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    Self Post Positioning in Temple
    • So in Temple your own posts are now aligned to the right, I'm assuming it's to emulate most IM software these days which has the same function. Maybe I'll get used to it but at least right now i wanna say it's not really working I think. IM only has three portions of information, the author of a message, the timestamp and the message itself. So it kinda works. With the forum there's loads more like signatures, points, user titles, avatars etc. and it makes it look a little chaotic, or at least hard to follow with my eye.
      If I had to suggest a fix I'd say either reduce the amount of information on the screen, maybe have things like points, steam name and whatever in hoverover or align all the posts together, and have authors on one side or the other. I think that'd be easier to read though idk probably ruins the aesthetic.



      why would trump support the vikings
    • This is something that I think takes a little bit to get used to. When I first added it to the design, when it was under development, it was pretty jarring, and I considered removing it right away. After a few days, though, I couldn't imagine not having it. We'll see how people feel about this feature after a few weeks!

      I've marked this thread as "under consideration" as a reminder to see how folks feel about this feature in the coming weeks.
    • Yeah, I really do not like this either. It causes the posts to not flow as smoothly and calls more attention to the wasted space on the sides. Even my friend, who doesn't use forums/the internet in general very much, said it was off-putting.

      And like Dolce said, I know what my posts look like because of my avatar. This kind of IM layout would really only make sense if this were a text-only forum.
    • So, I've decided to start experimenting with possible improvements to the orientation swap. Again, this won't happen immediately - I'll be giving this a few weeks to see where people settle in.

      From what I'm hearing, the issue isn't even that the margins are huge or that posts aren't wide enough, but the fact that posts become jarringly misaligned when the sidebar swaps orientation, which draws attention to the margins and makes posts feel cramped. That's just my hunch, though.

      I wondered if I could kill two birds with one stone and decrease the margins on the side while lining up posts better, like most standard messaging apps do. The downside is that messages don't perfectly line up with thread control buttons. What do you guys think?

    • ich Will wrote:

      The thing that instantly stands out to me as the biggest problem is how crammed stuff is into the center, like when you're looking at a list of threads.


      insaney wrote:

      The new temple layout just increases how horrible it uses space. Thumbnails on the index page, the way the posts in threads are laid out (it's squashed further to the center of the skin, and gives you more screen space on the left and right, the way your own post just looks... not uniform at all. In fact everything looks squashed and cluttered), etc. Even if you did fix how the posts are laid out, there's still the glaring voids on the left and right.


      sierra wrote:

      calls more attention to the wasted space on the sides.


      From what I'm hearing, people do have an issue with the huge margins.
    • sierra wrote:

      From what I'm hearing, people do have an issue with the huge margins.

      Part of design is looking past what people say and understanding what they mean. All of those comments relate to how margins affect the alignment of content. The margin is becoming the scapegoat for a potentially deeper issue of readability. That's not to say the margins aren't involved in the issue, but they're a symptom, not a cause.

      That said, all of this could be moot since people are simply not used to the orientation swap, which is why it'll be several weeks before any changes are implemented.
    • Mobile devices can get away with stuff non-standard alignments because those screens are small enough that the whole thing remains mostly in your field of focus anyway. This is not so on actual monitors, and as English is a language that reads left-to-right, it is much more intuitive to have the panel on the left, so that you immediately know who is the author of a given post. That people can get used to it looking to the right for the info panel instead does not change the fact that it is counter-intuitive design.

      But, y'know, I didn't like Temple anyway and immediately switched to Throwback upon learning of it, so the alternating alignment doesn't actually affect me in any way. *shrugs*
    • Margin and proportionality issues came up and were ignored in the last revamp.

      We'll see how people feel about this feature after a few weeks!


      Part of design is looking past what people say and understanding what they mean.


      That said, all of this could be moot since people are simply not used to the orientation swap, which is why it'll be several weeks before any changes are implemented.


      You don't have any intention of accepting feedback, do you? It's quite obvious. It's fine if you drop the pretence.
    • Jason wrote:

      Part of design is looking past what people say and understanding what they mean.

      I study English and literature, which means I analyze what people say all the time. Maybe I can help you with that. :)

      In ich Will's post, there was zero mention of the orientation swapping or alignment, simply that everything was cramped. He also used "looking at a list of threads" as his example instead of individual posts, which further supports that he sees the margins as a universal problem rather than "a symptom" of the swapped orientations.

      In insaney's post, he says, "The new temple layout just increases how horrible it uses space." The keywords here are "new" and "increases." He's indicating that this was also a problem with previous versions of Temple and it is only a bigger problem now.

      In my post, I did point to the margins as "a symptom, not a cause." However, I recall bringing up the issue with you on Slack (along with several others) when I was a mod. This happened before you had included orientation swapping in the screenshots, so our issue with the margins would have been a symptom of the margins themselves. At the time, we were basically told that our status as mods made our opinions on the theme matter less than that of regular users and that the margins were not going to change because they were the optimal width for readability, in your opinion. So forgive me if I seem to be pushing this margin thing too hard or coming off as "hostile," but I have some pent-up frustration from feeling previously blown off so many times. I'm hoping my lack of a mod banner will cause you to consider my feedback a little more seriously this time.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by orchid ().

    • interestingdrug wrote:

      You don't have any intention of accepting feedback, do you? It's quite obvious. It's fine if you drop the pretence.

      There's no pretense; I've already made a number of changes to the design based on peoples' feedback, which you can see already. I've also posted a mockup of one of my experiments with the margins, so I don't see where you'd ever get the idea that I'm not accepting feedback. Just because the results of past experiments with margins have disagreed with your opinions doesn't mean I ignored the feedback.

      Knee-jerk reactions are not good design, so we don't make them. For important decisions, we run extensive user testing before we ship. If the results of that testing say that people overwhelmingly don't mind the margins, then we don't change them. If the results say the opposite, then we do change them. Collecting this data takes time, especially for more visually dramatic changes. Since the new skin has been available for just a single day, we don't have enough data to make conclusive decisions about changes to overall thread flow.

      That said, I'm going to put this to a close before it gets any more hostile. Here's the final word on margins and post alignment: Your comments have been heard, and this is officially under consideration. We'll be gathering usage data over the coming weeks, and asking select people how they feel about the margins at regular time intervals to see if it's just new skin shock.

      If/when we decide to update this, I'll update this thread!