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    What do you want to see from the next game's villain?
    • If you are referring to the next big Zelda 3D title on the Switch? Then we pretty much already know what kind of villain we will get (as always).

      1. Ganon
      2. Ganondorf
      3. Another tightly Ganon-related character (like Demise)

      Unless we will get a "sidegame" like Majora's Mask, but I really don't think so, so I rule that out. I don't know why, it just felt like Majora's Mask was one-time-thing where Aonuma was excited to put out a second 3D Zelda out quicker. We already have 6 "true" 3D-titles now, and Aonuma is all in on the "open air"-track... which is a kind of design that in nature will take longer time. And after all praise (including that Game Awards-GotY-prize) he will probably try to overcome himself by making an even better title with the "open air"-design. That is what I think.

      Or if you are referring to the next minor 2Dish title, which probably is the next game on the Switch between BotW and the next bigger title. Then I totally expect some new villain, or a returning villain like Vaati. But there is no way we will see Vaati or another non-Ganon related villain in a bigger and ambitious title. At least not with Aonuma.

      Out of the three alternatives I listed above, I really prefer to see Ganondorf. It was a looooong time since last (2006) and I really miss a Ganondorf that is present right from the start (like in Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker). No more Twilight Princess-BS thanks.

      I also think a return of Ganondorf is very likely, since last time we saw him was in 2006, they used Ganon in BotW, and Demise was pretty much one-time-thing. Now it is time for the Gerudo King to get some time in the spotlight. With full voice acting and a lot of cutscenes featuring him. I want way more backstory to him than usual, and I want him to be an actual person and not just "the evil king". Wind Waker came very close to this, and I want to see more of this. Perhaps that he at least partly tries to fight his curse from within and has an identity crisis or something like that. In other words... I don't want him just to "chill out" in his awesome castle of darkness... but to be more present throughout the game. And that doesn't need to mean him showing up as much as Ghirahim did, but just in general. Flashbacks or cutscenes with him with Link absent maybe.

      Ganon as a monster/pig/boar is sooooooo boring by now. It would really suck if he will be like that in the next game as well.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by MVS ().

    • To quote from an earlier post of mine:


      Tuf Pic wrote:

      !!

      EDIT: Wasn't able to add this last night on my Android Tablet, so: let me try again to add it to this post, both in URL format, & trying to fix up the quote tags:


      Tuf Pic wrote:

      Tuf Pic wrote:

      ...Since you have brought up the (very poorly-done, in my honest opinion), OOX Linked Ending, well:

      Wall of text:
      Display Spoiler

      While not specifically on the same wavelength, here are a series of quotes from myself taken from the Broadcast Satellite/Satellaview, ("BS", for short), Zelda Homepage Forums:

      Tuf Pic wrote:

      Tuf Pic wrote:

      Also, not sure if anyone responded to this youtube video when I first posted it, but, just to be sure:It gives good reasons why there SHOULD BE AN EXPANDED UNIVERSE FOR ZELDA...Also, Serkol, I seem to recall, from reading a certain post on the Zelda Universe Forums, that in Hyrule Historia, it says that specifically gets defeated by THE GERUDO KING HIMSELF, for the Downfall Timeline to get created!!Which means that Twinrova's quote saying:

      Twinrova)
      [table wrote:


      [tr]
      [td]I'll come back to haunt you!![/td]
      [/tr]
      [/table]
      [/t[/most certainly IS evidence for Ocarina of Time, & Oracles Link to be the same, as well as others...& I know you don't want me to keep saying this, but AOL would have been the PERFECT chance for Twinrova to kidnap Link, & the male Hero of Light, & for the girls to rescue the boys, because, look @ the way they, (the Gerudo), treat men/boys in Ocarina of Time, (I believe that 1 of the imprisoned carpenters said it best, when he said something along the lines of "They threw us into prison, JUST BECAUSE WE'RE MEN!!), & demonic witches SHOULD KIDNAP BOYS, because, that's the way it is in a lot of fairytales, (arguably the majority), also, the male villains in Zelda, (Vire, Vaati, Ghiriam, Ganon[dorf], & Agahnim), almost without exception kidnap FEMALES, so why should we follow the same old cliches when it comes to female villains, although, granted, Twinrova DO kidnap Nabooru, but that should NOT HAPPEN AS OFTEN AS THEY SHOULD VICTIMIZE BOYS!! Also, they even TALK ABOUT OFFERING HIM AS A SACRIFICE!!WHO BETTER?! & maybe if they were to do that in a remake of Zelda 2, then maybe sacrificing Farore in Oracles wouldn't be so bad, although an even BETTER idea would be to let players CHOOSE who Twinrova kidnaps, instead of forcing an ending down our throats that some of us may HATE, by having a crucial choice earlier on, &, depending on our choice, either Zelda, (*shudders*), Farore, or Link could be sacrificed, much in the same way that they did with Ricky, Moosh, & Dimitri...That would probably make EVERYBODY LIKE ORACLES TO THE MAXIMUM, (INCLUDING ME)!!Here's how I think the current Zelda + the female Hero of Light could rescue the male heroes in an Adventure of Link remake:Zelda could be the 1 to tell the heroes about the ancient slumbering Zelda, & Impa could have her own town, (where she would teach the SHADOW SPELL, which would let you turn into a shadow, & avoid most/many enemies, which would remove a lot of headache about the game, anyways, also makes more sense in terms of Ocarina of Time), & the male heroes would fight in the beginning, & later get kidnapped, (perhaps several times?!), by Twinrova, (or at least with their help), @ which point the player would switch to the heroine's perspective(s), & would try to prevent the boys from being sacrificed (time limit, perhaps?!)...& then when the heroines confront the Sorceress Sisters, they would defeat them, rescue the boys, BUT, Twinrova would escape, like Agahnim, & vow to return, & then open up a portal to the Dark Realm, & make the pact with Veran & Onox!!Sound good to you?!Wow, that was a mouthful!!

      [QUOTE=Duke Serkol,Feb 18 2013, 12:47 AM]Not if there isn't a solid reason for the differences. If the chosen vessel of Ganon was determined by something completely unrelated it would be really random and an example of poor storytelling.And that's not to mention the effect multiple endings have in an ongoing series. Do the authors arbitrarily decide which one actually happened for reference in future games? (This usually works if the endings are in various degrees of accomplishment for the hero from worse to best, but obviously that's not what you have in mind here)Do they restrict themselves to being vague about it, possibly creating narrative obstacles to future titles?You could say, well let's just have them be different timeline branches. Groovy. Imagine that each new installment in the series did that. Try and multiply the total number of Zelda games by three. That's how many timelines we'd have by now, most of which left completely unexplored.So yeah, query: Does it sound good?Response: No.
      zeldauniverse.net/forums/User/5338955-Tuf-Pic/#wall

      StainedSigilum wrote:

      Wow, that brings back memories, thought you were over the whole sacrificing Zelda factor, although sacrificing Farore is a different approach this time around, but a welcomed one. It would make more sense if they sacrificed all three Oracles to ressurect Ganon. One would think the combined powers of the Oracles would far supercede that of the royal blood of Zelda. Then again, Nayru could have just been used to bring Ganon back from before his demise. The story's got some serious gaps.

      Wouldn't naming the 3 flames something like the following...

      DESTRUCTION,

      (Can't argue with this, seeing as destruction is a negative outcome/attribute of POWER),

      Ignorance/Deception/Deceit,

      (Here's where we start running into MAJOR problems, as "sorrow" has very little to do with the Goddess Nayru, & Ignorance, Deception, or Deceit would work just as well, considering that Veran was DECEIVING THE QUEEN, & THE PEOPLE OF LABRYNNA, into building the Black Tower, & turning the common folk against Nayru, respectively, so it actually fits into the plot of Oracle of Ages rather well),

      Terror/Fear/Dread,

      (Twinrova could just FRIGHTEN THE PEOPLE INTO REVIVING GANON, now couldn't they?! That would work equally as well as despair, if not BETTER!! :P They could also attempt to SUMMON THE TRIFORCE, & do the reverse of what did @ the end of A Link to the Past, i.e. they could wish away all of the GOOD that the heroines/heroes did, in addition to reviving the Demon King?!),

      make more sense?!

      EDIT: Thus, Farore or Link WOULD BE BETTER CHOICES!!
      ,
      [QUOTE=Tuf Pic,Feb 20th, 2013, 01:08 AM][QUOTE=Duke Serkol,Feb 19 2013, 04:38 PM]Yeah, I myself have had the same thoughts you expressed in this last post concerning the flames.Obviously, when the plan was to have three games, the purple flame would instead have been green, yes. Odds are though that at the end of the third game, Zelda would still have been kidnapped to be used as a vessel for Ganon's revival since otherwise she would have had nothing to do throughout the entire thing.Rather what I often wonder about is... if the villains of Oracles represent the twisting of the three virtues of the Goddesses, with Onox being all destructive power and Veran being a deceiver... what would the third villain have acted like? Would he have been brash and unpredictable? Or focused on striking fear into the populace?


      Ah well, at least we're beginning to see eye-to-eye on this matter!! ;)

      But I still assert that Twinrova should AT LEAST sacrifice the male heroes in a version of AOL... :D (Just look @ the way the Gerudo tend to treat most males, aside from Ganondorf, in Ocarina Of Time, for starters)...

      Ichiro wrote:

      Did you come here to save me? Oh, that's just swell! I'm Ichiro the carpenter.
      We were really interested in joining their all-female group, but they locked us
      up like this just because we're men! We don't care about the Gerudo anymore!
      They're so rude!
      Three of my fellows have also been captured, so please help them escape, too!

      & I actually think letting the players choose a linked ending would be A GOOD THING!!& couldn't it have been a female villain, even back then?!
      & if I had to guess, I'd say that they would be trying to strike FEAR INTO PEOPLE'S HEARTS, rather than DESPAIR!!

      Because that would more closely mirror the Triforce's virtues, IN REVERSE!!

      & perhaps Zelda could have another role, (maybe something like in the manga, where she telepathically contacts Link fighting Ganon)?!

      & I hardly see how Zelda would have been kidnapped in the scenario we are discussing, because, SHE DOES NOT CORRESPOND TO THE GODDESS, FARORE, OR HER COLOR, OR FOR THAT MATTER, HER ATTRIBUTE!!
      ,
      ...Forgot to post this quote...

      Twinrova wrote:

      Look at that stupid kid! He came on his own to offer himself as a sacrifice to
      the great Ganondorf...

      Seriously... WHO BETTER to kidnap ?!Not only do at least some of the Gerudo tended to treat almost all most men/boys with scorn, BUT TWINROVA even TALK ABOUT OFFERING LINK AS A SACRIFICE...


      Besides which, evil witches IN GENERAL, (& other female villains), usually victimize YOUNG MALES IN MYTHOLOGY/FOLKLORE/FAIRY TALES... Also, the male villains in Zelda ALWAYS kidnap females, (even in Colin's case, STILL ILIA GOT KIDNAPPED)...

      & I actually LIKED Zelda's fighting style, in Super Smash Bros. Melee!! :P

      Not to mention, even in AOL, neither the sleeping Zelda, nor the 1 from (BS)LOZ got sacrificed: LINK WAS, &, (if a sequel to the original BS Zelda were to eventually be made) also possibly the male Hero of Light...

      Also, about my idea to split the Linked Ending into 3 parts, it was inspired by
      the concept of choosing either Ricky, Moosh, or Dimitri... That was 1 aspect of OOX I actually DID like...

      & there would probably be a multitude of Zelda timelines irregardless, because, Link could die in any game, so there would be more than 1 "downfall timeline"...

      Besides which, do you think that choosing either Ricky, Moosh, or Dimitri, depending on choices made earlier in either game, was an example of "bad storytelling"?!
      ,

      Duke Serkol wrote:

      Me.Though I'm starting to get the feeling Nintendo is deliberately ignoring ALttP (and Oracles) to spite me... j/k.


      Canayarion wrote:

      Miles wrote:

      Here's hoping for Oracles representation down the line. And Four Swords + Minish Cap!
      Apparently Capcom and Koei-Tecmo have some terribly bad blood between them. KT recently even sued Capcom for a feature in Monster Hunter that KT had patented or something. And they've been rivals for long before that.
      Chances are small they're willing to take Capcom-developed characters and turn those into characters for their game. It's sad, really. :( I would have loved seeing the Oracles, Vaati, Veran, Onox etc. in HW.

      Anyway, I got the 3DS game a few days ago and I decided to try the new characters and play the new story levels. It sucks that I first have to go through the old content.

      I sold my Wii U DLC code for €12, which is the same price Nintendo will charge this summer. This means I have a pretty cheap 3DS game. :)



      Hope we get to @least get to see TWINROVA!!


      Especially if there's @least an option for them to victimize
      EDIT: Source for the above quote:

      The 2'nd page of this thread!!

      logicalpencils wrote:

      Uuuuuuuuh, wall of text, much?

      What's your idea?

      Tuf Pic wrote:

      ...Since you have brought up the (very poorly-done, in my honest opinion), OOX Linked Ending, well:

      Wall of text:
      Display Spoiler

      While not specifically on the same wavelength, here are a series of quotes from myself taken from the Broadcast Satellite/Satellaview, ("BS", for short), Zelda Homepage Forums:

      Tuf Pic wrote:

      Tuf Pic wrote:

      Also, not sure if anyone responded to this youtube video when I first posted it, but, just to be sure:It gives good reasons why there SHOULD BE AN EXPANDED UNIVERSE FOR ZELDA...Also, Serkol, I seem to recall, from reading a certain post on the Zelda Universe Forums, that in Hyrule Historia, it says that specifically gets defeated by THE GERUDO KING HIMSELF, for the Downfall Timeline to get created!!Which means that Twinrova's quote saying:

      Twinrova)
      [table wrote:


      [tr]
      [td]I'll come back to haunt you!![/td]
      [/tr]
      [/table]
      [/t[/most certainly IS evidence for Ocarina of Time, & Oracles Link to be the same, as well as others...& I know you don't want me to keep saying this, but AOL would have been the PERFECT chance for Twinrova to kidnap Link, & the male Hero of Light, & for the girls to rescue the boys, because, look @ the way they, (the Gerudo), treat men/boys in Ocarina of Time, (I believe that 1 of the imprisoned carpenters said it best, when he said something along the lines of "They threw us into prison, JUST BECAUSE WE'REMEN!!), & demonic witches SHOULD KIDNAP BOYS, because, that's the way it is in a lot of fairytales, (arguably the majority), also, the male villains in Zelda, (Vire, Vaati, Ghiriam, Ganon[dorf], & Agahnim), almost without exception kidnap FEMALES, so why should we follow the same old cliches when it comes to female villains, although, granted, Twinrova DO kidnap Nabooru, but that should NOT HAPPEN AS OFTEN AS THEY SHOULD VICTIMIZE BOYS!! Also, they even TALK ABOUT OFFERING HIM AS A SACRIFICE!!WHO BETTER?! & maybe if they were to do that in a remake of Zelda 2, then maybe sacrificing Farore in Oracles wouldn't be so bad, although an even BETTER idea would be to let players CHOOSE who Twinrova kidnaps, instead of forcing an ending down our throats that some of us may HATE, by having a crucial choice earlier on, &, depending on our choice, either Zelda, (*shudders*), Farore, or Link could be sacrificed, much in the same way that they did with Ricky, Moosh, & Dimitri...That would probably make EVERYBODY LIKE ORACLES TO THE MAXIMUM, (INCLUDING ME)!!Here's how I think the current Zelda + the female Hero of Light could rescue the male heroes in an Adventure of Link remake:Zelda could be the 1 to tell the heroes about the ancient slumbering Zelda, & Impa could have her own town, (where she would teach the SHADOW SPELL, which would let you turn into a shadow, & avoid most/many enemies, which would remove a lot of headache about the game, anyways, also makes more sense in terms of Ocarina of Time), & the male heroes would fight in the beginning, & later get kidnapped, (perhaps several times?!), by Twinrova, (or at least with their help), @ which point the player would switch to the heroine's perspective(s), & would try to prevent the boys from being sacrificed (time limit, perhaps?!)...& then when the heroines confront the Sorceress Sisters, they would defeat them, rescue the boys, BUT, Twinrova would escape, like Agahnim, & vow to return, & then open up a portal to the Dark Realm, & make the pact with Veran & Onox!!Sound good to you?!Wow, that was a mouthful!!

      [QUOTE=Duke Serkol,Feb 18 2013, 12:47 AM]Not if there isn't a solid reason for the differences. If the chosen vessel of Ganon was determined by something completely unrelated it would be really random and an example of poor storytelling.And that's not to mention the effect multiple endings have in an ongoing series. Do the authors arbitrarily decide which one actually happened for reference in future games? (This usually works if the endings are in various degrees of accomplishment for the hero from worse to best, but obviously that's not what you have in mind here)Do they restrict themselves to being vague about it, possibly creating narrative obstacles to future titles?You could say, well let's just have them be different timeline branches. Groovy. Imagine that each new installment in the series did that. Try and multiply the total number of Zelda games by three. That's how many timelines we'd have by now, most of which left completely unexplored.So yeah, query: Does it sound good?Response: No.
      zeldauniverse.net/forums/User/5338955-Tuf-Pic/#wall

      StainedSigilum wrote:

      Wow, that brings back memories, thought you were over the whole sacrificing Zelda factor, although sacrificing Farore is a different approach this time around, but a welcomed one. It would make more sense if they sacrificed all three Oracles to ressurect Ganon. One would think the combined powers of the Oracles would far supercede that of the royal blood of Zelda. Then again, Nayru could have just been used to bring Ganon back from before his demise. The story's got some serious gaps.

      Wouldn't naming the 3 flames something like the following...

      DESTRUCTION,

      (Can't argue with this, seeing as destruction is a negative outcome/attribute of POWER),

      Ignorance/Deception/Deceit,

      (Here's where we start running into MAJOR problems, as "sorrow" has very little to do with the Goddess Nayru, & Ignorance, Deception, or Deceit would work just as well, considering that Veran was DECEIVING THE QUEEN, & THE PEOPLE OF LABRYNNA, into building the Black Tower, & turning the common folk against Nayru, respectively, so it actually fits into the plot of Oracle of Ages rather well),

      Terror/Fear/Dread,

      (Twinrova could just FRIGHTEN THE PEOPLE INTO REVIVING GANON, now couldn't they?! That would work equally as well as despair, if not BETTER!! :P They could also attempt to SUMMON THE TRIFORCE, & do the reverse of what did @ the end of A Link to the Past, i.e. they could wish away all of the GOOD that the heroines/heroes did, in addition to reviving the Demon King?!),

      make more sense?!

      EDIT: Thus, Farore or Link WOULD BE BETTER CHOICES!!
      ,
      [QUOTE=Tuf Pic,Feb 20th, 2013, 01:08 AM][QUOTE=Duke Serkol,Feb 19 2013, 04:38 PM]Yeah, I myself have had the same thoughts you expressed in this last post concerning the flames.Obviously, when the plan was to have three games, the purple flame would instead have been green, yes. Odds are though that at the end of the third game, Zelda would still have been kidnapped to be used as a vessel for Ganon's revival since otherwise she would have had nothing to do throughout the entire thing.Rather what I often wonder about is... if the villains of Oracles represent the twisting of the three virtues of the Goddesses, with Onox being all destructive power and Veran being a deceiver... what would the third villain have acted like? Would he have been brash and unpredictable? Or focused on striking fear into the populace?


      Ah well, at least we're beginning to see eye-to-eye on this matter!! ;)

      But I still assert that Twinrova should AT LEAST sacrifice the male heroes in a version of AOL... :D (Just look @ the way the Gerudo tend to treat most males, aside from Ganondorf, in Ocarina Of Time, for starters)...

      Ichiro wrote:

      Did you come here to save me? Oh, that's just swell! I'm Ichiro the carpenter.
      We were really interested in joining their all-female group, but they locked us
      up like this just because we're men! We don't care about the Gerudo anymore!
      They're so rude!
      Three of my fellows have also been captured, so please help them escape, too!

      & I actually think letting the players choose a linked ending would be A GOOD THING!!& couldn't it have been a female villain, even back then?!
      & if I had to guess, I'd say that they would be trying to strike FEAR INTO PEOPLE'S HEARTS, rather than DESPAIR!!

      Because that would more closely mirror the Triforce's virtues, IN REVERSE!!

      & perhaps Zelda could have another role, (maybe something like in the manga, where she telepathically contacts Link fighting Ganon)?!

      & I hardly see how Zelda would have been kidnapped in the scenario we are discussing, because, SHE DOES NOT CORRESPOND TO THE GODDESS, FARORE, OR HER COLOR, OR FOR THAT MATTER, HER ATTRIBUTE!!
      ,
      ...Forgot to post this quote...

      Twinrova wrote:

      Look at that stupid kid! He came on his own to offer himself as a sacrifice to
      the great Ganondorf...

      Seriously... WHO BETTER to kidnap ?!Not only do at least some of the Gerudo tended to treat almost all most men/boys with scorn, BUT TWINROVA even TALK ABOUT OFFERING LINK AS A SACRIFICE...


      Besides which, evil witches IN GENERAL, (& other female villains), usually victimize YOUNG MALES IN MYTHOLOGY/FOLKLORE/FAIRY TALES... Also, the male villains in Zelda ALWAYS kidnap females, (even in Colin's case, STILL ILIA GOT KIDNAPPED)...

      & I actually LIKED Zelda's fighting style, in Super Smash Bros. Melee!! :P

      Not to mention, even in AOL, neither the sleeping Zelda, nor the 1 from (BS)LOZ got sacrificed: LINK WAS, &, (if a sequel to the original BS Zelda were to eventually be made) also possibly the male Hero of Light...

      Also, about my idea to split the Linked Ending into 3 parts, it was inspired by
      the concept of choosing either Ricky, Moosh, or Dimitri... That was 1 aspect of OOX I actually DID like...

      & there would probably be a multitude of Zelda timelines irregardless, because, Link could die in any game, so there would be more than 1 "downfall timeline"...

      Besides which, do you think that choosing either Ricky, Moosh, or Dimitri, depending on choices made earlier in either game, was an example of "bad storytelling"?!
      ,

      Duke Serkol wrote:

      Me.Though I'm starting to get the feeling Nintendo is deliberately ignoring ALttP (and Oracles) to spite me... j/k.


      Canayarion wrote:

      Miles wrote:

      Here's hoping for Oracles representation down the line. And Four Swords + Minish Cap!
      Apparently Capcom and Koei-Tecmo have some terribly bad blood between them. KT recently even sued Capcom for a feature in Monster Hunter that KT had patented or something. And they've been rivals for long before that.
      Chances are small they're willing to take Capcom-developed characters and turn those into characters for their game. It's sad, really. :( I would have loved seeing the Oracles, Vaati, Veran, Onox etc. in HW.

      Anyway, I got the 3DS game a few days ago and I decided to try the new characters and play the new story levels. It sucks that I first have to go through the old content.

      I sold my Wii U DLC code for €12, which is the same price Nintendo will charge this summer. This means I have a pretty cheap 3DS game. :)



      Hope we get to @least get to see TWINROVA!!


      Especially if there's @least an option for them to victimize
      EDIT: Source for the above quote:

      The 2'nd page of this thread!!

      logicalpencils wrote:

      Uuuuuuuuh, wall of text, much?

      What's your idea?

      ,


      Duke Serkol wrote:

      Ah, so that's why.Well, ALttP and Agahnim are not Capcom so crossing my fingers still for him to show up in some capacity (maybe a Wizzro costume in the ALBW expansion).

      Tuf Pic wrote:

      Hope we get to @least get to see TWINROVA!!Especially if there's @least an option for them to victimize


      I'm starting to think that wish will some day end up etched out onto your tombstone ("Here rests Tuf Pic - Twinrova should have victimized Link!").

      Might be worth it just to confuse the heck out of graveyard visitors.

      1) Glad I could help explain why!!

      ...&...


      2) ...Since it was brought up, well...


      I'm not so sure if I'll have an actual TOMBSTONE, when I pass on into another plane-of-existence, from this 1, (possibly I might get CREMATED?!), & I think that they should still do a remake of OOX & AOL, in addition to a sequel to Link's Awakening!!


      & before you ask which timeline branch the sequel to LADX would take place on, (just incase you don't recall, I mentioned the last time this was brought up on these forums, that they could have done 3 seperate Linked Endings depending on choices made by the player(s) of either/both linkable games, beforehand, much in the same way that they did with the Strange Flutes, which would almost assuredly take place on 3 seperate timelines, anyhow, because you can only have 1 Strange Flute, & hence 1 Pet per-game file, & they would have to, out of necessity take place on different timeline branches anyhow, which was an idea I DID LIKE IN OOX, & depending on which route was taken, either: 1) as much as I loathe this option, Zelda, who has a connection to the
      Display Spoiler
      Goddess Hylia,
      would stay the victim,
      2) Farore, or 3) who both have a connection with the color GREEN would be the victim,), all 3 timelines could be drawn into the new Dreamworld via the
      Display Spoiler
      Windfish's knowledge of multiple worlds/universes/Timelines/Realms/Realities/Dimensions!!



      I hope that makes sense, despite it being quite the long-winded explanation!!


      & Pokemon as well, & now that I've brought that up, I might as well include a URL to another thread I made on these forums:


      http://z9.invisionfree.com/bszelda/index.p...wtopic=1005&hl=


      Just had to get that out there!!

      ,


      ...&...


      Duke Serkol wrote:

      Tuf Pic wrote:

      ...Since it was brought up, well...

      Oh yeah... your grievances with OoX were totally "brought up" coincidentally.
      You most certainly didn't shove them into yet another unrelated thread once again :lol:

      Tuf Pic wrote:

      I'm not so sure if I'll have an actual TOMBSTONE, when I pass on into another plane-of-existence, from this 1, (possibly I might get CREMATED?!), [/QUOTÈ]

      That goes for me too actually. Not a big fan of worms.

      Tuf Pic wrote:

      I hope that makes sense, despite it being quite the long-winded explanation!!
      Let's put it this way: it's just about the usual amount of sense we've come to expect from you ;)
      1) I thought I'd bring it up since the Oracle games were brought into this discussion!!That's why!!
      & I'd @least like to see more game('s) with TWINROVA particularily if they kidnapped/sacrificed (they really seem like the best Zelda villains to do so, @LEAST thus-far, although that still wouldn't placate the fans who wanted FARORE to be the victim, (which, I must admit, has it's own advantages), which is a major reason I suggested the Triple-Linked-Ending idea, & I even recall @1 of the formerly imprisoned carpenters saying something to the effect that the old witches, (i.e. the Hyrulean Koume & Kotake), were far more frightening to them than the regular Gerudo, which seems to heavily imply that Ganondorf's surrogate mothers treat most men/boys, (aside from the Demon King himself, for obvious reasons), WORSE than the regular Gerudo, so yes, they do very much seem to be the perfect villainous characters in Hyrule to kidnap him, aside from everything else I mentioned the last time around)!!

      2) ...Not quite sure which option I'll choose, @this point, but I'm heavily leaning towards cremation...

      ...&...

      3) THANKS!! !!
      Source-threads for the above quotes:

      BS Zelda -> Storyline section Final update,


      ...&...


      BS Zelda -> Hyrule Warriors!!!!


      In other words, I would very much like to see an expanded remake of OOX, (ESPECIALLY if it fixes the horribly 1-sided Linked Ending), in addition to a SEQUEL TO LADX, as well as an expanded remake of AOL, that includes the Heroine/Hero of Light, 2 Zelda's, (the ancient slumbering Zelda from AOL's Backstory, & (BS)LOZ's Zelda), as well as the Sages from OOTURA/OOT, (ESPECIALLY Saria), & give Impa her own town), in addition to Link, & now that I've mentioned that, I might as well post my (more-or-less), current Zelda Timeline:




      I agree with some of it, but I have to disagree with a lot of the timeline...

      Here's my own current timeline:

      [QUOTE=Tuf Pic's (Updated), Timeline, slightly edited] *NECRO-BUMP*: :stalfos:

      I'm sorry, but I recently viewed:

      This video, which (briefly), defends Hyrule Historia, & then goes on to tell you why the poster doesn't believe it anyways...

      Why am I bringing this up?!

      Well, towards the end he says something about how if the fan translations of Hyrule Historia are to be believed, that even Aounuma says that fans aren't required to give up on their timelines/theories, just because Nintendo says something different, as they have changed their minds, from time to time... (Which they have)...

      ...(Skip to 4:34 to hear that part)...

      ...So there MIGHT BE SOME HOPE FOR US AFTER ALL!!

      Also, wanted to take this chance to rearrange my timeline somewhat:

      Pre-Split: SWS -> TMC -> OOTURA/OOT

      Adult Timeline: TWW -> PH -> TT/NT -> ST

      Child Timeline#1: OOTURA -> MM -> ALTTPGBA -> FS (possibly the Anniversary Edition), -> FSA -> SC2 -> LADX/AST -> BSLOZ -> AOL -> OOX

      Child Timeline#2: Regular OOT -> MM -> ALTTPSNES -> FS -> FSA -> OOX -> LAB&W -> ALBW -> LOZ ->G&W -> AOL (Is it possible to switch the order of which game goes before which, from timeline to timeline)?!

      ...&...

      Twilight/Duplicate Child Timeline #3: MM -> TP -> LCT

      The other general media/games have their timelines as well, (yes, even the Tingle games/Mangas/Comic Books/CD-I Games/Cartoons), but I can't think of how to place those, @least @The moment...

      Anything else that I should add?!

      EDIT: ...Slight oversight on my part: Meant to mention Phantom Hourglass, but I forgot...


      ...FIXED...

      ,


      Duke Serkol wrote:

      Ah, so that's why.Well, ALttP and Agahnim are not Capcom so crossing my fingers still for him to show up in some capacity (maybe a Wizzro costume in the ALBW expansion).

      Tuf Pic wrote:

      Hope we get to @least get to see TWINROVA!!Especially if there's @least an option for them to victimize


      I'm starting to think that wish will some day end up etched out onto your tombstone ("Here rests Tuf Pic - Twinrova should have victimized Link!").

      Might be worth it just to confuse the heck out of graveyard visitors.

      1) Glad I could help explain why!!


      ...&...


      2) ...Since it was brought up, well...


      I'm not so sure if I'll have an actual TOMBSTONE, when I pass on into another plane-of-existence, from this 1, (possibly I might get CREMATED?!), & I think that they should still do a remake of OOX & AOL, in addition to a sequel to Link's Awakening!!


      & before you ask which timeline branch the sequel to LADX would take place on, (just incase you don't recall, I mentioned the last time this was brought up on these forums, that they could have done 3 seperate Linked Endings depending on choices made by the player(s) of either/both linkable games, beforehand, much in the same way that they did with the Strange Flutes, which would almost assuredly take place on 3 seperate timelines, anyhow, because you can only have 1 Strange Flute, & hence 1 Pet per-game file, & they would have to, out of necessity take place on different timeline branches anyhow, which was an idea I DID LIKE IN OOX, & depending on which route was taken, either: 1) as much as I loathe this option, Zelda, who has a connection to the
      Display Spoiler
      Goddess Hylia,
      would stay the victim,
      2) Farore, or 3) who both have a connection with the color GREEN would be the victim,), all 3 timelines could be drawn into the new Dreamworld via the
      Display Spoiler
      Windfish's knowledge of multiple worlds/universes/Timelines/Realms/Realities/Dimensions!!



      I hope that makes sense, despite it being quite the long-winded explanation!!


      & Pokemon as well, & now that I've brought that up, I might as well include a URL to another thread I made on these forums:


      http://z9.invisionfree.com/bszelda/index.p...wtopic=1005&hl=


      Just had to get that out there!!
      ,


      ...&...


      Duke Serkol wrote:

      Tuf Pic wrote:

      ...Since it was brought up, well...

      Oh yeah... your grievances with OoX were totally "brought up" coincidentally.
      You most certainly didn't shove them into yet another unrelated thread once again :lol:

      Tuf Pic wrote:

      I'm not so sure if I'll have an actual TOMBSTONE, when I pass on into another plane-of-existence, from this 1, (possibly I might get CREMATED?!), [/QUOTÈ]

      That goes for me too actually. Not a big fan of worms.

      Tuf Pic wrote:

      I hope that makes sense, despite it being quite the long-winded explanation!!
      Let's put it this way: it's just about the usual amount of sense we've come to expect from you ;)
      1) I thought I'd bring it up since the Oracle games were brought into this discussion!!That's why!!
      & I'd @least like to see more game('s) with TWINROVA particularily if they kidnapped/sacrificed (they really seem like the best Zelda villains to do so, @LEAST thus-far, although that still wouldn't placate the fans who wanted FARORE to be the victim, (which, I must admit, has it's own advantages), which is a major reason I suggested the Triple-Linked-Ending idea, & I even recall @1 of the formerly imprisoned carpenters saying something to the effect that the old witches, (i.e. the Hyrulean Koume & Kotake), were far more frightening to them than the regular Gerudo, which seems to heavily imply that Ganondorf's surrogate mothers treat most men/boys, (aside from the Demon King himself, for obvious reasons), WORSE than the regular Gerudo, so yes, they do very much seem to be the perfect villainous characters in Hyrule to kidnap him, aside from everything else I mentioned the last time around)!!

      2) ...Not quite sure which option I'll choose, @this point, but I'm heavily leaning towards cremation...

      ...&...

      3) THANKS!! !!
      Source-threads for the above quotes:

      BS Zelda -> Storyline section Final update,


      ...&...


      BS Zelda -> Hyrule Warriors!!!!


      In other words, I would very much like to see an expanded remake of OOX, (ESPECIALLY if it fixes the horribly 1-sided Linked Ending), in addition to a SEQUEL TO LADX, as well as an expanded remake of AOL, that includes the Heroine/Hero of Light, 2 Zelda's, (the ancient slumbering Zelda from AOL's Backstory, & (BS)LOZ's Zelda), as well as the Sages from OOTURA/OOT, (ESPECIALLY Saria), & give Impa her own town), in addition to Link, & now that I've mentioned that, I might as well post my (more-or-less), current Zelda Timeline:




      I agree with some of it, but I have to disagree with a lot of the timeline...

      Here's my own current timeline:

      [QUOTE=Tuf Pic's (Updated), Timeline, slightly edited] *NECRO-BUMP*: :stalfos:

      I'm sorry, but I recently viewed:

      This video, which (briefly), defends Hyrule Historia, & then goes on to tell you why the poster doesn't believe it anyways...

      Why am I bringing this up?!

      Well, towards the end he says something about how if the fan translations of Hyrule Historia are to be believed, that even Aounuma says that fans aren't required to give up on their timelines/theories, just because Nintendo says something different, as they have changed their minds, from time to time... (Which they have)...

      ...(Skip to 4:34 to hear that part)...

      ...So there MIGHT BE SOME HOPE FOR US AFTER ALL!!

      Also, wanted to take this chance to rearrange my timeline somewhat:

      Pre-Split: SWS -> TMC -> OOTURA/OOT

      Adult Timeline: TWW -> PH -> TT/NT -> ST

      Child Timeline#1: OOTURA -> MM -> ALTTPGBA -> FS (possibly the Anniversary Edition), -> FSA -> SC2 -> LADX/AST -> BSLOZ -> AOL -> OOX

      Child Timeline#2: Regular OOT -> MM -> ALTTPSNES -> FS -> FSA -> OOX -> LAB&W -> ALBW -> LOZ ->G&W -> AOL (Is it possible to switch the order of which game goes before which, from timeline to timeline)?!

      ...&...

      Twilight/Duplicate Child Timeline #3: MM -> TP -> LCT

      The other general media/games have their timelines as well, (yes, even the Tingle games/Mangas/Comic Books/CD-I Games/Cartoons), but I can't think of how to place those, @least @The moment...

      Anything else that I should add?!

      EDIT: ...Slight oversight on my part: Meant to mention Phantom Hourglass, but I forgot...


      ...FIXED...

      Well, simply put, 1 of my ideas posted up above is that Link choosing the Strange Flute('s) of either Ricky, Moosh, &/or Dimitri would HAVE to take place on 3 separate timelines, which is what I wish they did for the Linked Ending, so that either, Zelda, Farore, or Link, would get kidnapped/sacrificed by TWINROVA, amongst many other things, (possibly in a remake of OOX)?!

      TWINROVA, particularily if there was @least an option for them to victimize LINK!! :tingle: :mastahsword:
      [

      Mod Edit: No YouTube videos allowed in sigs, thank you!
    • Hey Zant was amazingly epic, till his last cut scene where he 180ed to pathetic so fast I got whiplash.

      I think I'd want to see a return to Termina with Fierce Deity as a vengeful god whose on the brink of escaping the FDM and once he does plans to destroy the world in repayment for being trapped.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • He was was of Zelda’s greatest villains till he took off his mask and turned into a tantrum throwing child and had to be swapped out with Ganondorf at then last second. Prior to that he has the design, atmosphere and charism to be one of Zelda’s greatest villains. They just seriously bungled the conclusion with him.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.
    • Anything but Ganon or a Ganon-alike or another Hijacked-By-Ganon subvillain. Nintendo ruined Ganon forever when they retconned Demise into the series and turned him into an evil devil figure, instead of a man who had fallen to greed. We had peak Ganondorf in The Wind Waker, where he was a nuanced, sympathetic villain that I secretly rooted for when he was trying to restore Hyrule. Other than that, the most interesting villains have been the non-Ganon ones - Skull Kid/Majora's Mask, Vaati, Ghirahim (pre-Demise reveal), Zant (pre-Ganon reveal). Hell, even the Shadow Nightmares from Link's Awakening had more interesting motivation than most of Ganon's incarnations - they were trying to keep the Wind Fish asleep because that was necessary for them to survive, and they would tell you as much.

      However, Miyamoto (and likely others in the Zelda team) are, for some reason, really attached to always telling the same story with the same characters. Let me direct you to this quote from Miyamoto:

      "But the moment I say Yoshi lays eggs so Yoshi must be a girl, they'll say, 'Then Yoshi's voice needs to sound more like a girl's!' But I want to make video games without having to worry about such background info. Take the animated series Popeye, for example. In old cartoons like those, the roles of the characters were different every time. Even though the setting was different each time, the characters you knew and loved would come out and perform. Well, the Mario games are set up like that. It would be much easier if we could use any setting in The Legend of Zelda while preserving the essential relationship between Link, Ganon and Zelda."
      Source: iwataasks.nintendo.com/intervi…zelda-ocarina-of-time/4/2
      =
      Pronouns: He/Him

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Max N. ().

    • So, because they "ruined" Ganon they aren't ever supposed to do anything with him ever again, even though it could improve his character? I'd take a BotW-style game with a more developed Ganondorf. Maybe a retelling of OoT?

      Of course, I also feel it's important for the pendulum to swing, as the saying goes, so I do want to see villains besides Ganondorf, with different motives. I think Agahnim could inspire a new, independent sorcerer-type villain. I also think a sorceress like Cia has a place in the series; Link's already proven to be a chick magnet, so it makes sense that sooner or later he's going to catch a villainess' fancy too.

      I also think Zelda games could try having more than one villain or villainous faction, ideally opposed to each other. For example, there could be an enemy nation, "the Empire", who seeks to conquer Hyrule, and then there's a rogue pirate faction that happily steals from both sides. Or say you have one villain that favors technology, and another that opposes technology.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Miles ().

    • No they’re not “supposed” to do anything. However because they “ruined” him there is a serious limit to the capacity he can play in a story. He is the incarnation of Demise’s hatred bent on destroying then Goddess Blood Princess and the Spirit of the Hero. Because of his simplistic motivation they have basically no ability to make him a nuanced character so any time he shows up all he can be is the traditional villain archetype “I want to rule the world and kill you because villains like power and I’m evil and stuff.” Anything involving Ganondorf has to start with that because of Skyward Sword so the stories they can tell are rather basic and can’t really be interesting. That’s what it means to ruin a character. It’s not that they can’t use him again but that they’ve written themselves into such a position that said character has nothing new to offer. He can only ever be “the big bad”, nothing more. That’s why an unseen villain would be better because they wouldn’t be creatively limited.
      "The Oathkeeper's Dawn"

      Game In Progress - It has been thirty years since the Dawn of the New Day when without a hero to rescue them champions of the people were forced to rise up and save themselves. Now, on the eve of the 130th Carnival of Time strange rumours circulate the land. Will your wits be enough to discover what has taken hold of the land?

      Any help on this project would be appreciated. I want to make it in Solarus which means a 2D ALttP style. However if you don't want to provide technical help there are a range of pieces to work on. Sprites and artwork, music, level design or if you like simply brainstorming and suggesting alterations to the ideas I have currently compiled would be more than welcome.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by TriforceHolder ().

    • I would personally love to see the backstory of Twilight Princess get made into an actual game. Flesh out the Interlopers, show how they managed, however briefly, to take over Hyrule. Maybe go out on a limb and flip the Hero/Princess perspective for a change? Why not have a Heroine and Prince find the Light Spirits and defeat the Interlopers with their help? Maybe even have an epilogue showing the Interlopers become the Twili?

      Barring that, I'd love to see a return of Majora's Mask. It was quite an interesting incarnation of chaos, with motives contrasting with Ganondorf's or any other "I want to rule the world" villain. Majora doesn't want to rule squat, it wants to see the world burn.


      BotW Zelda in her purple Hylian Gear, by my husband, D4rkSilver
    • Violetlight wrote:

      I would personally love to see the backstory of Twilight Princess get made into an actual game. Flesh out the Interlopers, show how they managed, however briefly, to take over Hyrule. Maybe go out on a limb and flip the Hero/Princess perspective for a change? Why not have a Heroine and Prince find the Light Spirits and defeat the Interlopers with their help? Maybe even have an epilogue showing the Interlopers become the Twili?
      I'd want them to be portrayed somewhat sympathetically. I tend to see the Twili as having legitimate grievances against the goddesses, and it would be nice for them not to be pure villains even before their transformation.
      "But I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want sin."
      "In fact," said Mustapha Mond, "you're claiming the right to be unhappy."
      "All right then," said the Savage defiantly, "I'm claiming the right to be unhappy."
      "Not to mention the right to grow old and ugly and impotent; the right to have syphilis and cancer; the right to have too little to eat; the right to be lousy; the right to live in constant apprehension of what may happen to-morrow; the right to catch typhoid; the right to be tortured by unspeakable pains of every kind." There was a long silence.
      "I claim them all," said the Savage at last.
      Mustapha Mond shrugged his shoulders. "You're welcome," he said.

      —Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
    • Miles wrote:

      So, because they "ruined" Ganon they aren't ever supposed to do anything with him ever again, even though it could improve his character?
      Pretty much, yeah. I'd be happy if they never used Ganon again. I'm bored of him, and he's pretty much wrung dry.

      Moving on from the identity of the villain, I'm interested in talking about how they use the villain. Sort of like Mango, one thing I want to see is a villain who is more active in the story and has a character arc of their own. They don't just sit in their castle and wait for you, they actually have agency over the world. There are SOME examples of villains in the series who take actions throughout the story, but almost no examples of villains who have their own character arc AND take action at more than just the beginning of the story. Only Vaati and the Skull Kid come to mind.

      Examples of villains having agency over the game world, the sort of stuff I want to see more of:
      - Ganondorf destroying Greatfish Isle in The Wind Waker
      - Ganondorf capturing Link and Zelda in The Wind Waker
      - Veran gradually taking more actions in the past that affect the world in the future in Oracle of Ages
      - Ghirahim running with Zelda throughout SKyward Sword (up until the demise reveal, when he gets hijacked by Ganon like Zant, Onox, Veran, and Agahnim before him)
      - Vaati in Minish Cap, but I don't remember specifics enough (I should replay that)

      Uhh... I'm running out. The Zelda series is super guilty of doing poorly in this area. Villainous actions tend to be off-screen, and they are otherwise very passive forces in the world. I understand why this is, but
      Pronouns: He/Him

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Max N. ().

    • I still feel like I'm the only one who doesn't think that Demise "ruined" any characters. Like yeah there's always going to be villains, him lampshading it doesn't change anything. It's not like Ganondorf was a born antichrist or anything. Except Ganondorf II, FSA was a mistake.

      I think having Demise actually makes Ganondorf more interesting because nobody gives a shit about Demise, he's been dead for a long time. But Ganondorf's just a dude, a dude that won't give up and die.

      Anyway I do think it's time to give ol' Ganny a break and do another villain. As much as I like "big evil bad guy" villains, things need to be mixed up to stay fresh. I think it should be "Weird malevolent force that's creepily intelligent and pulling the strings" time, but not like Ganon, more like Kefka or Dimentio. Maybe even more surreal than those two. Gimme that real reality-bending Majora tier stuff, but like make it an actual character instead of "Haha weird and occult, am I right you guys?"

      I'm not saying they should be a clown, and they don't have relatable, just interesting in a different way. Ghirahim isn't relatable pretty much at all, but he's so different and fun that it doesn't matter. I want something new like that was, something strange.

      From a character standpoint, maybe something like Azula. Smart, strong, a magical prodigy, always one step ahead, and slowly going nuts, but never relatable.

      In my brother's idea for a Zelda game he made years ago, the antagonist is a disguised Ganon that sells you items to clear dungeons with, not realizing that in doing so you're actually weakening the seal on his power. Maybe it could be something like that: the whole "Oh no there's a big evil" thing is an elaborate ruse that this new antagonist sets up to gain power. Once you get to the big twist, the game enters "Part 2"--the dark world, the future, the Twilight, whatever "Part 2" entails.
    • It depends on how they do the next game story-wise. BoTW Ganon wasn't actually a bad choice, a force of nature (which is essentially what he was) can be a good antagonist so long as the conflicts leading up to it are interesting.

      But I would like to see a more relatable villain, similar to the Skull Kid or WW Ganon. They haven't really done this with a Zelda game in a while, the last few we've had have all essentially been a pure embodiment of evil.
      It's a shame to ruin such a beautiful morning by being awake

      -Bill Watterson
    • lord-of-shadow wrote:

      Miles wrote:

      So, because they "ruined" Ganon they aren't ever supposed to do anything with him ever again, even though it could improve his character?
      Pretty much, yeah. I'd be happy if they never used Ganon again. I'm bored of him, and he's pretty much wrung dry.
      Moving on from the identity of the villain, I'm interested in talking about how they use the villain. Sort of like Mango, one thing I want to see is a villain who is more active in the story and has a character arc of their own. They don't just sit in their castle and wait for you, they actually have agency over the world. There are SOME examples of villains in the series who take actions throughout the story, but almost no examples of villains who have their own character arc AND take action at more than just the beginning of the story. Only Vaati and the Skull Kid come to mind.

      Examples of villains having agency over the game world, the sort of stuff I want to see more of:
      - Ganondorf destroying Greatfish Isle in The Wind Waker
      - Ganondorf capturing Link and Zelda in The Wind Waker
      - Veran gradually taking more actions in the past that affect the world in the future in Oracle of Ages
      - Ghirahim running with Zelda throughout SKyward Sword (up until the demise reveal, when he gets hijacked by Ganon like Zant, Onox, Veran, and Agahnim before him)
      - Vaati in Minish Cap, but I don't remember specifics enough (I should replay that)

      Uhh... I'm running out. The Zelda series is super guilty of doing poorly in this area. Villainous actions tend to be off-screen, and they are otherwise very passive forces in the world. I understand why this is, but
      Don't forget how Yuga kicked off ALBW by turning Seres into a painting, then captured Osfala the same way, battled you twice, and tricked Hilda into helping him acquire not only the Triforce of Wisdom but also Ganon's body and the Triforce of Power. He was a pretty active villain, arguably the most active after Ghirahim.

      And see, I would love a game that makes Ganondorf more than just the bad guy at the end. OoT and TWW showed so much more of his personality than any other games in the series. I understand the desire to give Dorf a break, but I don't want him ever being retired permanently, especially not in light of the potential BotW presents for the series. He's cool, and he deserves a game where he can steal the spotlight with awesomely wicked dialogue.

      That said, I'm also open to games where other villains get a shot in the spotlight. Given that BotW will likely provide the mechanical base for the series going forward, it only makes sense that they'll try a variety of stories, characters, and even lands to keep the experience fresh.
    • If they ever did a plane-focused follow up to Spirit Tracks, I could see an emperor or dictator of an enemy nation with a Red Baron-esque right-hand minion. Of course, being that this is Zelda we're talking about, in all likelihood some manner of demon is involved as well. The Red Baron-esque character could secretly be a demon lord in the vein of Ghirahim or Chancellor Cole (their plane might even be called something like the Crimson Demon or Scarlet Demon), and be using the Emperor to achieve some ulterior motive. Naturally, said character would duel Link both in the air and on the ground.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Miles ().