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    The Light that Seals Away the Darkness
    • NOTE: SPOILERS ABOUT THE TRIAL OF THE SWORD WILL FOLLOW


      ~ The Light That Seals Away The Darkness ~



      Throughout the Zelda series, the Master Sword has accompany us in our journey to save the Kingdom of Hyrule. But through all of this years, we have gotten 3 different stories on how the Master Sword came to be in the Kingdom of Hyrule. To list them in order of appearance, this are the 3 stories that we have been told about the creation of the Master Sword:

      1. A group of Sages crafted the Master Sword with their wisdom ~ This story was told to us by TP Zelda.

      2. SS Link forged the Master Sword ~ This story is the second big quest in Skyward Sword.

      3. Goddess Hylia forged the blade ~ This story is told to us by the Great Deku Tree once you go to Korok Forest in BotW.

      Now, the latter two can easily coexist, since it is possible that Goddess Hylia originally forged the Goddess Sword, and then SS Link transformed the blade into the Master Sword by tempering with the Sacred Flames. But the first story is the most conflicting, since it is completely contradicted by SS and BotW. Though now I question: Is it really contradicting things or is it a legend that has gotten changed from what it is really is because of the unreliability of the oral tradition? By what we see in BotW's Trial of the Sword, I would say that what is going on is the latter.

      In BotW's Trial of the Sword, we see that 7 Sheikah Monks received a revelation from the Goddess Hylia in the ancient past, and so crafted the trials inside the sword was locking away its true power till the Hero proved himself worthy of wielding the sword's true power. Now, does this sound similar? Lets phrase this sentence how it would had been passed down through the ages: "The Sages, by their wisdom of the future, crafted the trials inside the Master Sword", as we can see it is something that could easily be changed as the ages passed, into what TP Zelda tell us. Now the first big question is: When was the glimmer that repel the darkness locked away?

      ~ The Sealed Glimmer

      In Skyward Sword, we see the forging of the Master Sword, and once Zelda blesses the blade, we see it shine with a beautiful white light, but this is actually the first time chronologically we see this glimmer, and also the last time we see it till atleast the end of OoT, where the blade shines once more when Link is ready to give the final strike to Ganon. So with this, the first we can say is that the glimmer of the blade was repressed before Ocarina of Time, as the when Link pulls the blade from the Pedestal of Time the blade does not shine.




      (In minute 16:13 we can see the moment in which the blade shines once more)

      This also showing that when it is necessary, that the Monks will unlock the true power of the blade, this is also supported by TP and BotW, the former in which the blade shines once more to repel the curse which Zant putted on Link, and in the latter it shines once more when Malice is nearby. Though there is also other instances, in which the blade also shines when there is no evil nearby. This mainly occurs in ALttP, WW, and ALBW. In the first and third, the blade only shines when Link pulls out the blade from its pedestal, and in WW it shines always since the moment in which the sword is reblessed. Though if the blade does not shine in ALttP, it would suggest that either ALttP Link is not worthy of wielding or that an alternative way to defeat Ganon has been found, and I would say that we may be looking at the latter.

      ~ The Alternative to the Glimmer

      In ALttP, we see that while the sword does not glimmer, Link did find a alternative way to defeat Ganon, the Silver Arrows. The Silver Arrows, are used both in ALttP and LoZ to defeat Ganon. While in the former, Link also utilizes the Master Sword to also stop Ganon, but in LoZ, the Silver Arrows are the only way to defeat Ganon. Though of course, in-between ALttP and LoZ, we have ALBW in which Ganon or in this case Yuganon, is able to be defeat with the Master Sword. Which makes the use of Silver Arrows in ALttP even more mysterious, though it could be related to him having full control over the Triforce, and that not even the Master Sword could truly defeat him in that state, without the help of the Silver Arrows. In LoZ, we can say for sure that it is because of the missing/not present Master Sword.



      ~ Conclusion

      While we have gotten 3 stories on how the Master Sword was forged, with 1 of them contradicting the other two, we can actually see that all 3 can coexist, but that one has been changed up because of the oral tradition. Though the events of the Sheikah Monks sealing away the true power of the Master Sword has occurred since Pre-OoT, as its shine was already lost by the time of OoT Link utilize it and only reappear since then when it is needed. Though it does not always appear or is enough to defeat Ganon, as shown in ALttP, where the Silver Arrows are needed to truly defeat Ganon. Though sadly, we cannot say for sure what was that the Sheikah Monks saw in the revelation they received from Goddess Hylia.



      What is the Forgotten Temple?: The Forgotten Temple
      A relation between Zelda and Taoism? The Legend of Zelda and Taoism

      The post was edited 1 time, last by tlozbj ().

    • Actually, the first account can easily be reconciled with the third. In SS, we see the crests of the Sages on the Temple of Hylia/Sealed Temple:



      Which would, hypothetically at least, establish that some form of the Six Sages already existed during the Era of the Goddess. Hylia was presumably their master and thus the equivalent of the Seventh Sage. So, if these six servants assisted her in forging the Goddess Sword (as would make sense), then the first and third accounts overlap, with SS Link then powering it up into the Master Sword later.

      I doubt very much that these monks are actively keeping the power of the blade suppressed at all times. For one thing, we have no real evidence that they were around pre-OoT, and if they were, this would seemingly make them much older than the monks in the other shrines, which (unless I'm mistaken) were only in there for 10,000 years prior to BotW. Not unthinkable, sure, but it seems needlessly messy to have two separate groups of monks just happen to entomb themselves in near-identical fashion with near-identical tech at wholly different times for largely unrelated reasons. For another, these monks disappear upon giving the Hero of the Wild control over the sword's full power- so how and why would they selectively give this power to other heroes remotely across the generations, and why did they not disappear or speak to these heroes when they did? I somehow doubt the Hero of the Wild was just that impressive that they gave up their duties forever just because he happened to clear their trial.
      "Lust... greed... sloth... gluttony... envy... wrath... pride. These are the seven deadly sins of man. In excess, any one of these will ruin a person- but one must understand all seven, if one is to understand humanity." -Von Hohenheim (FMA: Brotherhood)
    • Not gonna talk about the monks since I know very little of BotW's timeline, but what Setras said about the Sages makes perfect sense, haha.

      Further, there's this:


      That's Hylia plus 5 individuals from different races. Sure, it can be just a representation of the Goddess and the races who remained in the surface... but it could also 1) the 6 Sages, in case the concept of the Seven Sages didn't exist until OoT, with Hylia serving as both leader and Sage of Light or 2) Hylia as the seventh Sage, plus the other Sages, except the Sage of Light, who would be Hylian, and sent to the Sky alongside the others.
    • @Setras

      That is indeed truth, and would be more direct than them being the Sheikah Monks. Though the wording used in TP is what makes it a bit off to be fully conciliated with the version of Hylia forging the sword. TP Zelda mentions that it was crafted by their wisdom, which in a way would imply something more mental, than the physical forging action. Though yet again, there is nothing stopping the possibility that the 7 Sheikah Monks were Hylia's helpers while forging the sword, and then by her revelation, crafted the trials.

      While there is no direct sign that they have been there since Pre-OoT, we do can tell that the technology should be there somewhere. Since it is the same tech used in the Tower of the Gods, even the same written language is used in "Sheikah" tech in BotW and the godly constructed (according to Kimg Daphnes) Tower of the Gods from WW. Though to be fair, I wouldn't call this tech "Sheikah Technology", instead the term of "Holy/Godly Techonology" seems more appropiate, seeing how the gods used to build the TofG. Which with that being open to interpretation, would eliminate the issue of the same tech being used which huge time gaps in-between.

      When it comes to how the Sheikah Monks were entombed, it isn't out of the question that the same process could have been used long millenias after that. Since they seem to have self-mummify themselves or in others words, they have gone through Sokushinbutsu, as a way to obtain the Sight of Hylia (atleast the Shrine Monks), so with the revival of the Hylia cult, the process wiuld had probably rebegan aswell.

      I would say that this is related to the revelation received from Goddess Hylia. I don't think they were selective with the other heroes. While it is indeed true that they did not pass their trials, but the other heroes did proof themselves worthy of the blade: OoT Link by collecting the Spiritual Stones, WW Link by collecting the Orbs and passing the TotG, and TP Link by passing through the Sacred Grove and solving the final puzzle. But from what we know, BotW Link never went through any type of similar trial, and so the Trial of the Swords come in. While it is indeed weird they disappeared, we can safely assume that it is because they have completed what Hylia desired, and have left the power unlocked.

      @Froyo

      The problem with those being the Sages + Hylia is that at the moment, the only way know that Sagehood is passed on is by bloodline. This presenting a problem, when we have a Ancient Robot and a Mogma, which are never seen again in Hyrule, and the former aren't even biological beings which could produce off-spring to continue the sagely line.


      What is the Forgotten Temple?: The Forgotten Temple
      A relation between Zelda and Taoism? The Legend of Zelda and Taoism
    • tlozbj wrote:

      Though yet again, there is nothing stopping the possibility that the 7 Sheikah Monks were Hylia's helpers while forging the sword, and then by her revelation, crafted the trials.

      I'm actually more inclined to see the TP Sages as being Hylia's original group of Sages- there are six of them, they are marked with the Sage emblems, and they're seemingly ethereal and ghostly.

      While there is no direct sign that they have been there since Pre-OoT, we do can tell that the technology should be there somewhere. Since it is the same tech used in the Tower of the Gods, even the same written language is used in "Sheikah" tech in BotW and the godly constructed (according to Kimg Daphnes) Tower of the Gods from WW. Though to be fair, I wouldn't call this tech "Sheikah Technology", instead the term of "Holy/Godly Techonology" seems more appropiate, seeing how the gods used to build the TofG. Which with that being open to interpretation, would eliminate the issue of the same tech being used which huge time gaps in-between.

      Except we can't discount the possibility that the gods and/or Sheikah built the Tower between Ganon's sealing in the AT and the Great Flood. There's also the theory that the TotG is in fact the Temple of Light (potentially supported by how it is connected to Hyrule Castle, itself theorized to be a reconstructed Temple of Time).

      When it comes to how the Sheikah Monks were entombed, it isn't out of the question that the same process could have been used long millenias after that. Since they seem to have self-mummify themselves or in others words, they have gone through Sokushinbutsu, as a way to obtain the Sight of Hylia (atleast the Shrine Monks), so with the revival of the Hylia cult, the process wiuld had probably rebegan aswell.

      Oh, absolutely, it could have been employed very early on, then employed again later. My point, though, is that such a time gap is superfluous- we can also just as easily and more sensibly say that the Shrine of the Trial was built alongside the others.

      I would say that this is related to the revelation received from Goddess Hylia. I don't think they were selective with the other heroes. While it is indeed true that they did not pass their trials, but the other heroes did proof themselves worthy of the blade: OoT Link by collecting the Spiritual Stones, WW Link by collecting the Orbs and passing the TotG, and TP Link by passing through the Sacred Grove and solving the final puzzle. But from what we know, BotW Link never went through any type of similar trial, and so the Trial of the Swords come in.

      Except we have no evidence that he didn't go through such a trial, and indeed, the "trial by drain of Life Force" (which he passed) certainly seems like a test of its own.

      While it is indeed weird they disappeared, we can safely assume that it is because they have completed what Hylia desired, and have left the power unlocked.

      Again, what exactly did the Hero of the Wild accomplish during the Trial that his predecessors didn't equal or surpass? What exactly is so impressive about him that the monks can say, "Welp, time to pack it in, we can leave the sword unlocked forever!" I mean, granted, we're dealing with Hylia and her planning here, so logical inconsistency would itself be consistent, but still.

      @Froyo

      The problem with those being the Sages + Hylia is that at the moment, the only way know that Sagehood is passed on is by bloodline.

      Unless I'm mistaken, this was only established to be the case with the Earth and Wind Sages, who are separate from the other seven (though the Seventh Sage may overlap a bit with this group, given how their function is identical to SS Zelda's blessing). And indeed, the Sages in OoT "awaken" after visiting the temples (and possibly dying), while the ones in later games are often different species from the ones they should have descended from, which brings us to the question of if cross-specie couplings can result in children in the Zelda multiverse.
      "Lust... greed... sloth... gluttony... envy... wrath... pride. These are the seven deadly sins of man. In excess, any one of these will ruin a person- but one must understand all seven, if one is to understand humanity." -Von Hohenheim (FMA: Brotherhood)
    • Ah, yes, LtP getting even more retcon - the Sages' descendants are all Hylian maidens, but they came from multiple-race people in OoT (Saria can't even have children, how even do Gorons work), but then the Sages in LBW are multi-race again (sorta, most are Hylians that just kinda look like other races - Gulley and Rosso).

      I've interpreted the glow in OoT as Fi speaking from the sword, but since the two glows look pretty similar (even in BoW), kinda hard to say one way or the other.

      The "sparkling with the power to repel evil" thing is interesting, though, because even SS is ambiguous as to what exactly counts as the sparkle - Din's Flame is attributed as giving the blade "the power to repel evil", but it is Hylia's blessing (apparently restored by the Sages in WW) that makes it "sparkle" with that power...

      There's the Sols in TP that make the Master Sword sparkle, although in the Light World the blade is pretty dulled down (almost black near the hilt).

      The sword can be coated in LtP and LBW to give it extra strength, but the coatings wear off when the blade is placed back in the pedestal; I like the idea of the arrows replacing the sparkle.
    • @Setras

      Well seeing it like that, it does seem like a possibility, though the Sages do mention that they are there simply by order of the Goddesses, but then again, if they were connected to Hylia it could explain why they were chosen to protect the Mirror. Though to be fair, they could also be the Ancient Sages that the built the ToT, which atleast Rauru is said to be quite powerful as he used quite powerful magic to the sealing of the Triforce in the Sacred Realm.

      If that were to happen, it would mean that the Sheikah would had develop equally in two timelines, that seems a bit doubtful. Though the gods being in play is a possibility, but that would just leave us in a argument circle, since it could just be said they inserted the tech pre-split so that the Trial of the Sword could be created, and then they dissappeared the tech once more till it was needed in the AT, and it was used by the Sheikah in whatever timeline BotW happens via some reverse-engineering process.

      That is true, but as you mentioned in the part below, we are dealing with Hylia's planning here. So it would be consistent if she instructed them to do this, and the process wouldn't return till later on when the 120 Monks blessed with the Sight of Hylia did the same process, afterall we know that the Hylia cult did reappear, its traditions would had naturally return with it.

      Yet, we have no sign at all that he did do any trials at all, OoT Link had the Spiritual Stones, WW Link had the Goddesss Pearls, and TP Link was given access by the stone guards after passing their test and collecting the Fused Shadows. If we are to take the "trial by drain of Life Force" as his trial, then it is no wonder Hylia warn the Sheikah Monks that one day a Hero would need to pass the Trials to actually use the full power of the blade. While the other tested the 3 virtues, BotW Link at most only tested Courage and Wisdom.

      I would think that passing the Trial of the Sword + the Shrines would outdo what the other Links did. Though the real answer to that question lies in what actually happens to Ganon. Zelda believes that he was sealed, but it wouldn't be out of the question that he was actually destroyed this time around, and so there would be no more need for the Monks to be there, as the Master Sword can finally sleep forever.

      ALBW partly confirms that Sagehood is pass by blood. This set of Sages are said to be descended from a previous set, and Osfala remarks that because of this he is as powerful as his ancestor, while of course he also turns out to be a Sage. Rosso also knew he was a Sage before hand, and bloodline is the most possible way he could have known.
      Well it is a possibility, a game ocurring after BotW could shed some light on this, since that Zora kid began to go out with that Hylian man, or if Mipha hadn't died, we could had seen if she was able to have kids with Link.

      And sorry for the delay, I had been occupied with Persona 5, and completing the Korok Seed search.


      What is the Forgotten Temple?: The Forgotten Temple
      A relation between Zelda and Taoism? The Legend of Zelda and Taoism

      The post was edited 1 time, last by tlozbj ().

    • Although... Courage and Wisdom are the elements of Power, and Link's health is often portrayed as representing his strength directly.

      Courage being defined as "the ability to maintain one's virtues despite the difficulty to do so"
      Wisdom being defined as "the knowing beforehand the best solution to a problem"
      Power being defined as "the ability to act, or to resist being acted upon"

      Courage is itself a kind of power - the ability to resist being acted upon by one's situation in determining what to do in a situation. Wisdom is necessary for the proper use of one's Power.

      ~~~

      Being omniscient means not only knowing information, but particularly having Wisdom to solve all problems in the best way possible.

      Being omnibenevolent (all-good) requires Courage - the ability to remain good no matter the personal cost. What is good? Doing that which is wise - the best solution to a problem.

      Being omnipotent is having all Power - the ability to act on all things, and not be acted upon.

      Having these attributes makes one a God - the creators of the Triforce were so (in a three-way kind of thing, I guess).

      The Triforce of Wisdom always seems to find itself within the hands of Zelda, likely because it is from Wisdom that concepts of "good" and "bad" ultimately derive - it is from this Goddess that the law was founded, and Zelda is always an embodiment of goodness and grace in the Zelda series.

      Courage ends up with Link often because it is he who faces the direct challenge of his heroic values - whether that be his desire to save Zelda, his sister, or the land of Hyrule - and acts to overcome these challenges.

      Power is wielded by Ganondorf because it is the only one of the three virtues that doesn't overtly require virtuous character to have (though ultimately it will require one, since an unwise/cowardly person will abuse and lose power over time).

      The people who can wield the True Force (e.g. SS Link) are those who can exhibit all three attributes to a high degree - they emulate the perfected attributes of the Gods in themselves, to the best of their mortal ability.

      ...

      I just realized I should probably make my own thread for this; this sounds really cool!

      The post was edited 1 time, last by logicalpencils ().

    • I'm personally of the opinion that the blade always shines, we just don't always see the shine. Likewise, I agree with Setras in that the three origin stories work together well. Basically, the sages either,

      A) are characters Link meets in SS, that aren't awakened as sages yet, but by helping Link through his journey, they helped forge the MS.

      or

      B) are characters from the Era of the Goddess that helped Hylia forge the Goddess Sword.

      Also, I doubt that the Trial of the Sword existed prior to the backstory of BOTW. The technology shown in the Trial of sword and the monks and their attire is the same as all the other tech and monks shown in BOTW, which is from the events of 10,000 years prior.
    • logicalpencils wrote:

      But there are specific points in games made before SS where the sword glows - WW most particularly, though the end of the Ganon fight in OoT, as well, or the Sols in the Twilight Realm.


      There's also when it glows in LBW when Link pulls it out and raises it skyward.
      I guess this is gonna be a argument of in-universe lore vs presumed, on my part, developer intent, as all those moments seem like to me, they were specifically made to establish a important change to the ms or a important moment within the game. Thus, it either glows specifically within games like OOT, TP, and ALBW, to emphasis its strength and importance, while it glows in WW and SS to emphasis that the sword has change in some form, and as for the sols, well regardless of how you view the glowing, the sols are a specific part of the twilight realm and likely have nothing to do with the sword glowing, assuming you consider the glowing to be something that has always existed in-universe since like SS.

      In short, my assumption Is that the MS always glows, and to account for instances where it glows specifically to emphasis a important moment, then it is likely only glowing more noticeably then it normally glows. To put this into a in-universe way of viewing it:

      Hylia creates the Goddess Sword->Link forges it into the Master Sword-> Zelda uses her blessing to unlock it's true power->the sword always emits a glow from this point onward so long as its true power is being sustained somehow. The glow is more noticeable depending on the art style of the game->random spurts of intense glowing are either surges in power from being released from the pedestal of time or Fi recognizing her master returning->in one timeline in WW the sages of blessing are killed and the MS returns to its less powerful form->in a different timeline, or maybe not, something causes the MS to lose it's luster after the original calamity ganon attack and thus the monks develop the Trial of the Sword to ensure that next Link has the true MS.

      (I hope this makes sense, sorry if I'm rambling. :P)