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    What do you want to see from the next game's villain?
    • @Vulpes

      If you want Brooklyn Accents in a fantasy game, may I direct you to Azeroth's Goblins?




      WoW also features Trolls with Jamaican accents, Russian Space Goat people (Draenei), and British werewolves. Not giving High Mountain Tauren (Minotaurs with Moose antlers instead of horns) stereotypical Canadian accents was a lost opportunity, IMO.

      Personally, I liked Zelda's semi-British accent. I just with they had a bit of consistency and had given King Rhoan a British accent as well. It's just weird that his daughter has one and he doesn't.


      BotW Zelda in her purple Hylian Tunic, by my husband, DarkSilver.

      "Breath of the Wild: "Zelda's Redemption" Chapter 3 now up!

      After Calamity Ganon's defeat, a devastated Zelda must come to terms with her ruined kingdom, dead friends, and the resentment of the Hero who had saved her, but lost his fiancee. When all hope seems lost, she comes across a legend of a holy relic that can set things right, if she can find the ancient keys to access it. With the help of new friends, and without Link, can Zelda finally become a legend, on her own terms?
    • Canyarion wrote:

      Castigear wrote:

      I’m not sure what you would call the ‘spirit of the hero’ showing up in random people throughout time other than reincarnation. Possession? I prefer the idea that it is an integral part of each person rather than just “inhabiting” the person or whatever.
      Doesn't reincarnation mean you remember stuff from your previous life?
      I felt 'spirit' meant more of a symbolic thing. "Iwata died, but we'll continue making games in his spirit." Or "look at his warrior spirit!"
      These heroes have the spirit of the hero, which is probably a mystical thing, but not necessarily reincarnation. The Hero's Shade would also be hard to fit into a reincarnation explanation? Unless that stuff was the new Link remembering his previous incarnation. But that's not how Nintendo explains it, I think.

      Anyway, that's really off-topic. And I can't imagine this hasn't been figured out on ZU yet, so there's probably a thread somewhere.

      About villains. Do we here all agree that we don't want another one-shot villain like Maud/Malladus/Bellum/Veran/Onox?
      I don't believe so, no. Those who believe in reincarnation, if they are right, obviously don't remember any "previous lives".

      Sig by TruEdge67, Glorious Newbie Overlord
    • There's a hundred different interpretations of reincarnation. The most common one I believe is that the soul is washed clean of the memories of the previous life then born into a new body, usually to right some injustice they couldn't in their first life or else atone for a mistake they made. Often thematically there's a case of a soul being reborn over and over again, making the same mistakes as they are caught in a cycle that they don't know how to break.

      There are versions in which the reborn person does retain memory though. Usually it returns between their fifteenth and twentieth birthdays after all the messy being a child stuff is done.

      Actually I'd kind of like to see any of those villains return, except Maud, that game was terrible. I'm completely open to a one shot villain as long as they are compelling. Calamity Ganon was the very definition of boring. Not least of which because he went down in less than fifteen minutes. (and most of that was because I've never been able to reflect an eye laser and so had to wait for Daruk's protection to charge.)
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • Yea I think the idea of reincarnation is just the same soul being recycled back into the world, regardless of remembering past lives. Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism for example believe in reincarnation but as far as I know not really remembering past lives.

      I’m not a big fan of the idea of one shot villains, and I never really liked Vaati, so I want to see a new franchise villain written well enough to stay for the long haul. I love Ganon but he’s achieved Bowser status in terms of “oh, it’s him again.”
      My philosophy on the timeline now is the same as Winston Churchill’s:

      “It is a mistake to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one Link at a time.”

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Castigear ().

    • In which case they should pull a Paper Mario, have an actually intimidating villain that Ganondorf is comedically always one step behind.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • The strength with a "one-spot-villain" is that he/she isn't limited to previous or future events, and it is possible to take him/her seriously since he/she hasn't made a fool of him/herself in the past or in the future. Ganondorfs story with the king has already been done in OoT, and we already know "the deal" about him (the curse), so it is very limited in that regard. Sure he can be reincarnated all over again, but people of Hyrule should remember him regardless (and yeah of course his appearance will be very similar), and at this point it just gets ridiculous.

      No, give me a new very good developed villain unrelated to Ganon or Demise, from finish to end (almost at least) with a bit deeper motivation than just "evil", "corruption", "greed", or "curse".
    • TriforceHolder wrote:

      In which case they should pull a Paper Mario, have an actually intimidating villain that Ganondorf is comedically always one step behind.
      Bowser works for comedy, Ganondorf does certainly not. I can however see a title where he is present, but gets pushed aside by a stronger villain. And as I have said before, it would be cool if Ganondorf had an inner struggle with his curse, and even would be able to overcome it. I like the idea of an anti-hero Ganondorf, and at the same time we could get rid of the stupid curse while we are at it.
    • I love how ALBW's villain cast does a lot of the things mentioned above to some degree.

      If we ARE gonna go on with talking about the "curse" of Demise as a plot point, my fave idea was the antagonist is a man who knows about the cycle of the curse and wishes to end it by stopping the goddess from reincarnating.
      By ending the Royal Family he hopes to end the shadow that haunts it and always carries destruction with it.

      He has his own army with unique captains with their own reasons for taking over Hyrule; one thing I love is the idea of bosses that all have their own personality and motivations.

      In the end, he causes such destruction in his quest and resorts to such drastic measures that he finds out he has become the thing he sought to destroy.
    • Well, consider this:
      • The Royal Family of Hyrule is the most prominent faction, and essentially the center around which all clans revolve.
      • Whenever they're attacked in whatever way, all of the country is dragged into the crossfire.
      • Literally Satan has guaranteed this devastation for millennia of generations now because he specifically haunts Zelda.
      And to what end does it serve to have a Royal Family? What good is the Goddess for the land? Sure, she can seal evil, but that very same evil is only there because of her.

      But without a Royal Family, the Blood of the Goddess runs dry, and the curse, fulfilled, shall no longer rain destruction over Hyrule.

      The motivation of the antagonist is BETTER when it's slightly off; otherwise, the player may agree and that'll damage the protagonist motivation retroactively in every previous Zelda game.
    • gamtos wrote:

      I love how ALBW's villain cast does a lot of the things mentioned above to some degree.

      If we ARE gonna go on with talking about the "curse" of Demise as a plot point, my fave idea was the antagonist is a man who knows about the cycle of the curse and wishes to end it by stopping the goddess from reincarnating.
      By ending the Royal Family he hopes to end the shadow that haunts it and always carries destruction with it.

      He has his own army with unique captains with their own reasons for taking over Hyrule; one thing I love is the idea of bosses that all have their own personality and motivations.

      In the end, he causes such destruction in his quest and resorts to such drastic measures that he finds out he has become the thing he sought to destroy.
      That would be a cool idea to have a character to try and stop Link, Zelda, and Ganon from reincarnating. But I don't think Demise caused the cycle of reincarnation, it might've been them being bound by the triforce.
    • No Hylia caused the cycle but Demise cursed it. His malice is set to incarnate in direct response to the presence of one possessing the Spirit of the Hero and one possessing the Blood of the Goddess being alive in the same time frame. The Spirit of the Hero is too abstract to reliably be able to stop but if the line that passes on the Blood of the Goddess were to be ended the curse would have nothing to latch onto and therefore end.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • MVS wrote:

      Ganondorfs story with the king has already been done in OoT, and we already know "the deal" about him (the curse), so it is very limited in that regard. Sure he can be reincarnated all over again, but people of Hyrule should remember him regardless (and yeah of course his appearance will be very similar), and at this point it just gets ridiculous.
      Good point. It reminds me of why I think killing off Captain America and Iron Man is a good idea.

      Both characters have had all their stories told. Their origin, fall, rise, being a leader, getting into conflicts, training the new generation. How long can Captain America and Iron Man stay fresh?
      So I say: let them go out with a bang. Give them a worthy death and let us remember their legacy, before we get tired of them.

      Same thing with Ganon(dorf), I suppose. We've seen his origins, rise to power, treachery, escaping imprisonment, fighting for his people, merging with another villain, becoming so corrupted that he can barely talk... and then becoming some prime evil. What story is there left to tell? Maybe it is time for something new.
      100% | Finished | Now playing:
      TLoZ | 2nd Q | TAoL | ALttP | LA | LA DX | OoT | OoT MQ | MM | OoA | OoS | ALttP (GBA) | FS | TWW | FSA | TMC | TP | LCT | PH | ST | OoT 3D | FS AE | SS | ALBW | MM 3D | TFH | TP HD | BotW
    • Ganon did go out, though. In BotW. It may seem anti-climactic, but to me its the perfect culmination of a once Gerudo King turned Demon who has gradually degraded into a shell of his former self.
      The Twilight Realm was basically wizard Australia where every naughty banished person was transformed into some sort of harmless albino penguins.
      ~ Gamtos

      WW is Nintendo's Up, basically. Link is Russell, Tetra is Doug, and uh, I guess maybe Tingle is Kevin?

      ~ Gregarious Tree
    • But we've seen that story so many times. How often have we killed Ganon now? Let's see, at the time these all felt like real deaths, and most or all of them involved a Ganon who had degraded into a mere demon*:

      1. Legend of Zelda
      2. A Link To the Past
      3. The Oracles (linked game)
      4. Four Swords Adventures
      5. Twilight Princess
      6. A Link Between Worlds
      7. Breath of the Wild

      Also, a Miyamoto quote:
      “But the moment I say Yoshi lays eggs so Yoshi must be a girl, they'll say, "Then Yoshi's voice needs to sound more like a girl's!" But I want to make video games without having to worry about such background info. Take the animated series Popeye, for example. In old cartoons like those, the roles of the characters were different every time. Even though the setting was different each time, the characters you knew and loved would come out and perform. Well, the Mario games are set up like that. It would be much easier if we could use any setting in The Legend of Zelda while preserving the essential relationship between Link, Ganon and Zelda.”

      Miyamoto himself doesn't care about continuity, only retelling the story of Link, Zelda, and Ganon over an over again. He's no longer the primary producer or director of the Zelda series, but his philosophy still carries a lot of weight.
      Pronouns: He/Him

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Max N. ().

    • Thematically maybe but that was one damn uninvolved final boss. Not made much better by how easily he went down.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • lord-of-shadow wrote:

      But we've seen that story so many times. How often have we killed Ganon now? Let's see, at the time these all felt like real deaths, and most or all of them involved a Ganon who had degraded into a mere demon*:

      1. Legend of Zelda
      2. A Link To the Past
      3. The Oracles (linked game)
      4. Four Swords Adventures
      5. Twilight Princess
      6. A Link Between Worlds
      7. Breath of the Wild

      Also, a Miyamoto quote:
      “But the moment I say Yoshi lays eggs so Yoshi must be a girl, they'll say, "Then Yoshi's voice needs to sound more like a girl's!" But I want to make video games without having to worry about such background info. Take the animated series Popeye, for example. In old cartoons like those, the roles of the characters were different every time. Even though the setting was different each time, the characters you knew and loved would come out and perform. Well, the Mario games are set up like that. It would be much easier if we could use any setting in The Legend of Zelda while preserving the essential relationship between Link, Ganon and Zelda.”

      Miyamoto himself doesn't care about continuity, only retelling the story of Link, Zelda, and Ganon over an over again. He's no longer the primary producer or director of the Zelda series, but his philosophy still carries a lot of weight.
      Miyamoto needs to go back to being the primary producer of Zelda games. They're getting weaker without him now.:(
    • I want Koizumi in charge of Zelda games, personally.
      When the gods drave me forth to toil and assailed me with thirst and beat me down with hunger, then I prayed to the gods. When the gods smote the cities wherein I dwelt, and when Their anger scorched me and Their eyes burned, then did I praise the gods and offer sacrifice. But when I came again to my green land and found that all was gone, and the old mysterious haunts wherein I prayed as a child were gone, and when the gods tore up the dust and even the spider's web from the last remembered nook, then did I curse the gods, speaking it to Their faces, saying:—

      "Gods of my prayers! Gods of my sacrifice! because Ye have forgotten the sacred places of my childhood, and they have therefore ceased to be, yet may I not forget. Because Ye have done this thing, Ye shall see cold altars and shall lack both my fear and praise. I shall not wince at Your lightnings, nor be awed when Ye go by."

      Time and the Gods
    • No actually it’s the other guy that we need back. I don’t remember his name but he got reassigned after TP. He’s responsible for all of the inivative and revolutionary Zelda stuff that you really remember. Majora’s mask was all him while Myamoto was busy trying to get Ura Zelda off the ground. The storyline for LA this guy snuck in under Myamoto’s nose and against his wishes. Skyward Sword was the Zelda that Myianoto makes when left entirely to his own devices. We don’t need that again.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.