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    • Nintendo
    Super Smash Bros. Official Discussion Thread: EVERYONE IS HERE
    • Cajbaj wrote:


      This is extremely likely and I want to die. Fire Emblem is going to have like 10 characters and there hasn't been a new Zelda character in Smash since I was like 2 years old. That's pathetic.

      I'm totally with you on the 'Zelda needs new fighters' bit. The fact that it's only got 6 (but really only 3, because 3 of those six are just alternate forms of the same character) is more than just a little irritating. Like, I had high hopes we'd see a BotW Champion or maybe Skull Kid this time around. Instead, we get... two assist trophies from Majora's Mask. Yaaaaaay...

      The FE over-representation bit though... I don't really see it. We don't have too many FE characters; we have too many Marths.

      Cut Lucina and Chrom. If absolutely necessary, save one or the other as an alt for Marth, but we don't need them both as stand-alone characters. That brings us down to 5: Marth, Ike, Robin (who are excellent examples of the three main parts of FE history), Corrin, and Roy. Like, I'd rather have Micaiah or Hector over Roy or Corrin, but whatever, that's fine. Now if Edelgard uses an Axe and not a sword, then FE will have a totally acceptable number of combatants who aren't all super samey and people will finally shut up about it.

      ...granted, this will never happen, but a man can dream.
      What good is Power without the Wisdom to wield it? What good is Wisdom without the Courage to act? What good is Courage without the Power to change the world?

      NNID: Croutonz
    • Creiddylad wrote:

      I mean if any Nintendo fans are going to buy DLC it'd probably be Fire Emblem fans considering how much we're willing to spend on a gatcha game.
      I do feel like the complaints about the amount of Fire Emblem characters are a bit overstated if only because it often looks past how historical and significant the series actually is. I mean I would still like there to be greater variety with the Fire Emblem reps we have, both from what games they're from and how they play, and I understand the frustration there. However, 7 characters, two of which are echoes, from a series that started on the NES and has an immensely large cast is not ridiculous. Part of the amount is from bringing everyone back so some characters who could have been dropped because of lack of relevance returned, too.

      I mean, I’m not really a complainer about the amount of FE characters, but representation is definitely skewed when Zelda hasn’t had a newcomer in forever and still just has 4 unique characters. And that’s still a more “significant” series than FE.

      It comes down to just Sakurai doing what he wants and not really basing it on series importance and whatnot. Which is fine overall, I guess. I mean, it’s giving us Pirhana Plant lol.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Common Knowledge ().

    • I mean... 'unique'.

      All three Links have movesets that are remarkably similar. They're not echos, and I suppose many will argue that they're different enough that they shouldn't be called clones, but... I mean, down b is a bomb, up b is a spin attack, side b is a boomerang, neutral b is a bow and arrow... different hit boxes, damage outputs, and some changes in Smash attacks may sound like a lot to some, but they're still basically the exact same character.

      When I say 'unique', I'm talking about the level of difference we see in Zelda and Sheik. Even Isabelle feels more unique, and half the fanbase calls her a clone.
      What good is Power without the Wisdom to wield it? What good is Wisdom without the Courage to act? What good is Courage without the Power to change the world?

      NNID: Croutonz
    • Common Knowledge wrote:

      I mean, I’m not really a complainer about the amount of FE characters, but representation is definitely skewed when Zelda hasn’t had a newcomer in forever and still just has 4 unique characters. And that’s still a more “significant” series than FE.

      It comes down to just Sakurai doing what he wants and not really basing it on series importance and whatnot. Which is fine overall, I guess. I mean, it’s giving us Pirhana Plant lol.

      I'm not arguing against Zelda getting another rep, either. I'm just saying the FE backlash in general gets a little overblown. There's not really a need to pit different franchises represented in smash against each other.

      On representation, I think part of the problem lies in how both series have had characters introduced. Fire Emblem doesn't typically have the same characters from game to game so the most recent main character will be added to maintain relevance. But for Zelda, it generally maintains its core cast so to maintain relevance, the characters just have to have their looks and moves tweaked to fit the most recent iteration. So when we bring everyone back, there's naturally more Fire Emblem characters than Zelda characters. If everyone hadn't been returning then I feel like Lucina and Roy (and maybe Chrom could have not been added :'^)) could have easily been dropped while the Zelda reps would have stayed the same minus young Link. I'm still totally for a Zelda character being added that isn't just some iteration of Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf. I'm participial to Impa if they want to maintain the precedent of reoccurring Zelda characters.

      And I bring up significance since it's always downplayed when it comes to Fire Emblem. People don't think about it as much because it historically has not been nearly as popular in the West as it is in Japan. Significance is rather relative to where we're talking about. Zelda is way more popular in the West and Fire Emblem is way more popular in Japan.
    • I know I said it already, but no trophies really, truly blows. Collecting and reading through their descriptions is one of my favorite parts of past Smash games. And I don't see an indication that the Spirits will have character history/descriptions attached to them. One of the biggest aspects of Smash is its celebration of Nintendo (well, mostly Nintendo) history, and not having those will definitely leave a hole in game that is otherwise the "Ultimate" entry.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Common Knowledge ().

    • Trophy descriptions were what set me on the path to discover other series. Without the Mother trophies I collected (and admittedly the spotlight it got with the cutscenes in Brawl) I don't know if I ever would have ended up playing the games. The Sm4sh trophy descriptions were already kind of a let down since the pendulum swung in the opposite direction after people were upset about spoilers in Brawl's trophies. Maybe something will be maintained for the fighters at least. Like some kind of character descriptions or bios you can read anytime?
    • I suspect that the Spirits will have that kind of description stuff.

      Trophies were really expensive to make for the sheer number of them, even assuming that thye could mostly reuse models and art from the original games. I'd have made the same decision if I were Nintendo; ultimatley it's a lot of work for fairly small gain just to have 3D models. Reusing 2D art is much cheaper and easier.
    • Abyss Master wrote:

      I struggle to fully understand this complaint. I've seen it elsewhere, but I honestly don't get it.

      Like, does anyone here really feel like the hype is so important that it's not enough to just get hyped anymore, we need to get hyped the right way at the right time?
      They revealed so many new fighters early on, most people expected a last minute 'bang', instead of a Pokémon and an echo.

      Abyss Master wrote:

      Anyone remember what the hype strategy was for Brawl? Or Smash 4?
      Yeah, there were actually some unannounced fighters! So when the game launched, people were talking about how there were even more than expected.

      Abyss Master wrote:

      So if the DLC doesn't match that value relative to price, it's deemed to be expensive? I find that reasoning to be deeply flawed, because we clearly don't apply it to other fighting games
      Well, I'm not comparing it with other fighting games. I do look at games like Mario Kart 8 on the Wii U. You had a 50% increase in cups, for a 30% increase in price. Great deal.
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    • Sooo this game is actually just a new Kirby's Dreamland ?

      And Piranha Plant is the ultimate troll–I love it.

      Abyss Master wrote:

      Common Knowledge wrote:

      Sakurai’s entire hype strategy with Smash Bros. is just so weird. Way too front loaded. I mean, saving Ken and Incineroar as the final two reveals?
      I struggle to fully understand this complaint. I've seen it elsewhere, but I honestly don't get it.

      Like, does anyone here really feel like the hype is so important that it's not enough to just get hyped anymore, we need to get hyped the right way at the right time? I don't think I've honestly heard about "hype strategy" before, and it certainly didn't seem to be a factor with the previous games in the series. Anyone remember what the hype strategy was for Brawl? Or Smash 4? I can recall some pretty cool character announcements, but for the life of me I can't remember who got announced in what order.

      And the reason for that is simple; the hype is utterly inconsequential after the fact. It's like a bag of crisps - delicious and satisfying in the moment as you gorge on it, but it doesn't really amount to anything worthwhile in the long run.
      ''hype strategy'' is just marketing. Sakurai himself said that promoting is similarly important to the production of the game itself. Why else would they drop millions upon millions of dollars on all these promotional videos/events?

      And even though the marketing doesn't affect the quality of the game, doesn't mean you can't criticise or praise it. And honestly, the build-up and hype to a game like Smash is a super fun ride in and of itself.

      Anyway, I also think they should've left some of the bigger character reveals for this last Smash Direct. My hype peaked early. But their overall marketing for Ultimate has been absolutely amazing.


      Canyarion wrote:

      Abyss Master wrote:

      Maybe $25 is a lot for five characters + five stages. I don't really think so,
      You're getting 74 fighters for €50. Sure, these 5 are brand new, but I think it's expensive. A 50% price increase just to get a 6% character increase.But the main game is just a great deal. It's such a good deal that they need expensive DLC to make a real profit.
      This is also a weird one. Why frame it in percentages? Why ignore precedent? It doesn't really seem like a very sensible way of approaching this.

      Sure, you're getting a game chocked full of content for the standard price. I don't think that should mean that the DLC should be priced as a percentage of the main game, because as you point out, the game is such a great deal for the amount of content it packs. So if the DLC doesn't match that value relative to price, it's deemed to be expensive? I find that reasoning to be deeply flawed, because we clearly don't apply it to other fighting games (Soul Calibur 6 and Marvel vs Capcom Infinite both have you pay $30 for their respective season passes, Tekken 7 has you pay $5 for a single DLC character, all of which is entirely comparable to Smash Ultimate), and it would actually mean that for every character that's added to the roster, the inherent value of each individual character is diminished. So if we take this to its logical conclusion, it would mean that the fewer characters you have in the roster, the more you're allowed to charge for them because they individually make up a larger percentage of the total roster.

      That seems backwards to me.
      Why is that weird? It's literally the most logical way to look at it, if you're looking at pure value for your money.
      - €50 for: 74 fighters, 108 stages, single player and all the rest
      - €75 for: 79 fighters, 113 stages, single player and all the rest

      Now, I fully applaud Sakurai and team for offering such a comprehensive game for €50.
      But am I going to pay €25–half a new game–for 5 extra characters, when I already have 74 to pick from + sooo much other content? Like with Smash4: probably not. The value is significantly lower. There's nothing backward about that. And I'm not implying devs should put less in the core game because then I might not buy it to begin with.

      But if your willingness to pay is higher than mine–cool. That's the whole point of DLC after all, it's just price discrimination.
    • How hype can the previous reveals really be when everyone throws them aside whenever a new toy comes out the box? When it comes down not to the content being revealed but how it's revealed, it just becomes ego stroking.

      Anyway piranha plant looks fun, love the alternate colours. I really don't see it as any different to Yoshi or Pichu in it being a more generic character. It seemed weird they spent so much on Spirits before they showed the adventure mode, but I'm pretty sure it'll be in that Spirit mode tab too? So it makes a bit more sense
    • Miles wrote:

      Seriously, dude lost a chance at the roster to a Piranha Plant!? That has got to be a whole new level of insult, to get relegated to an Assist Trophy again while a common, nameless minion gets to be a limited edition preorder bonus.
      Well, it helps that Piranha Plant has a variety of combat-geared moves directly from the Mario games and arguably has more of a fighting role than a lot of the cast.

      Still though, surprised not even Paper Mario would make them playable but Smash Bros will. And kinda weird to defeat Bowser with his footsoldier, but it's always been weird for Peach and Zelda to pummel their oppressors one-on-one as well so meh.

      God I love this plant.

      Also

      Just went by the Smash Bros website again browsing images and



      Dis some kinky stuff.
    • I'm surprised people are so disappointed. Did no one notice that Lip mii costume? Panel de Pon hasn't gotten any new content since Melee, and the official costume is much more impressive than my attempt at a Lip mii fighter in Smash 4. She can even dual-wield Lip's sticks! I'm already planning to use Lip and Yoshi together for a Panel de Pon/Tetris Attack team up.

      (I'm only half joking.)

      The event matches look fun. They've always been pretty creative with referencing the games, but including assist trophies (which didn't appear in Smash 4's event matches, as I recall) should open up a lot of possibility. And it's nice that the spirit you unlock is always related to the event you beat, though I have a feeling "kinda sorta similar" was the key phrase in that sentence.

      The spirits themselves are an intriguing. I can definitely see myself having some fun with that. For example, BotW Link could get all four champion spirits. Fox and Wolf can both have their teammates for support. Fire Emblem characters can simulate support mechanics. Shulk can come with the party that appears in his final smash. And that's just being artistic about it with no care for what the spirits actually do (or the limitations on how many you can have and which ones are primary or support). I had some fun with Smash 4's equipment, and this seems like an improvement over that system.

      On the other hand, leveling up the spirits, and having them gather treasure while you're away, could easily feel grindy and pointless. And it looks like it's fairly random which events you get. I'm wary of those aspects. But overall, I see a lot of promise in spirits.


      The new adventure mode looks cool, too.
      Goddess of the Sands

      Map of Thyphlo Ruins

      Forest Architects

      If you have Amiibo Tap: Nintendo's Greatest Bits on Wii U, you can reset which games your amiibo unlock by deleting the game and then redownloading it.