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    So about the Gorons, again...
    • If a male gerudo is born, he is royalty. Right?
      Royalty have their own tailors or can special order from the towns tailor.

      It is a bit confusing why it's illegal to sell anyways, a gerudo girl might want to buy some clothes for her husband or something?
      A souvenir for a male friend elsewhere.
      Maybe they don't want to cheapen the clothe style?

      Maybe it's only the male gerudo that's allowed to wear them?

      Also, we don't see any male gerudo in BotW. It's strange.
      We hear and talk with the current ruler and we hear about her mother which was the last ruler before her.
      I think they talk somewhere about male gerudo, but I can't remember where.
      It should t the very least be some mention in one of the flashbacks from 100 years ago.
    • Would be pretty brutal if they simply are ultra-superstitious believing in the myth of the female race which brings a male king every hundred year that they just kills every newborn male and then randomly let one live every hundred year, which just happened to be the kindhearted and beloved Ganondorf, a divine prank was it huh? Would explain a lot actually. ^^

      During my second playthrough I am going to spend much more time in the Gerudo and Goron region just because of this thread lel.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by MVS ().

    • Just a thought to throw out there, outwith Zelda's diegesis, as both the Gerudo and Gorons make their first appearance in OoT - were they conceived as opposing counterparts?
      Gerudo are of course generally female, and Gorons appear to be generally male. I haven't seen anyone mention the idea that this was deliberate, interesting if it just lined up that way.
    • Regarding all of the Gorons identifying as male... Is this confirmed?

      Keep in mind that in the japanese version of the games, Gorons refer to each other as"Kyoudai" which does mostly mean "brothers" but is also very commonly used to refer to siblings in a general sense. Thus it could be perfectly used to refer to sisters (females) and siblings (gender neutral individuals)

      In contrast, Darunia for example is referred to as "Aniki" which means "Big Brother".

      When talking, pretty much all Gorons use the first person pronouns "Ora" to refer to themselves, which is a "hick"-ish corruption of the masculine pronouns "Ore". However, in rural areas where characters use the pronouns "Ora" you pretty much always have both men and women use it (for example Goku from DBZ uses Ora, and so does his wife Chi Chi, both of them being "hicks") because in rural areas the gender roles of pronouns aren't as strict.

      Adding to that, gendered third person pronouns are very rarely used in the japanese language compared to english, so you're very likely to have characters that never get referred to with any gendered pronouns (For example I'm pretty sure that Zant is never called "he" in japanese Twilight Princess)

      Now, this doesn't mean I think we should all stop using gendered pronouns for characters (and I'd never argue that Zant isnt male), all I'm saying is that saying that its "Confirmed" that a character, or even a whole species, identifies as a certain gender is a bit much, especially when you gotta keep in mind that the english version has to add a bunch of gendered stuff because of how the language works.

      As for the Gorons, in the german version that I played (havent had a chance yet to check the japanese original) the lady observing the two Gorons in the Gerudo city says that the Gerudo consider Gorons female, and the Gorons seem a bit puzzled, but dont directly seem to disagree.

      My personal interpretation of this is that Goron's are a race where only one sex exists (hermaphrodites possibly, but ultimately the Zelda world is magic so not everything has to be explained with science), and that Hylians consider all of them male, because of their culture. But Gerudo, with a different culture and different standards, see them all as female. The Gorons themselves probably dont really think about it, for the most part not caring about how they are referred to.

      But thats just my own interpretation, I'm not saying anyone has to stick to this.
    • @kaialone Hey thats interesting - I also wondered if the gorons use the word for brother (aniki, ototo, Nii-san etc) or a more gender neutral. Because the japanese Language normally dont gives a fuck if you are male or female.

      That the Gerudo see all Gorons as female is really interesting. Considering that the Gerudo themselves are a travelling race and mostly have contact with travelling gorons it makes sense that they see them also as females. As they only have contact with only one kind of gorons. Could you please tell me where that NPC is you mentioned (I am also german but I would like to check if she does say the same in english). Because then we definetly have our answer to the whole problematic.

      I am also know more then convinced that the gorons just only have one sex and therefore think of themselves different then the commonly "male" and "female" - probably just as "gorons". Unfortunetaly Nintendo didnt use the opportunity to introduce us to a naive goron language .... that would clear up a lot.
    • Nihilem wrote:

      @kaialone Hey thats interesting - I also wondered if the gorons use the word for brother (aniki, ototo, Nii-san etc) or a more gender neutral. Because the japanese Language normally dont gives a fuck if you are male or female.

      (...)

      Could you please tell me where that NPC is you mentioned (I am also german but I would like to check if she does say the same in english). Because then we definetly have our answer to the whole problematic.

      (...)

      Actually, there is quite a lot of gendered nuances when it comes to the japanese language (for example the first person pronouns I mentioned) it just works rather different from english (and german) half the time.

      As for where to find those NPCs, before you beat the Titan of the Gerudo, a single Goron will be at the center of the Gerudo town, noting how many women there are, and then wondering why he was let in then.

      After beating the Titan, the Goro will sit left of the entrance to the royal building (when you exit it), with another Goron, and a Hylian woman watching them and making notes.

      She will say the aforementioned line about Gerudo considering Gorons women, and thats why they're allowed inside.

      One of the Gorons will go "I felt nervous with only women being around. But with (insert other Goron's name) I still feel nervous", and the other one will say "I have a new friend! Or.. a new female friend* ? I'm not really sure."


      (*In german there is a seperate word for a specifically female friend, in case anyone is wondering.)

      The Gorons lines there, to me, kinda just play with the idea of these two Gorons being considered women, and the Gorons being slightly puzzled but not really disagreeing. But again, this is from the german version, I haven't found these bits in japanese yet to check what the original lines are.
    • I always thought it was pretty clear that the only reason the Gorons were allowed in Gerudo Town was because the Gerudo didn't know Gorons were male. If the Gerudo can mistake Link for a girl when he wears female clothes, they can mistake Gorons as female for having girl-ish names.

      As for why the law's in place, it's probably derived from both the reverence Gerudo give to their own males (they become king automatically and all), and a cautious nature towards anything foreign bred from their life in an unforgiving desert.

      Their culture by BoW centers on strength, cultural unity, and self-discovery/man-finding through world exploration. I have to say though, seeing the awkward and hilarious effects of isolation from men in Gerudo Town is one of my favorite things outside of the main quest in the game.
      INACTIVE UNTIL 2021

      The post was edited 1 time, last by logicalpencils ().

    • ich Will wrote:

      I haven't read all of the thread, but I would guess that Gorons were allowed because they can't mate with Gerudo women. Not sure if they'd also let male Zora and Rito in though, and we don't know if those races can mate with the Gerudo (or Hylians for that matter), but I would guess not.
      We do know that male Ritos aren't allowed there either, a Rito-NPC confirms that on the Kara Kara... something lol (always forget names). That Rito's name is also very fitting... "Guy". I highly doubt that a male Zora would be allowed, but I strongly doubt that a Zora would like to be in the desert environment anyway.
    • While I get one issue here is that the game doesn't explain how it works, I think its interesting to note that there are a number of real world species that reproduce like the gerudos seem to.

      It even has a term, gynogenesis, and its found in some fish and salamanders. You can read about it here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis#Gynogenesis

      In short (assuming I understand it right), its like parthenogenesis (all female species that produce genetic clones), except that these species require the sperm of males of other related species to stimulate the development of their eggs. Its even theorized that on very rare occasions they may get fertilized by the other species and thus get some genetic variation by producing a rare male.

      It may not be a exact match (namely the gerudos may vary a bit too much in appearance to be genetic clones), but its close enough for a fantasy setting isn't it?
    • Just a bit of headcanon here:

      I always assumed that Gorons, were neither male nor female. Gorons are Gorons, and may reproduce via asexual methods. One possibility may be "budding", where a baby Goron may actually grow out of an adult's back. Simple real life animals like hydras (a kind of simple jellyfish-like thing, not, unfortunately, a nine-headed dragon) reproduce this way. It could explain Bludo's "back pain" in BotW as well -- he may be getting ready to bud, and either doesn't realize it, or doesn't want to admit it to Link (or Yunobo). Another fun theory that came to mind while I was playing BotW is that perhaps certain minerals in the Gorons' environment may be catalysts for budding, or can even randomize their DNA by radiation mutation. That could explain why most Gorons look so similar -- "sons" are usually genetic clones of their "fathers", but at the same time, there are enough differences that even non-Gorons notice.

      Gorons referring to themselves in the masculine may just be a convenient way of translating from Goron to Hylian for them. If they majority of Hylians they encounter are male, and may refer to themselves with terms like "brothers-in-arms" (i.e. when meeting Hylian knights sent by the King, as implied in OoT), Gorons may have just liked the term and adopted it themselves.

      That's just my theory. As many others have noted, I doubt Nintendo's going to go into the details surrounding Goron reproduction any time soon, so whatever theories we come up with will probably remain just that.


      BotW Zelda in her purple Hylian Tunic, by my husband, DarkSilver.

      "Breath of the Wild: "Zelda's Redemption" Chapter 3 now up!

      After Calamity Ganon's defeat, a devastated Zelda must come to terms with her ruined kingdom, dead friends, and the resentment of the Hero who had saved her, but lost his fiancee. When all hope seems lost, she comes across a legend of a holy relic that can set things right, if she can find the ancient keys to access it. With the help of new friends, and without Link, can Zelda finally become a legend, on her own terms?
    • I am going to have to side with the asexual reproduction side for the Gorons, but I actually want to take it a step further. I don't think the are budding or cloning, I would actually argue for a "Cabbage Patch Kids" biology. Gorons have no reproduction at all and actually find their young while mining. Simply digging them up from the ground. Whoever digs them up is the "father" and names the child, but for the most part they are raised by the entire village.

      The idea of a race literally born out of nature is hardly rare in fantasy. And the Gorons do appear to actually be literally made of rock; essentially golems. Perhaps they live in some sort of hibernative seed/egg-like state underground until exposed to the air which awakens the after being dug up.

      ---

      As for Garudos having a G chromosone instead of X or Y seems to make a lot of sense in real world genetics. In humans, relative to other chromosomes, X and Y carry only a handful of genes, the chromosome is mostly blank. A Gerudo could be either GX or GY, but the G chromosome suppresses X and Y, and is always passes on, which would allow for a functional monogender race.

      And the "one male every hundred years" could be a genetic fluke like XYY that causes no defects despite being abnormal. Lets say male Geruda are GXY, and that while G can repress X or Y, it cannot suppress both, and the XY still manages to express, resulting in a male child, whereas the other outcome, GXX still produces a female child. Such genetic hiccups IRL occur in about 1/1000 children. 5 generations of 200 Gerudo producing an average of one child would produce a male child on average once every 100 years, while also maintaining a stable self-replacing population.

      In addition, the G chromosome could explain why centuries of breeding with Hylians doesn't cause dilution of Garudo racial traits. The G chromosome could carry what we think of as Gerudo genetic traits; dark skin, red hair, female sex, tall, muscular, large nose. Since it always passes on, there is no dilution. And the variations in Gerudo that we DO see is the result of the other 22 chromosome pairs that function the same as in real world humans.

      Such an answer I believe does not violate our existing knowledge of genetics and could, in theory, be how an actual Earth species' reproduction works.
    • linkthezora wrote:

      Advance wrote:

      It's also heavily implied that Goron's are distinctly male, rather than masculine-esque asexual.

      So yeah, weird stuff even diegetically lol
      Again, I think the law applies only to human males, not Goron/Zora/Rito males.
      Wasn't Guy the Rito not allowed in Gerudo town as well, or does it just not come up? I can't remember.

      *If* Zora could reach the desert at all, considering their canon interest in Hylians (and presumably other human races like Gerudo), they'd probably fall under the "no voes" rule as well.

      Though if Prince Sidon showed up at the gates, I could definitely see the guards making an exception for him! :P


      BotW Zelda in her purple Hylian Tunic, by my husband, DarkSilver.

      "Breath of the Wild: "Zelda's Redemption" Chapter 3 now up!

      After Calamity Ganon's defeat, a devastated Zelda must come to terms with her ruined kingdom, dead friends, and the resentment of the Hero who had saved her, but lost his fiancee. When all hope seems lost, she comes across a legend of a holy relic that can set things right, if she can find the ancient keys to access it. With the help of new friends, and without Link, can Zelda finally become a legend, on her own terms?
    • The male Rito named Guy is at the bazaar, he is not allowed inside. He has a side quest to get him a cooling elixir so that he can fly around some more in the desert.
      I would also assume *if* Zoras are able to get to the Gerudo city then they would be considered voe (if they are male that is).

      Also, royalty being allowed in the city? The friends (the champions) of Urbosa was apparently welcome? Don't know if they had to wear vai-clothes like Link has to tho...