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    • Re: The question of copying and delayed triggers.

      If I put a hellspark elemental into play from hand, give it +1/+1 and then attack into a permeating mass the elemental becomes a permeating mass and doesn't die at end of turn.

      But if I unearth a hellspark, give it +1/+1, and then attack into a permeating mass the elemental becomes a permeating mass and then gets exiled at end of turn.

      Becoming a copy of permeating mass overwrites all the text on the card - both the first "sacrifice at EOT" text and the unearth text - but it doesn't do anything about the delayed trigger which was set up when the unearth ability was played: that trigger exists independently of the text on the hellspark.

      It is true that figuring out how multiple effects modifying a permanent interact in magic can be tough. Most new players intuitively assume that the chronological order in which the effects are applied matters, when it almost never does. If I have an aquameoba in play I can cast dive down to make it a 1/6 and then switch power and toughness to make it a 6/1... but I can also switch power and toughness to make it a 3/1 and then cast dive down and it still becomes a 6/1.

      I can never make a 3/4, no matter how I try. All P/T changing effects are applied before any P/T switching effects when determining the current state of a card, regardless of the order in which they were created.

      ---

      Re: Ridiculous game restarting shenanigans

      Definitely some interesting coding underlying all this delightful bullshit. It's weird that the game is even storing the information necessary to make this work. Is chaos theory a playable card outside of the PVE?

      ---

      Glad you're having fun ES! I do hope you'll try drafting one day though (a) because it's a good way to get a lot better a deckbuilding and (b) as I play more and more digital card games I realize that finely crafted draft environments that make full use of a set's card pool are MTG's competitive advantage in the current market. No other game I've played can do limited play nearly as well and I think that's nifty.

      Commander deck looks like a ton of fun. I definitely prefer the tribal approach to a full-on Voltron for Traft; just a lot more enjoyable for you and everyone else. Just so you know though lingering souls has W/B color identity so it's technically illegal in W/U.

      ---

      Speaking of Draft, did my first one in Arena yesterday. Between pulls and prizes I did very well, picking up both Lyra and Belzenlok, two Duals (18 to go >>), and a good helping of knights including two Arvad. After a week of relatively slow collection building it was a huge leap forward and feels pretty good. Progress is certainly slow in the beta, but to some degree that just makes it sweeter.
      ~~~
      Although postsocratics like St. Augustine and Judith Butler explored a diverse set of ethical and metaphysical ideas, their unifying feature as a movement was a principled refusal to speculate upon which of the four elements the world was made out of.
      ~~~


      boxes is the best human and I am going to get her a kitten or 2 kittens

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Foo ().

    • Foo wrote:

      Re: The question of copying and delayed triggers.

      If I put a hellspark elemental into play from hand, give it +1/+1 and then attack into a permeating mass the elemental becomes a permeating mass and doesn't die at end of turn.

      But if I unearth a hellspark, give it +1/+1, and then attack into a permeating mass the elemental becomes a permeating mass and then gets exiled at end of turn.

      Becoming a copy of permeating mass overwrites all the text on the card - both the first "sacrifice at EOT" text and the unearth text - but it doesn't do anything about the delayed trigger which was set up when the unearth ability was played: that trigger exists independently of the text on the ball lightning.

      It is true that figuring out how multiple effects modifying a permanent interact in magic. Most new players intuitively assume that the chronological order in which the effects are applied matters, when it almost never does. If I have an aquameoba in play I can cast dive down to make it a 1/6 and then switch power and toughness to make it a 6/1... but I can also switch power and toughness to make it a 3/1 and then cast dive down and it still becomes a 6/1.

      I can never make a 3/4, no matter how I try. All P/T changing effects are applied before any P/T switching effects when determining the current state of a card, regardless of the order in which they were applied.
      That second last paragraph especially seems weird. For reference, here is FoW's CR text regarding copying:

      Display Spoiler
      1017. Copy/Become a Copy
      1017.1. "To copy" a card or an ability is to make an object in the same zone of the card or the ability. It always makes the same object without any continuous effects on them.
      1017.1a. If the copied object is a card, it makes a pseudo-card with the same information. A pseudo-card is not a physical card, but treated as a card in that zone. If the copy moves out of the zone, for any reason outside being put into play, it ceases to exist.
      1017.1b. If the copied object is an ability in the chase area, put the same ability into that zone.
      1017.1c. If a player made any choice for the copied object, the copy also has the same choice.
      1017.1d. If an object being copied is not in the area it was in, the copy is not made.

      1017.2. If a card " becomes a copy" of another, it becomes the original card. It always makes the same object without any continuous effects on them. This is a continuous effects that change information.

      1017.3. If a card is to copy a card and then indicated to play the copy, make a pseudo-copy in the same zone with the same information and then play that pseudo-copy. If the copy enters the chase area through being played, it does not cease to exist.
      1017.3a. If for any reason, that copy would be removed from the chase, it ceases to exist.
      1017.3b. If for any reason, that copy would not enter play, it ceases to exist.


      There are probably some other sections of the CR which reference copies, but this is at least the bulk of it.
    • An idea occurred to me, and I was wondering whether an existing game had already done it.

      The concept envisages a sort of a mix between Magic(/FoW) and Pokemon, as far as resource management goes, wherein creatures are played upon the land/resources beneath them, to whatever degree they require. These resources can't be shared (unless an effect allows it) until the creature currently sitting on it is removed, and potentially other permanent types would require the resources as well. On the other hand, single-use spells and certain abilities could use any resource for their power (within type requirements), regardless of whether anything was currently using it. Or maybe some would even require a creature or other permanent to be using it.

      ...Is there any game like this, whether it be a CCG or (as I realized while writing) potentially a board game?

      .

      I first devised this when it at some point occurred to me that MtG or FoW could actually be converted to this style fairly easily. Whatever mana you use to play a permanent would become... attached to it, so to speak, until the permanent was removed. Should the mana source be removed, then you could fill something into the gap during that turn, but during upkeep (or in FoW at some other point during the starting phases of a turn) you'd be required to sacrifice the permanent if it doesn't have enough land. The flow of either game would change considerably of course though, hence why I wondered whether any game had already been made with this system.
    • Turn 1 stasis and you're there :P

      As originally envisioned, Magic was going to have permanents that permanently "consumed" the man used to cast them in the form of upkeep costs. That's why the step was named "upkeep" originally: it was to be used for the abilities on cards like Force of Nature (notably, on all the alpha cards with these kinds of costs, you only pay the colored portion of the mana cost in upkeep).

      Legends has some pure examples of what you're looking for in cards like Cosmic Horror and we get a twist on the idea in Ice Age with cumulative upkeekp where the cards are actually consuming more and more of your resources overtime until you inevitably can't maintain them.

      Mostly, a card with an upkeep cost could never be balanced against a card without and the nature of the upkeep step slowly moved away from paying recurring costs and towards what it is today (read: arguably useless). Echo got its chance, a little later in the 90s, but after 2000 (and excluding the nostalgia-based Cold Snap and Time Spiral) upkeep costs for permanents that permanently tie up mana show up pretty exclusively as debuffs.

      ---

      It would be an interesting game. As magic (and I imagine FoW) currently exist, it's a change that would hugely favour control but that could be changed by nerfing spells across the board. After those obviously changes it would be interesting to see what comes next. Like... elements like +1/+1 counters, which augment permanents away from "fair" maintenance costs, might need to be incredibly reigned in. Leaves the battlefield triggers would probably become as important as enter the battlefield triggers currently are, because a creature with an exit trigger is just a spell if you want it to be.
      ~~~
      Although postsocratics like St. Augustine and Judith Butler explored a diverse set of ethical and metaphysical ideas, their unifying feature as a movement was a principled refusal to speculate upon which of the four elements the world was made out of.
      ~~~


      boxes is the best human and I am going to get her a kitten or 2 kittens
    • Heh. Yeah, those are pretty close. I even considered as part of the idea (when I was still imagining it as a variant MtG/FoW mode) that only the colored mana would need to be used as a resource. I also noticed the extra strength non-permanents would have, since they don't hog resources, but rather just use them. This one could probably be reigned in a bit by requiring the costs to be paid entirely by one creature, unless an effect allows for multiple.
    • About to hit the two week mark in Arena. Just hit gold as well.

      It's unfortunate, but I already basically feel like I'm "done" the game. I'm in a position very similar to the one I was in when I felt I was "done" Duels or "done" Shadowverse - I've built deck which executes its concept as well as I can expect and can be trusted to make slow, steady progress in the grind for more and more shit.

      It's not a T1 deck, sure, but it would take two months of playing with this deck - making few to no changes along the way - before I could build a T1 deck and that process doesn't sound like a tremendous load of fun. Maybe if I thought I had a ton to learn from the game the way I felt I had a ton to learn from Gwent but I just don't :/

      Plus, I just like the constructed format way less than the Duels constructed format.

      I'll stick around for a while for the drafts if nothing else. And for Brawl, when it gets support. But overall... meh
      ~~~
      Although postsocratics like St. Augustine and Judith Butler explored a diverse set of ethical and metaphysical ideas, their unifying feature as a movement was a principled refusal to speculate upon which of the four elements the world was made out of.
      ~~~


      boxes is the best human and I am going to get her a kitten or 2 kittens

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Foo ().

    • Re: Spirit deck

      I was originally gonna do Saprolings- Ghave with Dominaria Saprolings and others. But right before I committed and started buying the pieces, Tendershoot Dryad got bought out and spiked in price. I was too bitter and decided to make something else instead. =p

      Drogskol Cavalry was what initially got me into Spirits. I loved the alt art from the intro pack, I mean I love ghost horsies. Plus the rest of the spirits just happened to remind me of this guy.

      The thing that finally pushed me over the edge to make a Spirit Commander deck was the seeing the alternate art for Niblis of Frost. I've been watching that miniseries the Terror every week so a frozen ghost skeleton really appealed to me.



      Then I just went from there.

      I made some quick edits based off suggestions from the EDH reddit to make the deck run a bit more smoothly since I posted last. Namely a a tiny bit more land and some awesome card named Gift of Estates to make sure I have enough land to get off the ground. I added in two more Auras (Ethereal Armor and Spectral Flight) since someone pointed out that it needed to be focused a *tiny* bit more on powering Traft up, otherwise I wouldn't have power to make any lasting impact. One last addition was Sphere of Safety, which fit perfectly with the flavor and mechanics of my deck.

      tappedout.net/mtg-decks/trafts-lost-army/

      (also the deck page has a brief into on how the deck works now)
      =]

      I'm most happy that the deck turned out so fun. Even though its a pillowfort and hard to wear down, it doesn't completely lock down the game for everyone else. I also look forward to using Spirit Bonds as a means of politicking.
      The maybeboard contains some hate cards that someone suggested that I probably won't ever use. Unlike the cards I'm currently using, the Theros Spirits just work on hindering everyone from making their plays properly, not really discourage players from attacking me specifically.

      Can't wait to use it! :gimli:

      The post was edited 1 time, last by EmptyStar ().

    • Hey, hi, hello.

      Now I need a deck box. Any tips? It needs to fit 100 cards (sleeved with Ultra Pro Eclipse Mattes), 18 tokens, 2 alternate arts for my commander (am I feeling contemplative Traft this time? Heroic Traft, standing on the coast? Duty-bound and stoic Traft?) , and 2 dice.


      I've been looking into the Shadows over Innistrad Gift Box. It's spooky.




      Very on brand.


      (the inside)


      But then I found this:



      Shadow Over innistrad fat pack box. This is half the price, has the art that I love, and is a better fit for one deck. Will it fit my sleeved cards?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by EmptyStar ().

    • All of my EDH decks are in fat pack boxes. They fit 2 sleeved 100 card decks + accessories, and are much easier to carry around then something like the gift box would be.
      ~~~
      Although postsocratics like St. Augustine and Judith Butler explored a diverse set of ethical and metaphysical ideas, their unifying feature as a movement was a principled refusal to speculate upon which of the four elements the world was made out of.
      ~~~


      boxes is the best human and I am going to get her a kitten or 2 kittens
    • Now here's a fun one...



      To put that list into bullets:
      • Put four [+100/+100] counters on target resonator you control.
      • Put two [400/400] wind Spirit resonator tokens with (Flying) into the field.
      • Recover up to three target magic stones.
      • Gain 1000 life.
      • Draw two cards.
      • This card deals 800 damage to target J/resonator.
      For context regarding the known auras:
      • Three are Light, and each cost one Light. (prevent 800 damage to target J/res or yourself, or draw a card; rest target J/res; recover target J/res)
      • One is Fire, and costs one Fire. (target res gains Swiftness)
      • One is Water, and costs one Water and two anything. (800 or 1200 damage at target J/res, depending on the weather.)
      • One is Wind, and costs one Wind and one anything. (put three chants from deck to grave. The only one so far which isn't Quickcast)
    • Interesting

      Modal cards are always even better than they look, and this looks nutty, but I'm not 100% a fan of the design. Slightly stronger auras and slightly weaker abilities on the ruler would, I think, have been a better direction. As it stands this seems too parasitic: you never play the ruler without the auras and you never play the auras without the ruler.

      Still, there are a lot of interesting questions here. You don't want to play even one more of those (terrible looking) auras then you have to so the project of shaving down your aura count as low as it can possibly go and still afford you a reliable turn 4 imperishable ruler will be a fun one.

      But what does the deck look like? The costs on the ruler seem aggro, but you can't put together a format-defining aggro plan when you're spending turns 1-3 making sure your graveyard is in order. Combo then? The aura package itself certainly functions like a set of combo pieces, but the pay-off from the ruler - though impressive - I don't think is enough that you can justify building an entire deck around just setting it up with no other component to the plan.

      Midrange? Perhaps. I worry the fact that you're going to end up drawing shitty auras at least *some* of the time is a very, very serious downside to a deck trying to play the attrition game.

      I would personally start with a deck that played as thin a suite of auras as initially sensible - maybe a playset of the wind ones and some small mix of the water and the light one that cantrips - and then just for value around that but I don't think that'll play. I think you'll eventually move in on something like the slowest fuckin control deck in the format with playsets of the water and wind auras that just incidentally ends up with three-aura sets in the yard twice a game, certainly not on turns 4 and 7 or anything but eventually.

      Hmmm... Would love to know how this one works out.
      ~~~
      Although postsocratics like St. Augustine and Judith Butler explored a diverse set of ethical and metaphysical ideas, their unifying feature as a movement was a principled refusal to speculate upon which of the four elements the world was made out of.
      ~~~


      boxes is the best human and I am going to get her a kitten or 2 kittens

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Foo ().

    • Fair. Extra context on the auras:

      Recover target J/res is good; recovering rulers on command (regardless of timing) is almost never done; the last time we saw it it was a cantrip with a side-effect of preventing the targeted J/resonator from attacking (/again) that turn. The time before that was on a 2-cost ability on a 3-cost regalia (like an addition but not one).

      Rest target J/res is okay. Resting a J-ruler for this cheap is rare, although doing it for 2-3 is not uncommon.

      Preventing 800 damage is... easier in Fire. (Well, maybe not 800 exactly, but preventing directed damage in general. Preventing all damage is also done in Light, so this numerical prevention is weird.)

      The fire one is a direct downgrade of at least two other cards from the past year, when ignoring the aura bit.

      I think the Water one might see some play even outside of Ciel decks; Water has almost no response to J-rulers before this, outside of I think one "rest target J/resonator" card and a couple "rest all entities" cards. And 1200 just happens to be a common (high-end) J-ruler DEF...

      Wind will see play in this deck definitely, and maybe in a deck with a ruler who removes certain cards from their own grave in order to ramp.
    • Confirmation today that the last Magic set of 2018 and the first two of 2019 will constitute a Ravnica block. Fall 2018 is "Guilds of Ravnica" (featuring Selesnya, Boros, Golgari, Izzet Dimir), Winter 2019 is "Ravnica Allegiance" (starring Azorius, Rakdos, Gruul, Simic, Orzhov). Spring 2019 is set on Ravnica, but not a traditional guild-driven Rav set, instead it's wrapping up the gatewatch storyline.

      (And hopefully the current macro-storyline altogether. We're overdue for a big time jump; it's been 11 years with the current setting >>)

      Not much news otherwise. Just some concept art.
      ~~~
      Although postsocratics like St. Augustine and Judith Butler explored a diverse set of ethical and metaphysical ideas, their unifying feature as a movement was a principled refusal to speculate upon which of the four elements the world was made out of.
      ~~~


      boxes is the best human and I am going to get her a kitten or 2 kittens

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Foo ().

    • Gwent was balance-patched yesterday. Ostensibly, this is the last change to the meta from on high for the next four months. My personal first impressions (echoing a lot of what I've seen online) are pretty dour: two of the meta's most prominent decks - the coinflip abuse pair of Brouver and Henselt - were nerfed into oblivion while a small number of other T1 decks (most notably the SK Greatswords deck I took to GM) were left untouched.

      I recognize that the play pattern of coinflip abuse was widely considered unfun (which I thought was a silly assessment but meh) but I have to imagine it's even *less* fun to shrink an already stale metagame down to an even smaller collection of competitive decks. One of the game's five factions - NR - may now be completely unplayable at the serious competitive level which is a *lot* to give up considering the current tournament structure.

      ---

      I've come back around to quite enjoying Arena, mostly by just deciding to forget about the meta-level collection building and rank-advancement game entirely and to just enjoy the individual games I get by drafting and throwing jank together. In the actual object level play MTG is still just the most interesting game on the market so this works... but I definitely do miss the feeling of building to something over time. Hope WotC can figure this out :/

      ~~~
      Although postsocratics like St. Augustine and Judith Butler explored a diverse set of ethical and metaphysical ideas, their unifying feature as a movement was a principled refusal to speculate upon which of the four elements the world was made out of.
      ~~~


      boxes is the best human and I am going to get her a kitten or 2 kittens
    • Yeeeeah, I'm going to try and come back for a bit this upcoming month just to get the avatar I want, but its so hard to be excited. A few other tweaks outside of what you mentioned could move the needle a bit (the change to Olgierd has potential for interesting consume deck for example) but like...barely. v_v

      I...have literally no idea why they changed Winch except to straight-up ditch create, but I actually liked the card....it was a power move that took set-up, luck, AND good card draws to be truly devastating (either shuffling Winch'd units back into deck with Nenneke or using a gold to res one for the pull) and could still be countered with removal if you had enough to deny the huge pull. Eh.

      Slave driver change could be interesting-ish I guess, good damage and sets up a good unit to Vilgefortz or could force something into the graveyard on a frosted row for ointment. But mostly just eh. Alchemy is essentially the same but rather than Slave driver it'll be running Slave Infantry for bodies. Eh. Eh. Eh.

      More swap in Scoia'tael...eh. EH. Wardancer change is...fine. EH. EH. EH.


    • This card is less interesting than most of the ones I've posted, I feel, but the actually interesting cards this week are ones I want to get opinions on once the company makes smaller versions of them (only partially because I'm lazy >_>).

      Context: In case it has been forgotten, when an attack is declared, the attacking player chooses what to attack, which is usually either the opposing player or rested J/resonators. This card would only work when the player is directly attacked.
    • In modern limited magic "Destroy target attacking creature" is valued at 3 mana at common, 2 at uncommon. With the lifegain rider it *has* been printed at 4, but that was a long time ago and the same card at uncommon could almost certainly be printed at 3 today.

      I expect FoW to be generally lower to the ground than Magic but even still this seems hyper efficient at 2 and I would blind guess this is the best light uncommon in the draft format, for sure.

      For constructed, uh.... hmmm. I mean, this thing has legs against aggro for sure but it's an absolutely dead card against control and a swath of combo. It can probably avail itself against tempo and midrange a reasonable fraction of the time... but it's kind of clunky on the play? I guess if you assume your third turn stone is coming into play rested then you overcome some of that clumsiness. Maybe this is better the worse your mana is?

      Overall I imagine this bounces back and forth between deck depending on MU and play order.
      ~~~
      Although postsocratics like St. Augustine and Judith Butler explored a diverse set of ethical and metaphysical ideas, their unifying feature as a movement was a principled refusal to speculate upon which of the four elements the world was made out of.
      ~~~


      boxes is the best human and I am going to get her a kitten or 2 kittens