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    So about the Gorons, again...
    • To end the whole name discussion - the goron called Lyndae is male (if gorons have different genders). When you talk to him he explains to you that there are only Vaais in the city allowed and is surprised that they let him in.

      There more I think about it I also agree that the gorons actually just have one sex. And because Zelda is a Nintendo game we will never know how they reproduce. Therefore it makes no sense that they are not allowed in gerudo city.

      But I stay on my opinion that the gerudo do not care much about it.
    • I figured it was because it's a Goron, and thus the Gerudos don't have to worry about them desiring sex. They're both incapatable. That said, I too don't think we've ever seen a female Goron (but maybe that's because they don't have *ahem* obvious features that would mark them as such.)

      As far as Link goes, maybe either he raises his voice to a higher tempo, or his voice hadn't dropped yet so that's why they don't instantly catch on that he's a dude dressed up as a Vai.


      "I'm the King of the Seas!" - Said every Orca Whale Ever

    • Lucretia wrote:

      but rhondson isn't her surname, it's her first name
      Well, sometimes you use your surname as a first name, especially for celebrities or in certain situations (like at work or in the military), and sometimes people just uses others' surnames because they sound a lot better than their actual first names, I remember most did so with certain individuals back at my school (or other nicknames that haven't anything to do with their first or surnames). To me it is very arbitrarily. But now it seems that Lyndae indeed is a male, so whatever... I just wanted to point that out.


      Khao wrote:

      I can't just believe that Goron females exist and we just haven't seen them
      Have we ever seen a female dwarf from the Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit movies? And the Lord of the Rings is superior to the Zelda franschise in story telling and lore (no shit) but still no female dwarf has actually been seen... which only briefly has been touched upon in one or two scenes from the movies that they are simply very similar to their male counterparts. So MAYBE we have seen female dwarfs but without knowing it, the same can be the case for Gorons. Perhaps the third Goron to the left in Goron City in Ocarina of Time is a female, how do you know?

      And I do think Nintendo made it so male Gorons got in into the Gerudo Town just for funny purposes... just as a dwarf in the Hobbit thought a female elf was flirting with him at one occasion, but it turned out that it indeed was a male elf... does that mean that female elves don't exist? Of course not, so that way of making conclusions is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Nintendo probably just wanted to make it a thing that it isn't the easiest thing to distinguish between male and female Gorons and therefore the Gerudo guards were like: "f**k it, not even worth it". Would be very embarrassing for them to ask or even worse trying to figure it out themselves.

      But sure I could be wrong, my point is just that we don't have enough proof to be able to state that female Gorons don't exist. Always when I can't tell if a certain animal from a certain species is male or female I just assume they are too similar for the unexperienced eye. Therefore I have always just assumed that female Gorons exists (just that I can't tell the difference), nothing more to it than that. But sure of course I could be wrong.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by MVS ().

    • linkthezora wrote:

      I figured it was because it's a Goron, and thus the Gerudos don't have to worry about them desiring sex. They're both incapatable. That said, I too don't think we've ever seen a female Goron (but maybe that's because they don't have *ahem* obvious features that would mark them as such.)

      As far as Link goes, maybe either he raises his voice to a higher tempo, or his voice hadn't dropped yet so that's why they don't instantly catch on that he's a dude dressed up as a Vai.
      And yes, once again a little bit of spoilers down below...

      As like a 17-year old he certainly has got a deeper voice, especially in harsh times as the time Link is in. People in hard environments usually matures faster than people in more civilized societies, and sure he has been in a coma for 100 years, but I can't see that make such a difference since he fought evil before as well. Life could not have been easy for him at all, especially not when he failed.

      And it is really hard for a male usually to raise his voice without it to sound very artificial and stupid, I can't do that, especially if I talk loudly it is very apparent that I would be faking. For just those cutscenes I would like Link to have voice acting, even though it would ruin the experience for like 96 % of players. ^^

      And yes I most certainly overthinking this, but we all do really in these topics.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by MVS ().

    • To be fair, several of the Gerudo women have deeper, huskier voices. They might not even blink.

      I do think it's odd that the Gorons would bother using masculine titles for one another (father, brother, son, etc.) if females don't even exist. Why use those words? Do they still use masculine terminology in Japanese (actually, I know nothing of Japanese; does that language have gender or a viable gender-neutral option?) And why didn't they just come up with their own words? The Gerudo have their own language.

      This all goes back to how frustrated I am that the Gerudo and Zora got such amazing development in BotW, but the Gorons got nuthin'.
      What good is Power without the Wisdom to wield it? What good is Wisdom without the Courage to act? What good is Courage without the Power to change the world?

      NNID: Croutonz
    • it is still a much bigger issue/mystery how the Gerudos as a race can exist when they only reproduce females (aside from that leader that is born every hundred year). The Gerudos shouldn't even exist, so looking at it from that angle I wouldn't be surprised if Gorons just shit out eggs randomly every now and then without any sexual activity with females. That sounds more reasonable than the issue with the Gerudos. It would be one thing if the Gerudos was a bunch of Hylian hardcore feminist women, but they are an entire race of their own, which is f**king stupid and just goes to show how little love Nintendo gives Zelda as a series in terms of believable lore and worldbuilding.
    • Zesty Crouton wrote:




      I do think it's odd that the Gorons would bother using masculine titles for one another (father, brother, son, etc.) if females don't even exist. Why use those words? Do they still use masculine terminology in Japanese (actually, I know nothing of Japanese; does that language have gender or a viable gender-neutral option?) And why didn't they just come up with their own words? The Gerudo have their own language.
      Same way the Asari in mass effect all use the terms sister, mother and daughter, even when they admit that while they are technically neither male or female.
    • If female Gorons exist, then they simply don't seem to have too many clear sexually dimorphic characteristics, so I'd assume the Gerudo just didn't want to put up with missexing or misgendering based on little information.

      However, if Gorons are an all-male race, then simply put, it's practical from a trade standpoint to allow them as an exception to the rule. The Goron society clearly produces resources that other races can use from their mining, so it would obviously be bone-headed to disallow personal trade with them based on their law, so in this case, I'd say they allow them in purely for economic reasons.

      As for reproduction, that's a tricky one. Maybe the Gorons are an asexual race. I don't mean in the sex identity "not interested in boning" definition, I'm talking the actual reproduction method of arising from a single organism and having the genes of the single parent. Like, you know, as Gimili says in Lord of the Rings "they just spring out of holes in the ground."

      "When people can't control their own emotions, they have to control someone else's behavior" - John Cleese

      The post was edited 6 times, last by Codin ().

    • MVS wrote:

      it is still a much bigger issue/mystery how the Gerudos as a race can exist when they only reproduce females (aside from that leader that is born every hundred year). The Gerudos shouldn't even exist, so looking at it from that angle I wouldn't be surprised if Gorons just shit out eggs randomly every now and then without any sexual activity with females. That sounds more reasonable than the issue with the Gerudos. It would be one thing if the Gerudos was a bunch of Hylian hardcore feminist women, but they are an entire race of their own, which is f**king stupid and just goes to show how little love Nintendo gives Zelda as a series in terms of believable lore and worldbuilding.
      I mean, it's not really a mystery how they're able to still exist. Gerudo women leave their homeland to find male partners, and it seems like a pretty important part of their life as far as BotW is concerned. That's how they have children, which of course are almost always exclusively female. They must have some really dominant genes to be able to always have Gerudo girls as children (as opposed to a Hylian child), but my point is it's not really a mystery as to how Gerudos are able to keep their race going.


      Anyways, I like the Gorons themselves in BotW, as they're pretty funny and I like their whole "bro culture" they have going, but they are by far the most disappointing race in the game as far as expanded lore is concerned (unless you want to count the Koroks). After seeing Zora's Domain I had pretty high expectations to what Goron City was going to be like, but it ended up just being the typical small set of cave houses, most of it just shops and the like. Meh.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Common Knowledge ().

    • Common Knowledge wrote:

      I mean, it's not really a mystery how they're able to still exist. Gerudo women leave their homeland to find male partners, and it seems like a pretty important part of their life as far as BotW is concerned. That's how they have children, which of course are almost always exclusively female. They must have some really dominant genes to be able to always have Gerudo girls as children (as opposed to a Hylian child), but my point is it's not really a mystery as to how Gerudos are able to keep their race going.
      Not to sound rude, but this is very basic biology/genetics we are talking about. What happens if a racial group of just one gender starts families with people from another race? And continues to do so forever? That racial group will completely disappear over time with all its unique traits and features. Therefore Gerudos shouldn't exist as a racial group. Unless the games have lied to us and that there indeed exists male Gerudos (aside from Ganondorf) which they starts families with in secret, they are doomed to disappear over time. To put it very clearly: Let's say the first generation is 100 % Gerudo, after the first generation has mixed with outgroup-members the second generation will be 50 % Gerudo, after that 25 %, 12.5 % and so on, basic math - you get the point. So yes it is indeed a mystery I would say.

      If Nintendo are serious with the series, the Gerudo should lose all their racial traits and more look like Hylians or/and Sheikahs, or they should introduce the existence of everyday male Gerudos. Or they can just ignore this as if this would have the same level of logic as the Mario franschise.

      The Goron issue isn't even an issue compared to this.
    • ^
      I wouldn't think too much into that if I were you.

      It's fiction so they can essentially make something up that explains why the Gerudo still exist as a female-only race. Perhaps the Gerudo gene is so dominant in reproduction that it forces the offspring of some humanoid races to be Gerudo as well, or some BS equivalent. Whether or not it lines up perfectly with real world biology is kinda irrelevant, as long it has some semblance of reality for us to relate to then it allows us to suspend our disbelief for the sake of the game world.
    • MVS wrote:

      Common Knowledge wrote:

      I mean, it's not really a mystery how they're able to still exist. Gerudo women leave their homeland to find male partners, and it seems like a pretty important part of their life as far as BotW is concerned. That's how they have children, which of course are almost always exclusively female. They must have some really dominant genes to be able to always have Gerudo girls as children (as opposed to a Hylian child), but my point is it's not really a mystery as to how Gerudos are able to keep their race going.
      Not to sound rude, but this is very basic biology/genetics we are talking about. What happens if a racial group of just one gender starts families with people from another race? And continues to do so forever? That racial group will completely disappear over time with all its unique traits and features. Therefore Gerudos shouldn't exist as a racial group. Unless the games have lied to us and that there indeed exists male Gerudos (aside from Ganondorf) which they starts families with in secret, they are doomed to disappear over time. To put it very clearly: Let's say the first generation is 100 % Gerudo, after the first generation has mixed with outgroup-members the second generation will be 50 % Gerudo, after that 25 %, 12.5 % and so on, basic math - you get the point. So yes it is indeed a mystery I would say.
      If Nintendo are serious with the series, the Gerudo should lose all their racial traits and more look like Hylians or/and Sheikahs, or they should introduce the existence of everyday male Gerudos. Or they can just ignore this as if this would have the same level of logic as the Mario franschise.

      The Goron issue isn't even an issue compared to this.
      Um, I don't think anybody's looking for a scientifically accurate explanation for any of this haha. Like I said in my previous post, it's safe to assume that Gerudos must have a magical, very dominant gene that makes all their children Gerudo females. That's sufficient enough. How many fictional universes actually go in-depth with science to make sense of fictional races? You're trying to apply real-world science to explain a race that already has a mystical element of having just one male born every 100 years.


      I mean, if we're going to dwell on stuff like this, one of the sidequests in BotW has you making a Zora girl and Hylian guy meet and start dating each other. Who the heck knows how that works for those two races.
    • Well, only because a franchise is in the fantasy-category I will not accept anything with the excuse that "it is a fantasy". With fantasies I really appreciate some kind of logic within a framework of some kind... but still more generous since it is fantasy. I am open for different lifeforms out there in the multiverse (yes I rather believe in a multiverse than just the universe) so I have not so much problems with weird and different lifeforms... but lifeforms which is the same as us (biological-based humanoids with almost the same traits, features and functions as us) it indeed bothers me somewhat when it just goes against common sense. I have less problems if the Gerudos would be a completely other species (like Gorons) and you could come up with whatever... but the Gerudos looks like humans and therefore I am going to think of them as humans.

      Even if the genes "just" would be super-dominant, it would still be completely drowned by other genes after some thousands of years of incessant breeding outside the group, but whatever. And sure, I could accept some kind of magical ingredient in the Gerudo genes that keeps them look and behave like they do... magic is a thing in the Zelda series after all, but to me it just feels a bit cheap and an easy way out. It doesn't bother me at all that only females are born... just how they reproduce and yet keeps their traits and features to 100 %... even after thousands of years of breeding outside of their very distinctive/unique group. But sure, some magic property in their genes... I could buy I guess, even though I am not a big fan of it.

      I can give you another example which bothers me a little bit, just a little, and that is the fact that Beedle (and some other characters) always just "happens" to travel the same way you do all the time. I do find it charming and nothing I really mind that much when I play... but I can't deny it ruins my immersion in the game a little, but yes it is charming.

      Although there are leeway for magic in the game, I still don't think it is reasonable to always use that excuse as things gets complicated or plain out illogical/stupid.
    • I understand not looking to dismiss the need for internal logic just because something is fantasy, but I think that really depends on the type of fantasy we're looking at. Zelda just isn't a game that cares one whit about internal consistency on that level. They are more interested in the fantastical element of a race of all female warriors then they are explaining how that's possible. I'm perfectly all right with that. Much of the oldest, most enduring stories told in human history are told the same way.
    • I agree that magic shall not always be the easy way out solution to all problems your fantasy world has - and is also not needed in the gerudo reproduction problem ... just a little imagination.

      Just assume for a moment that Gerudo do not have XX in there DNA but only one Chromosom instead - lets call it G for Gerudo. All important gerudo-information(gender, color etc etc) are saved on that. It also does combines neither with the X nor with the Y chromosome of the father. So if you match the G-Chromosome of an gerudo women with the XY-Chromosomes of the hylian father the result will always be G - so a new Gerudo.

      Then we just have to assume that the information on the G-gene are all dominant and we can explain the existence of the gerudo race without some hidden gerudo males and without "magic".
    • MVS wrote:

      Well, only because a franchise is in the fantasy-category I will not accept anything with the excuse that "it is a fantasy". With fantasies I really appreciate some kind of logic within a framework of some kind... but still more generous since it is fantasy. I am open for different lifeforms out there in the multiverse (yes I rather believe in a multiverse than just the universe) so I have not so much problems with weird and different lifeforms... but lifeforms which is the same as us (biological-based humanoids with almost the same traits, features and functions as us) it indeed bothers me somewhat when it just goes against common sense. I have less problems if the Gerudos would be a completely other species (like Gorons) and you could come up with whatever... but the Gerudos looks like humans and therefore I am going to think of them as humans.

      Even if the genes "just" would be super-dominant, it would still be completely drowned by other genes after some thousands of years of incessant breeding outside the group, but whatever. And sure, I could accept some kind of magical ingredient in the Gerudo genes that keeps them look and behave like they do... magic is a thing in the Zelda series after all, but to me it just feels a bit cheap and an easy way out. It doesn't bother me at all that only females are born... just how they reproduce and yet keeps their traits and features to 100 %... even after thousands of years of breeding outside of their very distinctive/unique group. But sure, some magic property in their genes... I could buy I guess, even though I am not a big fan of it.

      I can give you another example which bothers me a little bit, just a little, and that is the fact that Beedle (and some other characters) always just "happens" to travel the same way you do all the time. I do find it charming and nothing I really mind that much when I play... but I can't deny it ruins my immersion in the game a little, but yes it is charming.

      Although there are leeway for magic in the game, I still don't think it is reasonable to always use that excuse as things gets complicated or plain out illogical/stupid.
      Ever heard of the MST3K mantra? Here, I'll sing it for you with a Zelda twist to it:

      If you're wondering how Link eats and breathes,
      And other science facts
      (La la la)
      Just say to yourself, "It's just a game, I really should relax."


      This isn't hard-core sci-if like Mass Effect. This is a fantasy game. A fantasy game where Link wakes up after a century-long nap with no physical reprucussions like muscular dystrophy, amnesia aside. A fantasy game where it's implied Link had feelings for Milpha, a fish-person and he fights mechanical spider things that shoot laser beams.

      I could go on, but the "it's a fantasy game" answer is literally the only answer. You can't apply real-world logic into a fantasy game.


      "I'm the King of the Seas!" - Said every Orca Whale Ever

    • If the game is well done you can. At least the LOGIC. You should however do not use real life axioms and conclusions as they might be different in a fantasy world. Obviously sometimes ingame logic is thrown out of the window for gameplay reasons. But that should not count for the whole world building. At least in good, serious games that should not count for the whole world building ....
    • @Nihilem I like the way you think. That kind of explanation would be the best, even though it feels a bit weird that they just would have one chromosome since they are humanoids and must stand very close to Hylians since they apparently can get fertile offspring with them. But at least something in that sense would be satisfying enough for me. Maybe that their X-chromosomes are so dominant that they don't even "compromises" with the other part but just "takes over" completely. Would be cool if there were some kind of Sheikah scientists in that region as well who are curious about this as they were with the ancient Shiekah technology. I found a journalist there at least, but should have been more. BUT I could have missed something as well. I am about to start up a new file and begin a second playthrough today I think.


      @Fiojja Yes that's most certainly the case and I am as well "fine" with that in terms of not getting my experience ruined by it. But at the same time, my experience would get enchanced by having a bit more believable world with more thought put into it.


      @linkthezora If "it's a fantasy game" really is the only answer, why is there a theory-section on this forum? People like to think, discuss, analyze and come up with logical solutions to questions that seems strange... that's what the endless timeline-discussions were all about. And as I said previously, even for a fantasy game there should in my opinion be some kind of outer framwork where all fits in in a logical way. Even in a fantasy world you can't just walk in the air or shit gold (perhaps in some worlds lol) but certainly not in the Zelda universe. Fantasy doesn't equals to "everything is possible in every fantasy world"... Each fantasy world should have its own rules, limitations and laws. That's pretty much it.

      It seems to be a bit of confusion here as well, since Link's 100 years of sleep was possible due to ancient technology, which is a very good excuse in my opinion... we have not a single clue what will and what will not be possible to do technologywise in the future. Personally I am a very "optimistic" type when it comes to science... I think stuff like stopping the aging process is a very reasonable possibility theoretically. We are aging for a biological reason, I really don't see why there wouldn't be a way to slow that down or prevent it altogether. Sure it may not be a reality until like at the very least in thousands of years or so (probably a lot longer), as long as we don't start a world war which takes us back to the stone age... but I certainly don't see it as unrealistic. And I don't understand why you are bringing up different species like the Zoras (Mipha) as if that would be so inconceivable to think that different intelligent lifeforms could arise in a different universes? If the multiverse-theory is true (which I personally believe in btw) there should exist all kinds of weird lifeforms out there, including intelligent lifeforms that looks like "fish people".

      And yes as I said earlier, I can give the series leeways here and there... you know I do play Zelda for its gameplay-qualities and not for its lore, but when we are discussing logic in the Zelda series (like the male Goron issue) I would prefer to take it seriously for once. It's not like I have troubles to sleep at night because of this lol, I don't care that much about its lore for the most part but rather its gameplay, but even the Zelda series deserves more consistency and some kind of logical framework. Zelda may not be mass effect or the Lords of the Rings, but it is FAR MORE than Mario or Donkey Kong. And to make it very clear because it could look like this really bothers me, it really doesn't when I play... even though the experience could enhance further if they actually started to put more effort to put the pieces together. It may not bother me that much, but I do at the same time appreciate details, as I did with the brilliant Gossip Stones in Ocarina of Time where I found out for example that the Gerudos every once in a while searched for boyfriends at castle town or something. Breath of the Wild should have had Gossip Stones btw. ^^

      The post was edited 2 times, last by MVS ().