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    • Serious
    This part of the Timeline is wrong, Why and How.


    • The following;

      Skyward Sword, Era of Chaos, Era of Prosperity, Hyrule Established, Force Era, Hyrule unification War, Ocarina of Time.


      Is wrong.


      You may had already seen my Timeline in my Signature, and how (exept obviously BOTW) it's the same games order than Hyrule Historia has.
      Right, the official Games Order is fine, even perfect ! (Hyrule Encyclopedia is officialy Ambiguously Canon, so OOA/S are where they have to be.)
      So, it's not about the Games order ...

      It's about the Era Order.
      I would swap the Force Era with the Era of Chaos and Prosperity.

      So, it's just that ?
      Yeah, pretty much, but it has a huge meaning in the unseen lore of Zelda.

      Here the new version of this following:

      Skyward Sword, Hyrule Established, Force Era, Era of Chaos and Proserity, Hyrule Unification War, Ocarina of Time.

      You might thinking right now "but why do we need to change that in the first place ?"
      I want to debating about this with you below, but here some reasons;

      -There are some incoherences in the Lore it would correct; for exemple the Goron reunification.
      Rauru had given the Goron Ruby to the Gorons at the Era of Prosperity, but the Gorons were not a unified Tribe between Skyward Sword and Minish Cap, it's during the side Quest in the Goron Cavern with Strage wall kindstones fusion, Where Gorons learn about Team Work, the Goron Tribe reborn. (Carlov's Figurines told us that Gorons once lived on Mount Crenel.)

      -Did Zelda and Link from Skyward Sword established Hyrule ? Because this order told us it's not. It make sense that it is !

      -The Temple of Time ... Where is it ? Not built again.

      -Hero of Men ? What a great title for a time where Mankind was growing up again on the Surface, why not the Hero of Hylians ? Yeah, it make more sense.

      -The Master Sword was sleeping at the end of Skyward Sword, so the Picori Sword was a great substitute sacred sword at the time.

      -If the monster invasion in the Hero of Men War was an attack by the remaining army of Demise taking revenge over their Master death, it has to be near the birth of the Kingdom, not too much after Skyward Sword.

      -I like to believe that the Ocarina of Wind will be later the Ocarina of Time or that the three Oracles presence in MC explain why the three Goddesses were intervening in the Era of Chaos.


      So, that's it.
      It would be great if you response and debate over my Thread, telling me how much I'm right or how much I'm wrong.
      The following of this will be below ! I'm expecting you to participate. :yeppers:
    • I'm not really following the thought process here.

      Nonoctoro wrote:

      -There are some incoherences in the Lore it would correct; for exemple the Goron reunification.
      Rauru had given the Goron Ruby to the Gorons at the Era of Prosperity, but the Gorons were not a unified Tribe between Skyward Sword and Minish Cap, it's during the side Quest in the Goron Cavern with Strage wall kindstones fusion, Were Gorons learn about Team Work, the Goron Tribe reborn. (Carlov's Figurines told us that Gorons once lived on Mount Crenel.)

      In SS, we see a few Gorons wandering the Surface, and don't see anything like Goron City. However, as you say, TMC states that they lived on Mount Crenel, and assuming the latter is not Death Mountain and is thus not explored in SS (which seems like a reasonable bet- why would its name change and then go back again?), that easily accounts for where they were when Rauru gave them the Ruby.

      As for why their numbers are so low by TMC, we have no canon explanation as yet, but my thinking is that it was caused by Volvagia's emergence. We know as per Darunia's son in OoT that Volvagia was a dragon who lived in the distant past and ate Gorons before he was destroyed the first time, which would nicely align with both there being fewer Gorons and the ones who are left abandoning their previous home on Mount Crenel.

      -Did Zelda and Link from Skyward Sword established Hyrule ? Because this order told us it's not. It make sense that it is !

      Link, Zelda, and the Skyloftians who followed them would still be the founders of Hyrule, but just founding the country is only the first step, and the actual scope and boundaries of the kingdom need to be established from there. As an example, the US declared independence from Great Britain in 1776, but the war for independence didn't itself end until 1783, and it took even longer from there to ratify an actual functional constitution and unify the country.

      In the same way, Hyrule was "founded" shortly after SS when the Skyloftians descended and set up shop, but it wasn't until after the Era of Chaos that the kingdom finally stabilized.

      -The Temple of Time ... Where is it ? Not built again.

      The Temple of Time was built over the Sealed Temple, which was itself deep within Faron Woods, after the Era of Chaos. Which leads nicely into...

      -The Master Sword was sleeping at the end of Skyward Sword, so the Picori Sword was a great substitute sacred sword at the time.

      I agree, but doesn't that substitution, along with the Light Force in lieu of the Triforce, make more sense if Rauru had already placed his seal and thus taken these relics out of commission?

      -Hero of Men ? What a great title for a time where Mankind was growing up again on the Surface, why not the Hero of Hylians ? Yeah, it make more sense.

      That title could very easily be referring to how he saved humanity (i.e. "mankind") from the monsters that he locked in the Bound Chest, and given that the Era of Chaos had ended not too long ago, the number of humans on the Surface being relatively low also still works.

      -If the monster invasion in the Hero of Men War was an attack by the remaining army of Demise taking revenge over their Master death, it has to be near the birth of the Kingdom, not too much after Skyward Sword.

      If indeed, but we're not told that these monsters are affiliated with Demise.

      -I like to believe that the Ocarina of Wind will be later the Ocarina of Time

      If that is the case, it could still easily hold true with the current order, with the Royal Family entrusting the Ocarina's protection to the Wind Tribe at some point after the Era of Chaos, before taking it back prior to OoT. (After all, the Wind Tribe had abandoned the thing in Castor Wilds for who knows how long, before giving it to a total stranger so he could fly everywhere- they probably figured it'd be safer in the Castle.)

      And they could just as easily be two wholly different Ocarinas.

      or that the three Oracles presence in MC explain why the three Goddesses were intervening in the Era of Chaos.

      Uh, HH says that the goddesses might be intervening in the Oracle games after ALttP, but they're never credited with doing anything during the Era of Chaos, so the Oracles of TMC don't really factor in regardless.
    • Setras wrote:

      TMC states that they lived on Mount Crenel, and assuming the latter is not Death Mountain and is thus not explored in SS (which seems like a reasonable bet- why would its name change and then go back again?)
      It's clearly the same place. Eldin Volcano was its first name, being the only volcano of the Eldin region.
      Mount Crenel would be the name Hylians given him after they rediscovered the Surface.
      Death Mountain is a name about how dangerous the mountain is now for Hylians, a sort of warning name, this name is now how everyone call it.

      Well, the similarity of how Gorons aren't unified in a tribe in both Games following each other in the Timeline is a bit of a red flag to me, they were living on the Eldin Volcano prior to the Demon invasion, Eldin told us that this mountain wasn't this lava hell it is now but a green valley where Humans and people from the ground lived together.
      it's not the first time Gorons just leave their home to become solitary nomad, just look at Wind Waker.
      I can't disprove your argument here, but if the Goron Hero had vanquished Volvagia, they would be no more danger on the mountain, plus, Darunia is the chief because of his filiation with the Goron Hero, there is some sort of "royal Family" in the Goron Tribe (even if it's more about the merit), I know that the Gorons are good in History, remembering event from the past, like the Dodongos who were dinosaure, but they was no apparent leadership with those Inside the Goron Cavern.

      Setras wrote:

      Link, Zelda, and the Skyloftians who followed them would still be the founders of Hyrule, but just founding the country is only the first step, and the actual scope and boundaries of the kingdom need to be established from there.

      The Abiter's Grounds, assuming it is an historic place of the Era of Chaos, during the fight again Stallord, we can see soldiers, many of them, Inside good looking chainmaille and weapons, why a non existing country would have an army ?
      Also, there is the Royal Familly blason on the entrace.

      How many times there is between the the end of Skyward Sword and the Era of Prosperity ? multiple Hundreds years ? I don't think SS Zelda and Link would be still alive if Hyrule was established at this date.


      Setras wrote:

      The Temple of Time was built over the Sealed Temple, which was itself deep within Faron Woods, after the Era of Chaos. Which leads nicely into...
      Yeah, in the Forest !
      Hyrule Town was built near the Temple of Time, as the previous Town and Castle would be destroyed by the Era of Chaos.


      Setras wrote:

      If indeed, but we're not told that these monsters are affiliated with Demise.

      They are simple low-intelligent sbire, how could they make an army and attack Hyrule without a leader like the Demon King ? Revenge would be a good fuel for them to attack.
      Demise is the creator of Demons, something of a godlike being for them.


      Setras wrote:

      That title could very easily be referring to how he saved humanity (i.e. "mankind") from the monsters that he locked in the Bound Chest, and given that the Era of Chaos had ended not too long ago, the number of humans on the Surface being relatively low also still works.

      I like to compare this to how the inhabitants of Paradis Island think they are what is left of Humanity in Shingeki no kyojin.
      There is more contries in the world with round eared humans that the Hylians didn't know about before, they were cut to everething by the sea of clouds.
      To this point of view, the Hero of Men saved the Humanity.

      If Skyloft people were what is left of humanity, who are those Dark Interllopers then ? Humans ?

      For the Wind tribe ... I like to think they are Skyloftians who were still living on Skyloft (Groose ?) after that the Hylians go on the Surface.
      They are like a Twin tribe with Hylians, explaining why they are said to have good relation with the Royal Familly in many games.

      For the Castor Wilds (Or Tabanta like they are called in Japanese and French (hi !), a name we will find again for Tabantha Frontier in Breath of the Wild, home of the Rito tribe, another Wind tribe ... coincidence ?)
      The ruins are too ancient to be from the Skyloftians/Hylians, they are from an ancient civilisation. I think the tale of the Wind Tribe is a different version of the tale of Skyloft.

      I think Rauru is none other than a member of the Wind Tribe, because of how he look like Gaepora of Skyloft, and that he reborn as a bird, Kaepora Gaepora.
      In Twilight Princess, we learn that the Oocca, in other words, the Wind Tribe, were involved with the construction of the Temple of Time, but Hyrule Historia told us that Rauru build it, so does that mean Rauru is one of them ?
      Using the Ocarina of Wind, a sacred treasure of his people as a key for the Temple of Time they built would make sense.

      Setras wrote:

      Uh, HH says that the goddesses might be intervening in the Oracle games after ALttP, but they're never credited with doing anything during the Era of Chaos, so the Oracles of TMC don't really factor in regardless.

      But ... Why would they've purchased houses in Hyrule Town in the first place ? (Exept Farore because of the bug, sorry, no game, no house. :3nod ) The Minish Festival was finished ... This is suspicious ... I believe they were "investigating" for the Goddesses.


      This all part in the Timeline sound really wrong for me ..... like a smear on a Masterpiece.



    • Speaking in broad terms, I see how your timeline can work and work well with the information given in the games; however, I don't see anything to prove that the HH timeline contradicts itself or any of the games, or even that your own timeline is any better (or any worse) than the HH one. It's a viable alternative, nothing more, nothing less.

      To elaborate on that tentative conclusion, I'll go point-by-point. And apologies if some of my replies are redundant with Setras'. I'll try to keep things interesting.

      Nonoctoro wrote:

      -There are some incoherences in the Lore it would correct; for exemple the Goron reunification.
      Rauru had given the Goron Ruby to the Gorons at the Era of Prosperity, but the Gorons were not a unified Tribe between Skyward Sword and Minish Cap, it's during the side Quest in the Goron Cavern with Strage wall kindstones fusion, Where Gorons learn about Team Work, the Goron Tribe reborn. (Carlov's Figurines told us that Gorons once lived on Mount Crenel.)

      The Gorons don't seem to be a unified tribe in the way that they are by the time OoT comes around, but they may be more united than you give them credit for. The Goron symbol, after which the Goron Ruby is presumably designed, makes an appearance on Gorko's shoulder in SS. The other two Gorons have at least similar marks in the same place,



      In Minish Cap, the second Goron to arrive at the cave says "One of my friends needs help?" The third says "I thought I smelled a buddy!" The sixth says "This must be that Goron cave I've heard about," suggesting that word of this place has spread. Although the Gorons don't have a permanent home, as far as we know, interpersonal bonds still seem to be important to them, uniting them in culture and in purpose. To my mind, that's enough for them to have a political influence and to merit a part in protecting the Triforce.

      Also, are we ever told that Gorons lived on Eldin Volcano? Eldin says something about the people from the ground, but that could easily mean the Mogmas, who are still there. I might just be forgetting something.

      Nonoctoro wrote:

      -Did Zelda and Link from Skyward Sword established Hyrule ? Because this order told us it's not. It make sense that it is !

      I don't think it's ever said that they did. Only that Zelda's descendants eventually became the Royal Family. Being descended from both the Headmaster of the Knight Academy in Skyloft and the reincarnation of their own patron deity, and possibly (emphasis on possibly) also the hero who wielded the Triforce and defeated the ultimate evil, I think they would be held high in esteem in some other way until Hyrule Kingdom was officially established.

      Nonoctoro wrote:

      -The Temple of Time ... Where is it ? Not built again.

      Fair point. There are other ways to rectify that problem, but for the Temple of Time to have not been built yet does make everything easier.

      Nonoctoro wrote:

      -Hero of Men ? What a great title for a time where Mankind was growing up again on the Surface, why not the Hero of Hylians ? Yeah, it make more sense.

      ... I don't follow. Hylians are human, too. The "Hero of Men" title probably arose from saving humanity (especially in contrast to the Minish) regardless of when it happened in the timeline.

      Nonoctoro wrote:

      -The Master Sword was sleeping at the end of Skyward Sword, so the Picori Sword was a great substitute sacred sword at the time.

      Basically what Setras said. It makes sense either way, but it actually makes more sense in HH's version.

      Nonoctoro wrote:

      -If the monster invasion in the Hero of Men War was an attack by the remaining army of Demise taking revenge over their Master death, it has to be near the birth of the Kingdom, not too much after Skyward Sword.

      This is another point I'll give you. That particular sudden attack goes entirely unexplained in HH's timeline. I like to think that Ghirahim survived, spent some time recovering himself and then building an army, and then launched the attack (accounting for the delay), but that's just speculation on my part. Placing it shortly after Skyward Sword is a good answer to that question.

      Nonoctoro wrote:

      -I like to believe that the Ocarina of Wind will be later the Ocarina of Time

      I could go either way on it being the exact same ocarina, but now that you mention it, I actually really like this idea. Obviously, part of the goal of the Temple of Time was that whoever used the Triforce would have the approval of the Gorons, Zoras, Deku Tree, and Hylians. If the Temple was built in a time when the Wind Tribe was still active, it makes sense that they would be included, too, presumably as guardians of the Ocarina of Time/Wind. The Royal Family still has control over the Song of Time and the Temple itself, so they aren't left out. In fact, assuming that the ocarinas are the same and that HH's timeline is correct, it could be that the events of MC are when the Ocarina passes from the Wind Tribe to the Hylians via Link.

      I actually don't see how that helps the timeline argument, though. Either way, the Wind Tribe and the Ocarina of Winds should have been around when the Temple of Time was built, right?

      or that the three Oracles presence in MC explain why the three Goddesses were intervening in the Era of Chaos.

      I assume you mean sealing the Interlopers? It's possible, I guess. The connection between the Oracles and the Goddess is so thin that I tend to be skeptical of any support it gives to any theory.

      So, between your timeline and the HH one, they mostly break even. I think I slightly prefer the HH version just for the sake of having Hyrule slowly rise to power, from a vague people group in the Era of Chaos to one town and a castle in Minish Cap, to a multiracial alliance in OoT. For Hyrule Kingdom to be founded in the very first generation upon return to the Surface doesn't have the same appeal. But that's also the timeline I'm more accustomed to, so I'm probably biased in that regard.

      I won't get into your discussion with Setras for the most part, but I'll ask that you clarify this point:

      Nonoctoro wrote:


      The Abiter's Grounds, assuming it is an historic place of the Era of Chaos,

      What evidence is there for that? I'm guessing the presence of the Mirror of Twilight, but couldn't that have been moved at almost any point in history?
      Goddess of the Sands

      Map of Thyphlo Ruins

      Forest Architects

      If you have Amiibo Tap: Nintendo's Greatest Bits on Wii U, you can reset which games your amiibo unlock by deleting the game and then redownloading it.
    • I might be a little late for responding, sorry !


      Evran_Speer wrote:

      What evidence is there for that? I'm guessing the presence of the Mirror of Twilight, but couldn't that have been moved at almost any point in history?
      This is the only place it fit perfectly, where the Triforce is out.

      Rauru was the Sage of Light since that the Temple of Time was built and it would be stupid to creat another generation of Sages if they were already waiting for one, so, it can't be between the Era of Prosperity and Ocarina of Time, it can't be after too since Ganondorf was executed in this already existent place, it has to be after Skyward Sword because of obvious reasons of no Gerudos in Lanayru Region, the most probable place to fit it's in the Era of Chaos.

      The Ancient Sages were appointed by the Goddesses to watch over the mirror, they said it themself, this is where the sages watched over this Mirror, since they were asked to.
      I don't see how it would need to move somewhere else...


      I know that I shouldn't mention this because I hate much of what this uncanon book said but ...
      Hyrule Encyclopedia says that the Dark Interllopers event happent during the Era of Chaos and I'm totally agree.




      I always was on the official Timeline side since its release, and I feel that my modification would make it even better.

      Hyrule Historia wasn't always right, the Hero's Shade part about how he wasn't remembered as a Hero depsite the first lines in Majora's Mask that tells us the opposite.
      The famous Fire and Spirit medaillon swap ...

      So, that's why I think this part need to change ! (Even if now, they hire writters from outside of Nintendo to wright their books and that they wrought their own version of the Lore.)