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    How do you feel about the new standard for future Zelda games?
    • When asked by Famitsu whether Zelda games will continue to use the unique of Breath of the Wild, Aonuma teased that we’d see more open-world Zelda in the future.

      “I think that, in the future, open air games will be the standard for Zelda,” Aonuma said.

      Are you happy with this?

      The reason why I'm asking this is because I've seen a lot of fans split on liking it. Some say it's fresh, and others think it has drifted too far from the traditional formula.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by LegendaryHeroOfTime ().

    • gamtos wrote:

      I'm on the fence. BOTW is interesting but I'm curious to see how they'll make a sequel that won't feel like it could have been DLC3.
      Different world, enemies, story, dungeons, and items. Same differences as usual.

      To be slightly more ambitious, I'd suggest they move away from the nature/survival elements of BotW and towards more otherworldly elements. Less humanoid enemies, more permanent and unique items, stranger landscapes and architecture, and less focus on things like dressing for the right weather and stocking food. Hopefully larger and better dungeons, too.
      [pitch meeting] Okay so it's a ton of dogs. Dalmatians. 100 of 'em. I call it "100 Dalmatians." [idea man pipes in] Let's think bigger

      - Ristolable
    • The only thing that kind of sucks with this 100 % open world formula is that the story plus potential interesting characters will take a backseat, which I am not a big fan of. BotW is fine as it is, but I don't think I always want it that way. I do think though that the next game will be a bit different. I think BotW was a one big experiment for the developers, so the next one will hopefully be a bit more complex in its structure, but still keep the "open air"-feel.

      The memories-design was a solution and a compromise this time around in regards to the storytelling, but they can't just reuse that design everytime from now on, so they have to do something different next time if they even want to keep a basic storyline like the one BotW had thanks to the memories.

      Though I think that they could have done so much more with the memories, it was a wasted opportunity. Would have been amazing if there were lengthy gameplay-segments within each memory where it could have been far more linear in its structure with a lot of interactions, story- and character-development. Instead we got couple of minutes of movie clips for each memory.
    • I thoroughly enjoyed Breath of the Wild. Just as was promised, it completely rethought the conventions of Zelda, and as a result we got a game that will go down in history as one of the greats. There were many areas in which BoTW excelled, the sense of exploration being the prime example, and I'd love to see many of BoTW's features return in the future. However, with that said, I still think there were a lot of areas where Nintendo went too far.

      When Nintendo invests in something, they really invest in it. Whether it's motion control gimmicks like in SS, touch control gimmicks like Phantom Hourglass, or the nonlinearity gimmick of ALBW, Nintendo puts everything they have into an idea once they settle on it. The problem is, this dedication to a gimmick is often to the detriment of the user experience. Breath of the Wild's gimmick was 'rethinking the conventions of Zelda', and although the game was a wild success, it nevertheless suffered as a result.

      I loved BoTW, but in many ways, it quite simply didn't feel like a Zelda game. Probably the biggest way that BoTW failed to feel like Zelda was in its dungeons. The dungeons in BoTW were incredibly disappointing. Most of the good ideas were scattered among the shrines, and as a result, the dungeons were incredibly lacklustre. When one thinks of Zelda, the dungeons are one of the first things that come to mind, but the dungeons in BoTW were an afterthought, and the game suffered as a result. So, that is the largest innovation BoTW that I never want to see again. I love dungeons, and I want them to be a focus of BoTW's sequel. If that requires getting rid of the puzzles in shrines, so be it. Skyward Sword had, in my opinion, the greatest dungeons in the 3D series, whilst BoTW had the worst. The drop in quality was stark to say the least.

      The second largest way that BoTW departured from Zelda conventions was the nonlinearity. The concept of a departure from nonlinearity is a good one: I loved Skyward Sword, but its linearity was a massive problem. However, I think BoTW went too far in the opposite direction. BoTW offered very little sense of progression. The plot amounted to little more than collecting irrelevant memories, and the dungeons were an afterthought. The result was a game that had no sense of progress or momentum. The game started off very difficult, and ended up extremely easy, because the nonlinearity meant there was little to no difficulty curve. Further, the game's obsession with nonlinearity led to the removal of a staple of the Zelda series: dungeon items. Besides temples, the thing I missed the most in BoTW was the dungeon items.

      BoTW offered four runes, three of which you got right from the start of the game (I'm counting the bombs as one rune). This pales in comparison to the items received in *any* other Zelda title, and the result is a hell of a lot of missed potential. I loved exploring the overworld, but I'd have loved it even more if there was a sense of progression, if I could revisit old areas with my cool new trinket to do fun new things. This is the inevitable consequence of Nintendo's strive for nonlinearity: a gutting of content. We were deprived of lots of fun and interesting items because it would override the 'open air' design philosophy, and the game felt fundamentally un-zelda-like as a result. As far as I see it, the only solution to this problem is a reintroduction of linearity. Certainly not to the extent of Skyward Sword, but in order for Zelda to be Zelda, a certain level of linearity is required.

      This obsession with nonlinearity wasn't just to the detriment of the gameplay, it was to the detriment of the plot too. By enforcing such strict nonlinearity, the story was massively constricted, being consigned to a mere collection of memories. This made the feelings of a lack of progress in BoTW even more stark, and made me less emotionally invested in the game and its narrative.

      tl;dr - restore the focus on temples and temple items, and restore a portion of linearity in order to facilitate the difficulty curve, plot, and sense of progression. Keep the rest of BoTW's features.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by valonqar ().

    • valonqar wrote:

      Probably the biggest way that BoTW failed to feel like Zelda was in its dungeons. The dungeons in BoTW were incredibly disappointing. Most of the good ideas were scattered among the shrines, and as a result, the dungeons were incredibly lacklustre.
      I think the shrines are the heirs of classic-Zelda-style dungeons. The Divine Beasts are a novel, clever idea and well-designed in my opinion, but they're better appreciated if they're looked at as they're own thing. Shines get more of the classic Zelda puzzles, and with 120 of them, even small, they add up to a significant amount of dungeon content.
      Goddess of the Sands

      Map of Thyphlo Ruins

      Forest Architects

      If you have Amiibo Tap: Nintendo's Greatest Bits on Wii U, you can reset which games your amiibo unlock by deleting the game and then redownloading it.
    • As for the open-world route, I'm pretty indifferent to it. I'd never played an open-world game prior to Breath of the Wild. Having not really any experience with that style, I can see it can fit the adventure and mystery of the Zelda series. The playstyle felt off to me at first. The gameplay and mechanics didn't seem like something that would feel genuinely Zelda, but Breath of the Wild does manage to preserve the Zelda feel somehow. I am pretty impressed with that.

      However, I think more traditional-style dungeons are needed. I liked the way Hyrule Castle was done. It was a very good blend of a traditional dungeon exploration, but with the cohesive openness of Breath of the Wild's overworld. I'm not even too huge on dungeons and there's a certain point where their length becomes completely superfluous and choresome--read: Twilight Princess, so the interesting approach with Hyrule Castle could be something I would be ok with seeing again. You can cut through to the end/boss or just kind of wander aimlessly for awhile.

      My only concern is how much it'll slow down development. Nintendo made a mistake of showing off this game far too soon in its development, and kept postponing its release. If they want to keep with the open world approach, I fear we'll be another five years without a major Zelda release, or we'll be gypped in quality again. And since Breath of the Wild wasn't particularly strong in the story department, even by Zelda's shaky standards, who knows about the future of the writing for the games, if they focus too much on the world design.

      ...But until you're broken, you don't know what you're made of.

    • I'm actually happy they will be going with a more open world design, because I think it was long overdue. This game is not something new at all, Zelda 1 actually did this and so it's more of a return to 'form.' Some people will say 'Oh this game isn't Zeldalike' but then I think 'Well, what is Zelda then? Formulaic plots? Linearity? Rote dungeons that never change their Forest/Wind/Shadow themes, and little kid Link?

      I think what was long missing was the sense of exploration and discovery. Some people might think 'Oh we need it to be more linear to help structure the story' and I say 'No it doesn't.' Talking to NCPs, learning the backstory of a place by exploring it (and finding clues left behind) and having extended dialogue that changes after you do something important and something major happens, and seeing permanent changes in the land, people and structures to make you feel like you are affecting the eorld, not just merely 'existing' within it.

      I think the main flaw was that there wasn't enough people tied to the main events happening in the game. Sure you have the main characters, but it would have been nice having someone else commenting on being uneasy at seeing the evil goo now swirling around the castle or having Robbie or Purah want to study the Malice because, well, Science. Plus more explanation by the Gerudo on the possible history of Ganon, either by Link winning their trust (and them divulging more of their history) or by Link going to ancient Shiekah ruins and finding out from records some of his history (like exploring a booby-trapped chamber a.k.a a dungeon for them.) It would add logical dungeons (since I'm not opposed to dungeons) as they just need to change them up and give a good reason why this place full of booby traps is just sitting here.
    • I like the food and weapon systems in BotW. I also love the interactive terrain. Definitely want to see those return.

      My two big issues I want to see addressed are:

      1. I want to see some weapon shops in the next game. They were an obvious component that was puzzlingly left out, I guess because you can already find weapons laying about or in enemies' hands. Personally, I would have kept the free weapons to weaker common items like Brooms, Ladles, and Pitchforks while saving the expensive swords and other high-quality weapons for shops.
      2. I would rather they get rid of the "no men in Gerudo Town" thing in the next game. Without launching into a lengthy rant, I personally feel a little offended about needless sexism and forced crossdressing (in so far as required to 100% the game). That kinda tainted Gerudo Town for me, and I'd been looking forward to the Gerudos' return for a long time.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Miles ().

    • gamtos wrote:

      It's hard to hold Gerudo town by our standards of sexism considering it's a race where men are a biological anomaly.
      Perhaps, but I still fail to see the justification in turning away a merchant with perfectly good wares just because he was born male instead of female. What the heck would they think of trans?

      Not to mention they have to have had other kings since Ganondorf, hopefully most of which have turned out better than he did, which makes the law look hypocritical since the King would by definition be breaking it otherwise. Shoot, even back in OoT the Gerudo relax their attitudes towards men after seeing Link. Why is the "no men" law even a thing? What did it contribute to the game? Because from where I'm sitting, it just makes visiting what should be my favorite town in the game more of a chore than need be. I was hoping the Gerudo would build the Hyrulean equivalent of Las Vegas. Instead we got Middle Eastern Themiscyra.
    • I'lI keep this short. I did find myself impressed and hooked on the game in the beginning, for weeks even, but I do miss some things from the older games. I feel like they went a tad too far and threw out the baby with the bath water, and that they should add a little of the old formula to the mix. I agree with most criticisms of the game, and as plenty have said, BotW was a good start and I hope the next game isn't more of the same.

      Basically, BotW is open world and Zelda, but I want the Zelda part to be a little more dominant in that combination.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by ich Will ().

    • BOTW was honestly better than I anticipated for Nintendo's first open world game.
      I find myself still enjoying it after hundreds of hours into a loaded game.
      I do agree that they can do WAY better with the dungeons next time. I feel we are used to dungeons in different areas of a game rather than within the Divine Beasts.
      Can you imagine a Forest Temple in BOTW? That would be incredible.
      I have faith in Nintendo to execute the dungeons better next time. (and the story line...I felt the ending could have been more fulfilling.)

      The formula I support, maybe not for every upcoming game but a blend of both can make a Zelda game feel new but on track.
      "Being a soldier is more than Courage.
      It's sacrificing yourself for something greater than yourself."