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    Counting the Population of Termina
    • Dear ZU members,

      after six months of writing, planning, rereading and discussing, I can finally present to you my text about Majora's Mask, called "Counting the Population of Termina".
      In it, I analyze the world of MM in a mathematical way, because I was curious how this social world would be structured. I counted every, and by this I mean EVERY (!), person that is appearing in the game and I am thinking about the role each person has in the world of Termina and the grand scheme of things. In other words: What could life be like in Termina?

      I hope you have as much fun reading it and thinking about my ideas as I had writing this text.
      As my document unfortunately is way to large to attach it to this ZU post, I had to upload it on a server so you can download it from there.

      Download Link:
      dropbox.com/s/qillegxtkeus7d9/…n%20of%20Termina.pdf?dl=0

      Criticism would be very much appreciated.
      I hope you enjoy it!
      "A puppet that can no longer be used is mere garbage.
      This puppet's role has just ended..."
      - Majora


      My major theories:

      Counting the Population of Termina

      Counting the Population of Hyrule (OoT)
    • This is by far the most hefty theory I have seen in my life. However, after reading through the footnote of the first pages, I must immediately begin my critique before reading it properly, as I must object to your answer to this question: "Who is the Skull Kid that Link meets in Majora's Mask?"

      You pose these two answers:
      1. It is the same Skull Kid that Link can teach Saria's Song to while playing Ocarina of Time.
      2. It is a different Skull Kid who Link taught Saria's Song to at a different time.

      This is all built on one wrong underlying premise. Link was never shown teaching Saria's Song to anyone.

      The words the Skull Kid in Ocarina of Time uses are:
      "You know Saria's Song! We should be friends! Here, take this!"

      This Skull Kid already knew Saria's Song before Link played it to him.

      Three conclusions can be drawn here:
      1. Link taught this hypothetical "Other Skull Kid" Saria's Song, and this is the one in Majora's Mask.
      2. The somewhat unstable and odd Skull Kid simply got confused about whether or not Link played him the song or taught it to him.
      3. Link smells like Saria, as he has spent his entire childhood with her, and Saria is the one who taught Skull Kid the song.

      Myself and many others believe this third option to be the true one, as Skull Kid knows Saria's Song by name, implying familiarity with Saria herself.

      Another issue with your argument is that you don't take all evidence into account. The Skull Kid we play Saria's Song to is the same Skull Kid we give the Skull Mask to in the Happy Mask Salesman sidequest in Ocarina of Time.

      "Hee hee! Under that mask... aren't you that Kokiri kid? Quite an unusual mask you have there. Hee hee! I like it! It may make me look a little bit tougher. Hey, why don't you give it to me?"

      This Skull Kid has a fascination for unusual, somewhat scary looking masks.

      However, that's not all, as I still have one more issue with this argument alone. This particular Skull Kid we're discussing? He may have never even met Link, or at least not interacted much with him.

      At the end of Ocarina of Time, an adult Zelda sends Link back in time, back to before he opened the Sacred Realm and allowed Ganondorf to take the Triforce of Power, and possibly back before Link even met Zelda. The final scene of the game shows a young Link and Zelda meeting, framed in a way that looks exactly like it did the first time Link and Zelda met, only with the difference that the young Link now bears the mark of the Triforce of Courage on his hand.
      Saria's Song is learned somewhere after Link leaves the Lost Woods, but before we enter Dodongo's Cavern, as it is necessary to calm Darunia down. Logically speaking, there would be no reason for Link to revisit Saria before he fulfilled the Great Deku Tree's very important request and after just having said goodbye to Saria. Ergo, it is very likely that Link would have played Saria's Song to the Lost Woods Skull Kid only after he first met with Zelda.
      The Happy Mask Shop only opens in Hyrule Castle Town after Link gives Zelda's Signature to the guard in Kakariko Village. Therefore it is only possible for Link to give Skull Kid the Skull Mask after he first met with Zelda.

      If you take into account that Skull Kid does not treat Link as a friend in Majora's Mask, despite the line "You know Saria's Song! We should be friends!", and does not wear any mask when he robs the Happy Mask Salesman, I would argue that while this is the same Skull Kid we meet in Ocarina of Time, play the song to and give the mask to, in a bizarre way this Skull Kid never met us.

      Anyways, I may print out your PDF and give it a proper read-through some time. I'm looking forward to it!
    • Dear gamtos,

      thank you for your critique. I am happy you took your time to respond in such a long way to one little footnote. I'm looking forward to what your answer about my whole text will look like.

      I'm sorry it took me such a long time to reply! Had to deal with what we people call real life (especially work).

      In all honesty, I don't really want to go into detail about your reply, simply because you were absolutely right. I don't want to defend my theory, because 1) I don't want this thread to be about this minor detail of my work and 2) I simply made a mistake in (miss)remembering an Ocarina of TIme quote.
      Argh, and here we see that I know these little details of Majora's Mask way better than Ocarina of Time! (Heck, I might by now even know WInd Waker, which I nearly finished, better than Ocarina of TIme!)

      Nevertheless, despite these wrong premises and this wrong conclusion, I still hope my footnote-example was explaining the principle of Occam's Razor well.
      If you like, we could think of a new and better example that explains Occam's Razor and is correct in terms of Zelda lore? (Preferably about Majora's Mask, because well... this is a text about MM.)

      I hope you enjoy my other thoughts! :)
      "A puppet that can no longer be used is mere garbage.
      This puppet's role has just ended..."
      - Majora


      My major theories:

      Counting the Population of Termina

      Counting the Population of Hyrule (OoT)
    • Hello,

      I've decided to just tackle this text bit by bit and add to this post as I go along.

      So here's my first point of interest; citing Zeldapedia as a source.
      Now, in general academia it's understood citing Wikipedia is simply unacceptable, but at least Wikipedia will give you a link to a reputable source in its citations. You can simply go to that reputable source and cite works in this manner.
      Zeldapedia, unlike Zelda Universe's sister site Zelda Wiki, does not make use of citations, and therefore is prone to giving unreliable information.

      Now admittedly, the parts you use to reference are generally player observations and have nothing to do with in-game citations or developer interviews, and aren't found in the theory sections, so not a big deal.

      Page 5, your definition of "civilized" does not match up with the examples you give. The alien race, the seahorses, the monkeys and the Deku Merchants may be organized, but do not appear to have any form of leadership attached to them.

      On your population numbers, I would be careful in describing anyone as unemployed.
      You mention Malon as "temporarily employed" to protect the farm against Them. This is an issue for two reasons:
      • Cremia is never seen taking "them" seriously so who is employing Romani?
      • If we consider what Romani does to be a job, would the Bombers Secret Society of Justice not qualify as a public service as well?
      Rather, I would add an ambiguous column. For instance, the idea that Grog's grandfather is still an active farmer is far too speculative.
    • Dear gamtos,
      so finally, here's my answer.


      gamtos wrote:

      So here's my first point of interest; citing Zeldapedia as a source.
      Linkle already advised me, as well. I will be more cautious in the future.
      In addition, while you are right regarding the academical context (which I used as a structure when writing my text), I don't think the rules have to be as strict as university standards (e.g. citing Wikipedia – whereas you are still right regarding Zeldapedia).



      gamtos wrote:

      Page 5, your definition of "civilized" does not match up with the examples you give. The alien race, the seahorses, the monkeys and the Deku Merchants may be organized, but do not appear to have any form of leadership attached to them.
      Hm... I admit that I chose to use the words “organized” and “being lead” synonymously when talking about civilization(s). I never wanted to claim that the races above have a leader, but that they plan their actions according to some sort of law, whether set by a central figure or a code of rules.


      gamtos wrote:

      You mention Malon as "temporarily employed" to protect the farm against Them. This is an issue for two reasons:


      Cremia is never seen taking "them" seriously so who is employing Romani?
      I mention Romani as employed in agriculture, because I assume she is spending most of her days fulfilling minor tasks necessary to run a farm. The protection against Them was a minor joke of mine and is not to be taken very seriously.
      While I agree with you that this is not an official business contract, I still think that Cremia and Romani have some sort of “family agreement” (this is not a perfect word to describe this situation!) considering this work. Romani is helping Cremia with farming business and gets family protection and social acceptance. While again, this still is more a social/private and not an economic/official construct, it still guarantees Romani being part of a larger economic system – which is the premise I based my analysis on.


      gamtos wrote:

      If we consider what Romani does to be a job, would the Bombers Secret Society of Justice not qualify as a public service as well?
      This question can be answered easily: Because I never took the Bombers seriously. I always considered what the Bombers are doing – literally! – a mere child's play. I always assumed they would not be capable of accomplishing the tasks and helping people by a degree like Link does, who seems older and more intelligent to me.
      As children are people who need special protection because they aren't capable of surviving alone, I think it would be acceptable to see them as unemployed.
      Until you wrote this to me, I never took the Bombers seriously in what they are doing – this is occurring to me now...


      gamtos wrote:

      Rather, I would add an ambiguous column. For instance, the idea that Grog's grandfather is still an active farmer is far too speculative.
      I again see your point. Maybe I could defend Grog's Grandfather being a farmer by stating the following? Farming necessary to sustain oneself is harder and more demanding than life inside a city, where (by definition!) goods have to be delivered to you because you can't create everything you need yourself in such a place. So people inside a city don't need to work that hard to survive than people forced to sustain themselves.
      However, this argumentation is purely based on my intuition!
      Your idea with the ambiguous column nevertheless is very nice and it would fit my text as well. It would not disturb the numbers and therefore conclusions, so it can be implemented (rather) easily.
      "A puppet that can no longer be used is mere garbage.
      This puppet's role has just ended..."
      - Majora


      My major theories:

      Counting the Population of Termina

      Counting the Population of Hyrule (OoT)

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Romano-British Medli ().