

      Ad Hominem:
      1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining."vicious ad hominem attacks"
      2. relating to or associated with a particular person."the office was created ad hominem for Fenton"
      In other words, any sort of reaction directed towards other in the argument that does not legitimately counter-argue what the other is saying is Ad Hominem. How Kokiri Kid responded to one of my points was Ad Hominem. I ignored his denial because I know it was Ad Hominem. I've done my research. I know what it is.

      You are very literally presenting evidence against your own case. The definition as presented by you specifies that ad hominem is a directed attack against a person rather than the position they are maintaining. If someone deconstructs your position and in the process insults you for holding that position that is not ad hominem. For it to be ad hominem they must target you specifically instead of your argument. If they deviate from that in any way it could be called a lot of things, unprofessional being the main one but it can't be called ad hominem.

      Kokiri Kid's does not qualify as it did not contain a directed attack. It was the visual equivalent of "I'm so stunned by what you said that I don't know how to respond."
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • TriforceHolder wrote:

      You are very literally presenting evidence against your own case.
      Nope. You just like to say I'm wrong, despite the evidence proving me right, cause you hate me. But hey, at least I'm not one showing so much Ad Hominem about it.

      TriforceHolder wrote:

      The definition as presented by you specifies that ad hominem is a directed attack against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
      Which is exactly what Kokiri Kid did and what you are doing right now.

      TriforceHolder wrote:

      If someone deconstructs your position and in the process insults you for holding that position that is not ad hominem.
      Except Kokiri Kid didn't deconstruct my position. Not in the part of his post that I called out as Ad Hominem. Please! Please tell me how this video here:

      fat.gfycat.com/AdmiredEarlyDegus.webm

      deconstructed my position that it was a response to! The answer is simple! It didn't! All it did was offend me directly! That is Ad Hominem cause that's what Ad Hominem is! And that was the only part of his post that I called out as Ad Hominem cause it was the only response directed towards only one specific part of my position. Not mention everything else in his post didn't exactly deconstruct my position anyways cause he still didn't prove or convince me wrong. Again, Ad Hominem.

      TriforceHolder wrote:

      For it to be ad hominem they must target you specifically instead of your argument.
      Not exactly. Believe or not I've been told that I showing Ad Hominem, despite targeting the argument. That's exactly how I found out about Ad Hominem in the first place. You can still be showing Ad Hominem even if it seems to you like you're trying to prove an argument against yours wrong. If you're so focused on targeting the individual specifically and trying to prove not only how wrong they are but how dumb they are, then it's still Ad Hominem. Especially if the focus on the person, even if it seems to directed toward the argument.

      Kokiri Kid literally tried to make me look like an idiot (the video used as a reaction says it all) and now so are you (and much like a certain other individual who has a grudge against me).

      It may not look like Ad Hominem at first glance but if it you who received such a response, you'd see why I said it's Ad Hominem. It's like a clever way of trying to attack someone and get away with it. Think of it as like a wolf in sheep's clothing. A lot of bullies use these sort of methods to put others down. That's exactly how a lot of bullies in this day and age tend to get away with things they do to hurt people.

      Now my post may seem like Ad Hominem, but it's not, because I'm actually focusing on proving what you said wrong, while at the same time talking in defense. The part of this post that's defensive is about the only part that may rub off as Ad Hominem, when it isn't because it's a defense against Ad Hominem.

      TriforceHolder wrote:

      If they deviate from that in any way it could be called a lot of things, unprofessional being the main one but it can't be called ad hominem.
      Again, this is wrong. As I said and explained above, it doens't have to look like a direct attack to be Ad Hominem. There ways to make what's actually Ad Hominem look legit and innocent. There's this thing called social engineering. People can say something as a direct response to an argument, but it really prove against it or anything. It may look like a legit counter argument at first glance, but when you actually take a good look at it, especially if you're the person receiving the response, and you know you're the one who's still right and not proven wrong, you'd know immediately that it's actually more directed at you than your argument.

      Opinions being attacked, hated, and ranted on counts as an attack against you. Once again, Ad Hominem!

      TriforceHolder wrote:

      Kokiri Kid's does not qualify as it did not contain a directed attack.
      Yes it did. Especially the post with the video he shared. What wonderful counter argument towards me and not at all my position that was.

      TriforceHolder wrote:

      It was the visual equivalent of "I'm so stunned by what you said that I don't know how to respond."
      Exactly. And it was in a very offensive manner. It basically made me feel like I was being called out as dumb. Which again, is what ad hominem is.

      Anyways, thanks again for your ad hominem and once again trying to keep this awesome thread off topic.

      So speaking of the actual topic of thread. Does anyone want the next 3D Zelda to revisit WW's concept of a flooded/sunken lost kingdom of Hyrule?
      The True Zelda Timeline:
      ----------------/>WW|PH>ST
      SS>MC>FS>OoT|MM>TP>FSA>HW(original)>BotW(2014 version)
      ----------------\>ALttP|OoX|LA(original)>ALBW>TFH>TLoZ|TAoL
    • PJCLink wrote:

      Nope. You just like to say I'm wrong, despite the evidence proving me right, cause you hate me. But hey, at least I'm not one showing so much Ad Hominem about it.

      That's ad hominem.

      The term is primarily used as a legal strategy. The idea is to discredit the source of a certain piece of evidence or testimony in order to make what they are presenting look unreliable.

      For instance: A witness claims that they saw the defendant murder the victim of a case. Rather than targeting the details of the witnesses account the lawyer instead brings up the witness's past of extensive drug use as a means by which to convince the jury that what he says cannot be trusted. Another version of this is to suggest an ulterior motive for the witness saying what he did. Maybe the lawyer brings up how the witness owes the defendant a great deal of money or has a personal grudge against him and so would be pleased to see him in jail.

      Similarly you claiming that I'm wrong and saying that it's "because I hate you" is a means by which you discredit my position because it is me that is speaking not because of what I am saying. If as you postulate I do hate you I have a motive to discredit you and by that token am saying what I am to attack you rather than make a point.

      By the way, I don't hate you. I don't really know you. For me at least hate requires a personal connection and the closest I have to that with you is you having a few ideas that I don't really care for. If I'm going to spend energy hating someone it's going to be for a much better reason than that.

      PJCLink wrote:

      Except Kokiri Kid didn't deconstruct my position. Not in the part of his post that I called out as Ad Hominem. Please! Please tell me how this video here:

      fat.gfycat.com/AdmiredEarlyDegus.webm

      deconstructed my position that it was a response to! The answer is simple! It didn't! All it did was offend me directly! That is Ad Hominem cause that's what Ad Hominem is!

      It didn't deconstruct your position in any way. However you are forgetting that there is a second part to an ad hominem argument, a directed attack. This is a visual equivalent of "I have no words to respond to this." I am very sorry if you took offence to how Kokiri Kid responded but Ad Hominem is a very clinically defined type of argument that is entirely about the intent of the statement and not the reception. Ad hominem is intended to damage the target's credibility with anyone witnessing the argument. Kokiri Kid's response could not damage your credibility any more than an annoyed sigh would. Any counter made to something you say does not qualify as ad hominem simply because people disagreeing with you offends your sensibilities.

      Incidentally that line in bold is ad hominem because it indicates that what you are saying is invalid because you as the presenter are easily offended and so should be taken less seriously.

      PJCLink wrote:

      Opinions being attacked, hated, and ranted on counts as an attack against you. Once again, Ad Hominem!

      Finally, this is undeniably untrue. All argument is composed of two people with differing opinions pitting the strengths and weaknesses of those opinions against each other. If any deconstruction of an opinion qualified as ad hominem then all arguments would be considered ad hominem and there would be no need for a specific term for it. As it is ad hominem is a directed attack meant to discredit the source of an argument with the desire to invalidate the argument due to the lack of credibility of who is presenting it. If you are indeed targeting the argument itself ad hominem becomes unnecessary as if you disprove a concept discrediting the presenter doesn't accomplish anything. Only when the argument itself holds up reasonably well does ad hominem become a more strategic option.

      Essentially it boils down to this. After reading the opposing comment would the comment still disprove your argument if someone other than yourself stepped in right after and presented the same argument. If the answer is yes then the comment is not ad hominem, it's probably just a little overly aggressive.

      Side Note: This isn't really relevant to the conversation at large but you might want to think about cutting back on the exclamation marks. Giving people the impression that you are screaming in fury doesn't really endear anyone to want to agree with you.

      PJCLink wrote:

      So speaking of the actual topic of thread. Does anyone want the next 3D Zelda to revisit WW's concept of a flooded/sunken lost kingdom of Hyrule?

      Maybe it could work. Probably the only way it would though is if they made the flooded/sunken lost kingdom the focus of the game. Wind Waker pretty much did all you could with coming at that idea from the top side of it and gave us almost nothing below the waves at all. If they were to go there again without making it feel like a retred there best course of action would be to make 90% of the game take place below the waves with maybe two or three hub islands in the surface world.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.

      The post was edited 9 times, last by TriforceHolder ().

    • TriforceHolder wrote:

      That's ad hominem.
      No. What you said here is Ad Hominem. I wasn't attacking you. You are the attacking me and constantly bring this thread off topic.

      TriforceHolder wrote:

      The term is primarily used as a legal strategy. The idea is to discredit the source of a certain piece of evidence or testimony in order to make what they are presenting look unreliable.
      Uh, what? You can source of my evidence to credited. Well fine. Here's a link:

      Google Search - Ad Hominem

      TriforceHolder wrote:

      For instance: A witness claims that they saw the defendant murder the victim of a case. Rather than targeting the details of the witnesses account the lawyer instead brings up the witness's past of extensive drug use as a means by which to convince the jury that what he says cannot be trusted. Another version of this is to suggest an ulterior motive for the witness saying what he did. Maybe the lawyer brings up how the witness owes the defendant a great deal of money or has a personal grudge against him and so would be pleased to see him in jail.
      Here, I'm a witness and a victim here. Can't say that I'm a lawyer cause I'm not a mod. So I don't have that power and neither do you. But all I can say is that like I said, you're only just saying all this to hurt me. Again, that's Ad Hominem.

      I won't respond to the rest except one more bit (where you actually decided to care about the thread's topic) because all that Ad Hominem is not what this thread is for.

      TriforceHolder wrote:

      Maybe it could work. Probably the only way it would though is if they made the flooded/sunken lost kingdom the focus of the game. Wind Waker pretty much did all you could with coming at that idea from the top side of it and gave us almost nothing below the waves at all. If they were to go there again without making it feel like a retred there best course of action would be to make 90% of the game take place below the waves with maybe two or three hub islands in the surface world.
      The only thing you said here that I agree with at all. Yes, next time they attempt that concept again, they need to have more focus on the world below water rather just a few visits in just a small portion and that's it. But they also still gotta have stuff to do in the world above water as well. We don't want another SS situation where while there was plenty to do on the surface but there was not enough stuff to do in the sky.
      The True Zelda Timeline:
      ----------------/>WW|PH>ST
      SS>MC>FS>OoT|MM>TP>FSA>HW(original)>BotW(2014 version)
      ----------------\>ALttP|OoX|LA(original)>ALBW>TFH>TLoZ|TAoL
    • PJCLink wrote:

      I still don't get the problem with the idea of an OoT sequel. Even if it's in 2D.

      You're completely missing the point. I guess I'll just have to dissect the original statement after all. Here it is:

      PJCLink wrote:

      it would be the game to decide whether TP happens or ALttP happens, being a more proper cause for the "Downfall" split. For instance, if Link loses, the imprisoning war happens, leading in ALttP, ALBW, and so on. But if Link wins, Ganondorf is sealed in the Twilight Realm, leading to TP.
      First off, the split concerns Link dying in OoT, not some distant sequel. What's the point of retconning the split to happen 100 years later or whenever? Second off, if you're gonna delve into the split, why would you still make it centered on a what-if scenario instead of providing an actual reason for the split, making the DT properly canon? This idea just makes no sense in the slightest, as does your pitch overall.

      PJCLink wrote:

      I get you assume direct sequel when you see "sequel". But when you see "different Link and Zelda", shouldn't that immediately click in your head that the sequel idea talked about is actually not a direct sequel?
      Oh please point me to where in your pitch you mentioned new incarnations.

      I deduced based on Link being younger than in OoT (and even then, that only came up sixth and second-to-last paragraph), but now I've remember child Link is a thing, so you didn't even imply a new incarnation.


      PJCLink wrote:

      Um, it is possible to remake a 3D Zelda world into 2D top down space. Look up OoT 2D! Yes, it's fan made, but it does prove that OoT's world can be made into a top down environment. Heck, ALBW's was literally made from scratch, as Aonuma and the team that worked with him on the game had to carefully follow by ALttP's design as much as possible. The fans that made OoT 2D had to do the same with OoT's world, but in 2D form. And it worked. In other words, it's possible. And if it's possible, than a 2D OoT sequel is just as possible.
      I know, I've heard of it, and have the overworld map in my Zelda map folder on my computer. The point is that's not as direct and seamless as taking an already 2D world like ALttP and keeping 2D like in ALBW. Also, the orientation of certain things in OoT 2D don't feel quite right.


      PJCLink wrote:

      Don't put your own words in my mouth.
      Fair enough. My wording could've been better.

      Now that's enough discussion dissection for me. I'll you guys figure out whatever followed.
      The Twilight Realm was basically wizard Australia where every naughty banished person was transformed into some sort of harmless albino penguins.
      ~ Gamtos

      WW is Nintendo's Up, basically. Link is Russell, Tetra is Doug, and uh, I guess maybe Tingle is Kevin?

      ~ Gregarious Tree
    • "You are saying this because you hate me so what you say means nothing." Is pretty much the very definition of ad hominem. Also did you actually open any of the links from that google search? Google itself is not a credible source, it just compiles sources into an easily accessible medium. More importantly though the number one link refers to several different legal cases for examples of the argument type. Yes it gets it's roots from Greek philosophy but that's mostly academic in today's application of it. Also every one of those links stresses that ad hominem avoids targeting the argument in favour of devaluing the person. An argument that does both is not ad hominem.

      Out of curiosity are you having trouble understanding me? You took a courtroom example I was using to explain ad hominem and seemed to think I was asking for evidence of your claim and the bit about witnesses and victims seemed to have you thinking that I was invoking moderator powers. I just want to be sure that I'm being clear in what I am saying. This is completely separate from the argument by the way, I just want to know if I should changing the way I am writing to get my meaning across more clearly.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by TriforceHolder ().

    • Kokiri Kid wrote:

      First off, the split concerns Link dying in OoT, not some distant sequel. What's the point of retconning the split to happen 100 years later or whenever?
      I know. But there's this beautiful called a retcon! Which by the way, the Zelda series is no stranger to. One of the most famous retcons is SS rejecting the idea that MC is the origins of Link's cap. And then of course even the DT itself is a huge retcon cause there's no in-game canon ending in OoT where Link loses to Ganon. My idea of a 2D OoT sequel would help solve that problem by pulling another famous Zelda retcon, by making it so that if the Link of this sequel lost, the DT happens. I also already explained that earlier, that such a change would actually help make the timeline to be less convoluted for once.

      But what do I know. I guess that one change of OoX's placement never happened! Seriously you act like changes to the timeline hasn't happened before.

      Kokiri Kid wrote:

      Second off, if you're gonna delve into the split, why would you still make it centered on a what-if scenario instead of providing an actual reason for the split, making the DT properly canon?
      Well, at least there would actually be an in-game ending that may I remind you OoT does not have! Which is worse? A DT with no explanation at all besides an ending to OoT that never existed in-game, let alone even happened at all, left up to our imaginations as how the hell that makes any sense, when it doesn't at all? Or OoT getting a sequel that gives a much better explanation for the DT by actually giving us an ending. Maybe the ending, instead of a special TAoL/MM style game over sequence, can just be a bad ending if you didn't get enough of certain stuff, and we watch Link lose, despite that we actually won the game.

      There, is that better? It's either this or Nintendo should just rethink the whole timeline. You see? This is exactly why the DT should not have even happened in the first place!

      Kokiri Kid wrote:

      This idea just makes no sense in the slightest, as does your pitch overall.
      If you actually read everything I said in every detail and didn't hate me so much, you'd understand that my idea makes more sense than you think or want to be. Again, you attacked me directly by attacking my idea.

      Kokiri Kid wrote:

      Oh please point me to where in your pitch you mentioned new incarnations.
      Well, I actually forgot to mention that originally. I thought I did. Though I did mention it'd be a sequel like ALBW is to ALttP. So I guess I thought that should've clicked in people's heads that I meant with new Link and Zelda, so I might of just naturally thought I mentioned that idea that it didn't occur to that I didn't. Though I could've sworn I mentioned a different Link and Zelda. I swear, I'm losing my mind sometimes and stress from frustrating situations like these kind of arguments are the cause. I have had a tired and stressed out mind lately.

      Kokiri Kid wrote:

      I deduced based on Link being younger than in OoT (and even then, that only came up sixth and second-to-last paragraph), but now I've remember child Link is a thing, so you didn't even imply a new incarnation.
      Again, in way I did when I mentioned ALBW. I just didn't say it straight out like I thought I did.

      Kokiri Kid wrote:

      I know, I've heard of it, and have the overworld map in my Zelda map folder on my computer. The point is that's not as direct and seamless as taking an already 2D world like ALttP and keeping 2D like in ALBW. Also, the orientation of certain things in OoT 2D don't feel quite right.
      It doesn't have to be 100% exact! ALBW's world isn't exactly 100% like ALttP's world either!

      Anyways, I've been having crappy days lately. And so, since life sucks, this may be the last time you see active at all. I don't know, maybe I just need a break. But long story short. There's nothing wrong with my idea. I just didn't explain well enough in the initial sharing of it. Again, mostly because, I've been cranky lately due to recent stress.

      Sorry for all the drama. But I'm need of lots of rest.
      The True Zelda Timeline:
      ----------------/>WW|PH>ST
      SS>MC>FS>OoT|MM>TP>FSA>HW(original)>BotW(2014 version)
      ----------------\>ALttP|OoX|LA(original)>ALBW>TFH>TLoZ|TAoL

      The post was edited 1 time, last by PJC ().

    • Maybe if you focused more on clarity and less on antagonising anyone who had the slightest problem or question about your ideas you might find more support for them.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • Alright, unfortunately I know this will never happen because of Nintendo's stance on Termina but:

      A technical Majora's Mask sequel set in the Adult Timeline. In this version of events Link never arrived in Termina and so was not there to prevent Majora's corrupting influence compelling Skull Kid to bring down the moon. In his absence four heroes arose from the provinces of Termina, people who had believed to have been killed in the weeks leading up the 100th Carnival of Time. The Deku Butler's Son of Woodfall, Darmani of Snowhead, Mikau of Great Bay and a mysterious purple haired youth who bore a striking similarity to the Mayor's son at a very young age. These four cleared the respective temples of their lands, cleansing the curses Skull Kid left behind and freeing the giants who they brought to the clock tower to hold the moon while they ascended into it to combat the malevolent power of the mask. As the new day dawned the moon dispersed into the far distance in a shower of rainbow colored light leaving the four champions dead on the top of the clock tower.

      On the Dawn of the New Day the army that was struck down fighting inside the Stone Tower were brought back to life. Ikana at the time with a significantly reduced population opened it's borders inviting those that wanted a chance at a fresh start to immigrate. However twenty years previous they mysteriously sealed themselves off for no apparent reason. It is now fifty years after the Dawn of the New Day and the Carnival of Time is once again approaching. There is however something that has the townspeople buzzing. The kingdom of Ikana sent a messenger to the mayor of Clock Town proclaiming that they intend to send an emissary on the eve of the Carnival of Time to discuss the reopening of Ikana's borders. When this happens it is revealed that Ikana shut itself away because the seal on the Stone Tower had once again been broken. Over the last twenty years the armies of Ikana have been holding back the tides of undead and have managed to fight their way to the top and restore the seal. However at the top their King heard the voice of someone proclaiming to be a sky goddess telling him that he must build the Stone Tower higher, warning that a cataclysm will fall upon the land if he does not. Your job in the game is to unravel the mystery of the Sky Goddess and the impending cataclysm before it is too late. (To be clear I do have a through line with that but I'm fairly certain it won't be the most popular idea so I'd like to wait to see if anyone likes this much before I bring it out.)

      The game world is of course based on the land of Termina from Majora's Mask but expanded significantly. In this version of history Termina was saved but there was no time travel involved so the champions only had time to complete the single major quest line of each province. Following that the failure to resolve all the side quests shapes how the world has progressed since the Dawn of the New Day. Without Link to protect their shipments Romani Ranch has suffered incredibly losses from banditry only the Milk Road resulting in them having to sell of vast tracks of land to the neighbouring Gorman bros. They survive on what little Chateau Romani they can export which the Gormans have never been able to reproduce. In Woodfall the Deku Princess wasn't discovered till it was far too late and as such her father took out his anger on the monkey's of the region. Still persisting is a 500 rupee bounty on any monkey found in the woodfall area. Woodfall though now a notable tourist attraction is very suspicious of strangers and allows only Deku into the main palace. The Mountain Smithy has since expanded, through a partnering with the Goron tribe they've made a killing off of gold dust and now make most of the metalwork for Termina. The Goron Chief (crying baby from MM, since he didn't get a name in that let's call him) Darunia still suffers from insomnia after his father never returned to him as a child. In Great Bay Lulu's eggs were never found and her voice did not return. Without their main singer the Zora's suffered a devastating cultural loss as the Indigo-gos broke up. Meanwhile the Pirate Queen Aveil with the money she got from selling Lulu's eggs expanded The Pirates Fortress into a floating dock town that functions as a gathering place for the more unsavoury elements of Termina. In Clock Town the mayor is preparing to retire and without his son Kafei to take his place his job is being heavily vied for by groups based on the workers and soldiers that were arguing in his office in MM. Stuff like that. If anyone has anything they want to add to that pile be my guest.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • What if there was a land beyond Hyrule where the Gerudo were all male, and sought wives from other tribes? Maybe long ago their race was split into two, each half cursed to produce children of one gender save for one child born every 100 years, a child destined to be their ruler. Each half lived in a different land, and over time came to forget the other even existed, or believed them to be only a myth. Until one day, when a Hylian princess and her knight helps them reunite, finally breaking the curse. From that day forward, Gerudo males could be more commonplace in the series, though Gerudo vai and voe both might still regularly practice mixing with other tribes out of habit.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Miles ().

    • I think with that idea, with a male lawless band of criminals who require another population to survive you face the very disturbing implication that they rape and pillage in order to reproduce which doesn’t sound like the best thing for Zelda’s image or really the kind of race that Link should be assisting over putting in the ground.

      The implied means by which the female Gerudo reproduce is already pretty skeezy and that one can assume is with full consent.

      Not to mention that if one tribe is cursed to only produce men and the other only produce women wouldn’t the union of those two be infertility not normality? The women can’t bear sons for these men and these men can’t produce girls for these women so they’re left with no children at all.

      As of BotW the Gerudo are also getting very unfortunately indistinct from the Hylians. Take away the last marked biological difference and give it a game or two and they will essentially be desert hylians if they still live in the desert at all.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • PJCLink wrote:

      I know. But there's this beautiful called a retcon! Which by the way, the Zelda series is no stranger to. One of the most famous retcons is SS rejecting the idea that MC is the origins of Link's cap. And then of course even the DT itself is a huge retcon cause there's no in-game canon ending in OoT where Link loses to Ganon. My idea of a 2D OoT sequel would help solve that problem by pulling another famous Zelda retcon, by making it so that if the Link of this sequel lost, the DT happens. I also already explained that earlier, that such a change would actually help make the timeline to be less convoluted for once.
      I know what retcon is, as evidenced by my usage of the term. I know it's just a figure of speech, but still.
      My point is that your proposition doesn't actually "solve" anything.

      PJCLink wrote:

      Well, at least there would actually be an in-game ending that may I remind you OoT does not have! Which is worse? A DT with no explanation at all besides an ending to OoT that never existed in-game, let alone even happened at all, left up to our imaginations as how the hell that makes any sense, when it doesn't at all? Or OoT getting a sequel that gives a much better explanation for the DT by actually giving us an ending. Maybe the ending, instead of a special TAoL/MM style game over sequence, can just be a bad ending if you didn't get enough of certain stuff, and we watch Link lose, despite that we actually won the game.

      There, is that better? It's either this or Nintendo should just rethink the whole timeline. You see? This is exactly why the DT should have even happened in the first place!
      Stop skipping words. It's becoming confusing.
      Anyway, the obvious solution would be to simply add a bad ending or, if you ask me, a different ending that isn't a what-if, to OoT, like they should've done with the 3D version. Unfortunately, they were too concerned with making that version exactly the same as the original, which, while a good option, should not come at the cost of new features. A remake should always add new content.

      PJCLink wrote:

      Well, I actually forgot to mention that originally. I thought I did. Though I did mention it'd be a sequel like ALBW is to ALttP. So I guess I thought that should've clicked in people's heads that I meant with new Link and Zelda, so I might of just naturally thought I mentioned that idea that it didn't occur to that I didn't. Though I could've sworn I mentioned a different Link and Zelda. I swear, I'm losing my mind sometimes and stress from frustrating situations like these kind of arguments are the cause. I have had a tired and stressed out mind lately.
      Don't sweat it! I find dissecting each and every paragraph just as tedious.

      Nobody likes the drama. Get well soon!
      The Twilight Realm was basically wizard Australia where every naughty banished person was transformed into some sort of harmless albino penguins.
      ~ Gamtos

      WW is Nintendo's Up, basically. Link is Russell, Tetra is Doug, and uh, I guess maybe Tingle is Kevin?

      ~ Gregarious Tree

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Violetlight: Mod Edit. Will PM ().

    • TriforceHolder, your pitch sounds great and all, but with Skull Kid still cursing Termina without Link to stop him, how would the four "Champions" (great BotW connection you made there) not die (except of course Kafei)?
      The Twilight Realm was basically wizard Australia where every naughty banished person was transformed into some sort of harmless albino penguins.
      ~ Gamtos

      WW is Nintendo's Up, basically. Link is Russell, Tetra is Doug, and uh, I guess maybe Tingle is Kevin?

      ~ Gregarious Tree