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Persona 5 Mafia - Wake Up, Get Up, Get Out There
  • PrinnyOfTime wrote:

    So, I think my biggest problem when it comes to this game is that most times I have no idea what I should do to generate content. What are some traditional strategies people use when they're unsure of where or how to proceed? I know some people will use votes just to get information out of people, but I honestly don't really know who I should pressure at this point...or if I should be pressuring anyone at all.

    Day 1 is the hardest day to come up with anything for, but if you don't know who to target you should still vote since it helps the town if everyone has a vote record. When we look back at the votes in later days we'll see from the votes that the Mafia will tend to shy away from voting for other Mafia, or if they do, they usually try and escape their commitment when it comes to a close vote.

    So a game where everyone votes is a more pro-town game, and also just a more interesting game for everyone to play.
  • Cody wrote:

    PrinnyOfTime wrote:

    So, I think my biggest problem when it comes to this game is that most times I have no idea what I should do to generate content. What are some traditional strategies people use when they're unsure of where or how to proceed? I know some people will use votes just to get information out of people, but I honestly don't really know who I should pressure at this point...or if I should be pressuring anyone at all.
    Day 1 is the hardest day to come up with anything for, but if you don't know who to target you should still vote since it helps the town if everyone has a vote record. When we look back at the votes in later days we'll see from the votes that the Mafia will tend to shy away from voting for other Mafia, or if they do, they usually try and escape their commitment when it comes to a close vote.

    So a game where everyone votes is a more pro-town game, and also just a more interesting game for everyone to play.
    So we should vote simply for the sake of voting even if we don't know who to vote for or have no reason to? That's just random voting, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that feels more like RNG and just hoping you vote for someone and they're Mafia. I can see why voting is useful since the objective is to kill Mafia, but voting without reason seems very dangerous.
  • Serenity wrote:

    Not denying the fallacies here, but I am noting the increased likelihood over time.
    That's the fallacy, since there is no increased likelihood over time.

    Orion wrote:

    @Don Saltine What is one thing that someone can do for you to view them as scum? Like what bugs you the most that someone can say?
    Good job on the scummy question there. "What's one thing the scum team should avoid doing to be townread?"

    PrinnyOfTime wrote:

    So, I think my biggest problem when it comes to this game is that most times I have no idea what I should do to generate content. What are some traditional strategies people use when they're unsure of where or how to proceed? I know some people will use votes just to get information out of people, but I honestly don't really know who I should pressure at this point...or if I should be pressuring anyone at all.
    Don't worry too much about it, I never know what to do to generate content either. And when I try, it ends up with no one trusting me.

    I'd do things like no lynch to Ruki's face, openly claiming godfather, outright claiming a character in my first post, etc....
    Only in one of those cases did it actually work out, and that's the one case we can't do here lmao
  • PrinnyOfTime wrote:

    Cody wrote:

    PrinnyOfTime wrote:

    So, I think my biggest problem when it comes to this game is that most times I have no idea what I should do to generate content. What are some traditional strategies people use when they're unsure of where or how to proceed? I know some people will use votes just to get information out of people, but I honestly don't really know who I should pressure at this point...or if I should be pressuring anyone at all.
    Day 1 is the hardest day to come up with anything for, but if you don't know who to target you should still vote since it helps the town if everyone has a vote record. When we look back at the votes in later days we'll see from the votes that the Mafia will tend to shy away from voting for other Mafia, or if they do, they usually try and escape their commitment when it comes to a close vote.
    So a game where everyone votes is a more pro-town game, and also just a more interesting game for everyone to play.
    So we should vote simply for the sake of voting even if we don't know who to vote for or have no reason to? That's just random voting, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that feels more like RNG and just hoping you vote for someone and they're Mafia. I can see why voting is useful since the objective is to kill Mafia, but voting without reason seems very dangerous.
    Day 1 votes always have weaker reasonings than votes on later days since we don't know anything yet, and are still getting used to the game. So don't be too afraid to act on something you feel is off, even if you feel like it's overreacting. Even if we don't lynch there, it's progress regarding information.
  • PrinnyOfTime wrote:

    So, I think my biggest problem when it comes to this game is that most times I have no idea what I should do to generate content. What are some traditional strategies people use when they're unsure of where or how to proceed? I know some people will use votes just to get information out of people, but I honestly don't really know who I should pressure at this point...or if I should be pressuring anyone at all.
    Well personally I look for scummy behavior which I laid out in my first or second post of the game. Things like throwing shade on those who are not used to defending themselves. Like newbies. Those saying a lot but not really contributing things of substance beyond stroking their e-dick.

    I wonder who can fit that bill.

    But alas, I think we need another wagon started.

    [vote]Orion[/vote]

    You’re a player whose around. Now you really haven’t added much of value. You say you sound non-commital because you don’t like to guarantee shit or whatever. However to me that really sounds like you’re trying to push off accountability. In higher level games like this where nothing is for sure, nobody is going to be 100 percent positive. But that doesn’t excuse a wishy washy attitude. Its 100 percent no chill or nothing.

    :heart: Rinn “Arwyn” Nailo drawn by Liah :heart:
    Rakshael: if I know one thing about Ruki, it's that she'll prove you wrong just for the sake of saying she did it
    Characters | The Time Lost | The Rumors We Believe | Ruki's Reviews
  • PrinnyOfTime wrote:

    So we should vote simply for the sake of voting even if we don't know who to vote for or have no reason to? That's just random voting, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that feels more like RNG and just hoping you vote for someone and they're Mafia. I can see why voting is useful since the objective is to kill Mafia, but voting without reason seems very dangerous.
    Well give a reasoning based on a read or whatever if you can. The average situation for Town on Day 1 is that we mislynch. The worst situation for town is that most of us don't vote and then we can't get anything out of Day 1 on later days.

    As Ruki says, if you're looking for a good reason to vote for someone look for a player who feels like they are laying low. Our aim in the Day thread is to generate activity (game-related activity obviously, not chatting about horses), because in a game where half the players don't post the Mafia win percentage goes way up.
  • @Orion

    The biggest things for me are things that don't really apply until Day Two (not taking into account day role actions). Bad vote patterns do a lot in indicating to me who is guilty, but these shouldn't be taken in a vacuum as Town folks can also just get real unlucky with who they've decided to vote for.

    Aside from voting patterns, the biggest single action for me is switching votes (particularly off the top wagon but onto the top wagon could also be suspicious if the lynch flips Mafia) at the very end of the day (seemingly) without cause, that is in the absence of a role claim or other evidence that could clear the name of the top wagon. This is also something that really can't be addressed by the Town as a whole until the following day unless the person who pulled that stunt left just enough time for enough people to see it, process, and respond by voting them with enough ferocity to change the lynch (or a dayvig could also see them in that case assuming they can still shoot that late but even then depending on how many people are here it may not be enough to save the presumably innocent person at the top despite an assumed day extension).
  • EnigmaFarce wrote:

    @Mordred
    Who are you most suspicious of at the moment? Got any idea who you're voting for?
    Serenity and Orion are probably my top suspects at the moment, out of the people I remember posting. There might be some more who haven't even showed up yet.

    Slightly uncomfortable with Lysis too, but there's just way too many people who have barely contributed, including some veteran players who really should be participating more. @Dark Link Reigns, @Sabbo, @Kae, etc. Some of them might not even have posted. I don't think @Kol Gaines has posted either, but I could be mistaken.
    I could be mistaken on the activity of all of these because most of the action happens while I'm asleep!
    intense salt over time zones

    Haven't decided who to vote for yet, I like to wait for a bit because I'm honestly just that lazy and don't like changing my vote because typing out the vote and unvote takes time and is just annoying.
  • Serenity wrote:

    Yes, yes. I know.
    To be honest, I think we should judge who's Mafia on who can keep an act well enough. And I know the gambler's fallacy is a thing, but really I still don't have all that much to go off of here. And I do think that, if someone is one side of the coin like three times in a row, then it would be more likely that they'd be the other side of the coin next time. Of course, in terms of scientific theory, for each individual turn, they always have half or a third of a chance. Not denying the fallacies here, but I am noting the increased likelihood over time.
    There is no such thing as increased likelihood over time; the fact that you say this means you are denying the fallacy. When a coin comes up heads 3 times there is still a 50% chance of heads next time. It is ridiculous to accuse someone of being scum or not scum based on what roles they have played recently.

    Ruki wrote:

    Its 100 percent no chill or nothing.
    Ruki can we be the "No Chill Squad" together this game or something if everyone else this game is going to be so hesitant to even make a committed vote Day 1? :v:
  • So sorry guys! I totally forgot the game started last night then work has been kicking my ass this morning. Finally caught up though:

    Serenity wrote:

    Lysis wrote:

    [vote]Serenity[/vote], to mix it up, why DO you deserve to die today?
    I deserve to die as much as any other townie I.E. not at all. I get that someone must die on day 1, and that that someone will most likely be town, but I'd like to think that I am not the weakest link here.

    Ruki wrote:

    And what exactly can you bring to the table to actually ensure seeing through bullshit?
    I've played as Mafia in previous games. I think I can see through bullshit and add pressure.
    I'm going to dissect this post into two parts:

    1) Wrong. There are absolutely some townies who are meant solely to die to help win. Them dying is used to preserve the town power roles (vanilla townies being the prime candidates).

    2) This statement is bullshit. You've played as mafia twice and now you think you can just easily see through any bullshit that mafia members put forth? Kind of have a big ego there.

    Serenity wrote:

    If you are town, I'd understand the feeling of apprehension towards me, but I don't think that would be the best reason to vote for me. People, town included, having a vendetta against me could easily lead in the Mafia manipulating your feelings and judgment.
    Having a feeling of apprehension because we can't trust you and the things you are saying seem scummy is not a good enough reason to vote for you? And where is this "vendetta"? People are pointing out how your posts seem pretty anti-town and that is all of a sudden a vendetta? How about, if you really feel that the mafia could be manipulating us, you give us reasons for why you should not be lynched today because up until now, I've yet to see any solid reason to keep you around past Day 1.

    Serenity wrote:

    I don't think anyone should be given a no-kill badge or whatever, unless there is concrete proof in the actions/powers of their role. Saying that X should be killed, and Y should be given leeway for much of the game could very easily lead to Mafia manipulating our decisions. And, if it wasn't clear, my read list right now is you, Don, Xenovent, and Bolero. At least one of these four should be Mafia.
    On what grounds do you have even the remotest bit of proof that one of those 4 is mafia? You make claims like this, provide absolutely no evidence to back it up, then say that when people question you on actions like these it is a vendetta. Like come on, you need to provide us with some actual proof before you make claims like this.

    Serenity wrote:

    Monika wrote:

    "Don't vote for me because it's what scum want." :cookiemonster:

    I thought everyone knew I'm always listening.
    Then how should I convince people to not vote for me, if you're the always listening townie that you say you are? Are you saying I should role claim?
    How about instead of asking someone else how to prove your innocence, you figure it out for yourself? Getting someone to tell you how to look innocent isn't innocent looking at all. If you honestly have nothing to hide, you will find a way to convince the town that you are actually town.

    This line of questioning is not helping you appear that way.

    Serenity wrote:

    Edit: now that I think about it, the last two games that Don participated in, both of which I was a part of, had her as town both times. How likely is it that she would be town three times in a row? By that logic, that would make @Lysis just a suspicious as her. I know that this isn't the best logic, but I think it's at least worth mentioning, and it puts a little more of a focus on who should concentrate on. I think I might replace Xenovent with Lys as far as my prime concentrated individuals go, though I know that we kind of bullied on Lys when she played last.

    You do realize that all games of mafia on this site have the roles randomly handed out (with a few rare exceptions)? Like Don wasn't given a role because she fit it best or asked for something. You need to let go of this logic because it is bullshit, at best.

    Moonlight Seer wrote:

    @Monika do you think it's better to lurk, or respond to all that's possible? I feel like the former is suspicious af, even if the latter gets you on the spotlight. We proooobably want to keep an eye on the lurkers so :B
    I know you asked this to Monika, but I feel like providing an answer regardless:

    You can't really say one is better than the other. They both have their own merits in the game. The real question is when should you be using each one? It is beneficial to lay low sometimes as both town and mafia. As for responding/posting lots, even if it gets you killed it will give the town plenty of info to work off of based on interactions with everyone, you just have to know when to make yourself a target.

    Serenity wrote:

    Mordred wrote:

    Don't pick your reads at random.I get if you trust your gut reads but with nothing to go on (Xenovent's only crime was not checking in, which I was also guilty of until this post) all this does is make you look suspicious.
    Yeah. Apparently, I look more innocent when I'm Mafia than when I'm town, probably due to the fact that I have no idea who anyone is, so I'm really sorry if I come off as scummy. I think that, when someone is Mafia, and they know who is town and who is Mafia, then they could more easily come off as innocent, which is why I noted that we should watch out for the never players. idk if we should lynch a never player on the first day, but I'd closely analyze them. I'm noting what I've said here, and what you're saying here, though, especially for any future game. I don't want actual townies to role claim in fear of any incite on who the cop may be.
    Just.... what? Like all of this is completely redundant. Like, I just, don't even know why this is even here.... other then the fact that you think because you had success as mafia your first game that any new player will follow in your footsteps?

    Serenity wrote:

    Yes, yes. I know.
    To be honest, I think we should judge who's Mafia on who can keep an act well enough.

    Serenity wrote:

    And I know the gambler's fallacy is a thing, but really I still don't have all that much to go off of here. And I do think that, if someone is one side of the coin like three times in a row, then it would be more likely that they'd be the other side of the coin next time. Of course, in terms of scientific theory, for each individual turn, they always have half or a third of a chance. Not denying the fallacies here, but I am noting the increased likelihood over time.
    Again, refer to my earlier post that any logic you try to bring to roles being handed out in mafia is a complete waste of time and you need to just drop that reasoning.

    Serenity wrote:

    Which is exactly why we should keep a close eye on the never players. We could give them an inch, and then they'd take a mile, assuming at least one of them is Mafia. Considering there's like four never players, I think there should be like one Mafia member among them.
    Also again, where is the proof? Please show me where exactly there is proof that any of the new players in this game are mafia? You show me the proof and I will listen, but this is just pure speculation and you aren't contributing anything of value with posts like these.



    Alright. Tirade over.

    Hi guys. Again, sorry for the late check in. I really don't like Serenity's playing this game already and I can see why people are voting for her. Unless she changes and actually starts making proper posts, I will likely vote for her.

    HOWEVER, I do not want to place a vote just yet as there is still time left and I'd like to see some more discussion.

    @Bolero of Fire - nice to see you back! Am I reading correctly that you have seen the errors of your "no lynch Day 1" policy? Have you finally seen the light?

    @Orion - first things first - how is Dragonball FighterZ? Less importantly, what are you thoughts on Serenity so far? How about on Lysis and all of their pressure voting?

    @Sólsetur - what are your feelings on the allegations that you are scum? I feel that they are unwarranted myself. Would you consider forming a vote block with me?


    Seriously though, I will be back with some more questions and what not soon (still at work but I wanted to give you guys something for now until things calm down a bit here).


    Sig & Avvy by Lady Sunshine, the most wonderful girl in the world
  • Don Saltine wrote:

    @Serenity First time players are barred from being lynched Day One.

    I'm not saying we should be afraid to interrogate new players, but to do so out of the gate is a little iffy to me.
    Yeah, I wasn't trying to say that we should lynch first time players. I'm well aware of that rule, but as I mentioned, we should heavily survey them.

    What do you have against interrogating new players? Do you perhaps know which never player is Mafia? Those aren't very good questions, as they side in my favor, and make you look bad, but I am suspicious of the possible underlying tones of this quote, along with the increased likelihood that you may be Mafia.


    I know that there are certain rules on how to play this game, but I believe that the way for the town to truly win is for actual townies to think outside of the box. The Mafia can take the rules that townies believe are fullproof, and then turn them on their head.

    Monika wrote:

    There is no such thing as increased likelihood over time; the fact that you say this means you are denying the fallacy. When a coin comes up heads 3 times there is still a 50% chance of heads next time. It is ridiculous to accuse someone of being scum or not scum based on what roles they have played recently.
    Again, I know, but I feel like the town guidelines on who is scum and who isn't could be easily manipulated. I have a hard time trusting certain "rules," because I know that the Mafia could abide by them, and then stab all of the townies in the back in the end. I don't want to see the town lose again. A continuously gullible town would make this game less fun.

    Monika wrote:

    This isn't a read list. That much is obvious. It's a list that any player could easily trace back to its source and, by merely saying its a read list, gives you a reason to jump on a big wagon at the end of the day because "he's on my read list". And the fact that you are even more certain about there being scum on that read list is just another cop-out. When some scum on this list dies later in the game, you, as scum, are gonna raise you hand and say "I knew it! He was on my read list!"
    Okay, I'm not going to pretend I know what I'm talking about when I talked about read lists. Also, you're putting me me in a corner with this statement. How is it totally infallible to assume that someone in a list of four is Mafia? Are you trying to protect a Mafia member among that list?

    Monika wrote:

    You could realize the fact that you are nowhere near dying, save the fact that I now have my crosshairs set on you ad infinitum. If anything, you should be giving your reasons to live now that there's a genuine vote on you rather than when you're merely having questions thrown your way.
    I know I shouldn't die day 1. I'm trying to show as much as I can that I'm town without doing any role claiming crap. It's really coming off like you want me to role claim.

    Monika wrote:

    Then it's official.

    No boys allowed.

    Unless they have absolutely 0 chill.
    I don't know what this chill thing means, but aren't you actually a boy, English? :o
  • Serenity wrote:

    Monika wrote:

    This isn't a read list. That much is obvious. It's a list that any player could easily trace back to its source and, by merely saying its a read list, gives you a reason to jump on a big wagon at the end of the day because "he's on my read list". And the fact that you are even more certain about there being scum on that read list is just another cop-out. When some scum on this list dies later in the game, you, as scum, are gonna raise you hand and say "I knew it! He was on my read list!"
    Okay, I'm not going to pretend I know what I'm talking about when I talked about read lists. Also, you're putting me me in a corner with this statement. How is it totally infallible to assume that someone in a list of four is Mafia? Are you trying to protect a Mafia member among that list?
    The problem here is that you give no reason for those 4 you listed. No one is saying they CAN'T be mafia, but unless you have reason or proof to suspect them then all you're doing is blowing smoke and wasting time.

    You can't just say "I believe that of these 4 completely random people, at least one of them HAS to be mafia" then expect the rest of us to just be like "Ya, you know what? One of them must be mafia! It makes perfect sense!".

    Give us some reasons to believe these claims then we'll talk.


    Sig & Avvy by Lady Sunshine, the most wonderful girl in the world
  • @Dark Link Reigns yeah I have a little bit of an ego, but I've tried my best to not let that cloud my judgment. I keep talking about manipulate tactics, because it's something that the Mafia fucking uses. I don't know what proof you need to know this, unless you're Mafia yourself, and are just bullshiting to make me look worse.

    This rule that a townie has to die to help the town is dumb imo I feel like it's just leads to passiveness to the Mafia manipulating the town.

    Dark Link Reigns wrote:

    Also again, where is the proof? Please show me where exactly there is proof that any of the new players in this game are mafia? You show me the proof and I will listen, but this is just pure speculation and you aren't contributing anything of value with posts like these.
    I don't have any proof, but assuming that none of the first time newbs are town is just going to leave a hole for the Mafia to fill.


    Monika wrote:

    DLR your tirade made me swoon. I was so ready to let you into the No Chill Squad but you didn't even vote for Serenity after everything you said. </3
    Mob mentality tactics are VERY USEFUL for Mafia. Letting the town mob on an easier target, only for the town to shoot themselves in the leg as a result.