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Mafia XXII: Tales of Mafia - Yggdrasil's dream (GAME OVER)
  • Argenteus wrote:

    Also: Why did they go after who they did. Bombchu and Empty seem to me like low priority targets compared to Demon (It's obvious why they're high priority) or Foo. This strikes me as being evidence that Foo might be mafia, since he as town wouldn't be as likely to be protected as Demon and is an INCREDIBLY talented player.

    Given EmptyStar's role it is best to assume he was not targeted. He died via Hider accident.

    Also, Mafia work in mysterious ways. They may not target high-profile players just to keep discussion going, or because they believe early in the game investigators will be targeting them. It is counter-intuitive to say "This person may be scum because they aren't dead."

    EDIT: Or english, the claimed doctor. But you know I suspect he's scum.

    If you have any objections to the list I made above as to why I should not be suspected please feel free to address them with me.

    Sabbo wrote:

    I'm... not? I never claimed that, and I'm not sure how you thought I did.

    Ah, my mistake. For a moment I forgot EmptyStar was the Hider.

    Well, my role ability hints that there may be more than one killing role active in the game. So I may say that I prevented a kill last night, but I will not reveal who that was yet.
  • Two townie deaths is not a good thing to wake up to. I think we should really be looking at the wagons yesterday for Scribe and Ruki to come up with potential lynch candidates.

    @English
    I see where you're coming from on the blackbird/Doctor argument. I'll keep that in the back of my mind for later in the day if nothing else surfaces. That's quite an interesting statement for someone to make about a doctor that has roleclaimed.
    "Time passes, people move.... Like a rivers flow, it never ends... A childish mind will turn to noble ambition... Young love will become deep affection... The clear water's surface reflects growth..."

    Saving a link here: Mafia XI: Ace Attorney -- Night Four: Serial Killers and Serial Gamblers.

    "you came up with the idea, so youre the genius here"
    ~Malia

    "F*** you, you ain't no Barnes. Yousa scrub, honey."
  • I still don't understand, Sabbo. Please reword?

    Sabbo wrote:

    Hider targets a person and becomes untargetable that night.

    Sometimes text can be feigned (pro-town lookable if the player is Mafia), so I'd read what they said + trying to pair that up with intuition. But for Day 2 I am going to stay back silent so to focus on what's said by other players, since I notice that I MISSED a lot of posts when I reply to the game thread because it took so long to load pages, to get my post delivered and all that time can be cut off, save them for reading instead.

    EDIT: Damn you broken touchscreen for messing up my spellings!

    English wrote:

    Are all of your suspicions going to be based on gut feeling, or will you actually have some reads/text analysis?
  • A lot of chaos early in the day. Let's coordinate before we start gabbing please!

    General recommendations, wait for town sign off before acting on any of them.

    1) English should tell us who he targeted. Losing a tracker makes it unlikely we can take advantage of that sort of intel BUT in the case that we do find out we're missing a night kill knowing a person is protected is weak Bayesian evidence for their innocence.

    2) A cop should claim if they've identified scum. Even with the double townie death at night we're ahead and can stay ahead by trading one for ones. English surviving is also evidence against a Mafia strong kill which means a cop claimant likely survives the night.

    3) That being said, a watcher should not claim at this point, even if they have incriminating evidence. If we *are* going to lose our doc then we need a watcher to end game with.

    4) Very possible we'll see an even day vig show up. If that's the case remember that we want a kill late enough to allow a reasonable defence but early enough to allow us to pick a second target. Aim for around noon EST tomorrow.

    5) I held it to the end last night for the element of surprise, but in general I'll take the last vote on any wagon I believe in as to absorb bomb hits.

    In general, good night last night! Looking forward to a prodctive day.
    ~~~
    Although postsocratics like St. Augustine and Judith Butler explored a diverse set of ethical and metaphysical ideas, their unifying feature as a movement was a principled refusal to speculate upon which of the four elements the world was made out of.
    ~~~


    boxes is the best human and I am going to get her a kitten or 2 kittens
  • Foo wrote:

    In general, good night last night! Looking forward to a prodctive day.


    Forgetting a u in productive, is this more cypher play??!! kappa
    "Time passes, people move.... Like a rivers flow, it never ends... A childish mind will turn to noble ambition... Young love will become deep affection... The clear water's surface reflects growth..."

    Saving a link here: Mafia XI: Ace Attorney -- Night Four: Serial Killers and Serial Gamblers.

    "you came up with the idea, so youre the genius here"
    ~Malia

    "F*** you, you ain't no Barnes. Yousa scrub, honey."
  • I actually find it unfathomable how a player would think Foo was the best protection last night lmao, really? I count about four players -- and I'm including myself -- with a very strong pro-town case, and Foo has done nothing thus far, or worse, he's been advocated by Ruki and he held out on voting at the pivotal stage, so he's a suspicious player. Between a confirmed IC, solidly claimed Doc and a few members bearing responsibility for the Ruki lynch, there were significantly better options.
  • English wrote:

    blackbird wrote:

    English is still alive too ... I'm not sure whether to believe his doctor claim. He's managed to survive the night and anyone would think that the mafia would have gunned for him tonight. However, he also hasn't been counter-claimed. I'm not exactly sure if that absolves him though, since it can be silly to counter-claim as a doctor this early in the game. I don't know what to make of this.

    You really are suspicious of me?
    1. Ruki gave me the majority vote yesterday before I claimed. And there were other reasonable lynch options besides me. If I were mafia she would have been shooting her own team in the foot.
    2. I claimed Doctor, and alerted all of the town's watchers (and similar roles) to target me and/or protect me. Would the Mafia really take that risk? It was wise for them to not gun for me.
    3. No Doctor would ever counter-claim a Doctor. There may be two Doctors in this game, there may not be. But a Doctor counter-claim means nothing


    I guess I can see the reasoning here for the most part. Ruki's vote could have been a bus vote, but ... I get the feeling they probably weren't.

    I still don't trust you completely, and I feel that it's wise to err on the side of caution. But I'm also not going to pursue you for a lynch at this point in time.
  • Demon Fox wrote:

    I still don't understand, Sabbo. Please reword?


    The Hider chooses a player to hide behind. The Hider then cannot successfully be targeted by any action that night (regardless of whether it is a good or bad action)... aside from Strong kills (kills performed by a Strongman, Strong Vigilante or Strong Serial Killer role), which bypass such protections. The person they have hidden behind is given no indication that there is somebody hiding behind them.
  • English wrote:

    Also, Mafia work in mysterious ways. They may not target high-profile players just to keep discussion going, or because they believe early in the game investigators will be targeting them. It is counter-intuitive to say "This person may be scum because they aren't dead."

    Mafia doesn't want to keep discussion going. Silence benefits them. Investigators is valid, but even if you KNEW an investigative role would be watching, trading a normal mafia member for a townie foo would still arguably be worth it. It is perfectly logical to say "This person may be scum since they aren't dead". If a perfect target isn't dead, that's evidence that they're scum. Not fully incriminating evidence, but evidence.


    If you have any objections to the list I made above as to why I should not be suspected please feel free to address them with me.

    Everything you said IS evidence, I simply don't believe it's sufficient evidence. That said, you're not a high priority to immediately lynch, since a doctor claim is falsifiable.
  • So there's a fair bit of information to gain from last night's vote. Not sure why Silver is listed as on the Ruki bandwagon, maybe we have a doublevoter role around this game.

    Silver wrote:

    Final vote count:

    Ruki (8) - Cody, interestingdrug, Jaime Lannister, Kae, Argenteus, Foo, Fluttershy, Silver
    Jaime Lannister (3) - Sabbo, Scribe of Spirit, Malon
    JP the Neurotic (1) - Demon Fox
    Scribe of Spirit (3)- blackbird, Ty, Sam Nornal
    English (2) - Bombchu Girl, HeyBlinkin
    Argenteus (4) - JP the Neurotic, Ruki, LuckyDan, English


    Abstaining: EmptyStar, Shayface


    Based on what we know now, I'd colour in the roles a bit like this. (Bold for GM confirmed)

    Ruki (8) - Cody, interestingdrug, Jaime Lannister, Kae, Argenteus, Foo, Fluttershy, Silver
    Jaime Lannister (3) - Sabbo, Scribe of Spirit, Malon
    JP the Neurotic (1) - Demon Fox
    Scribe of Spirit (3)- blackbird, Ty, Sam Nornal
    English (2) - Bombchu Girl, HeyBlinkin
    Argenteus (4) - JP the Neurotic, Ruki, LuckyDan, English


    Abstaining: EmptyStar, Shayface

    Myself, ID and Jaime I am tagging green for having an instrumental role in lynching Ruki, and tagging English and Argenteus because they were who Ruki tried to foist the lynch onto.

    Foo, Kae and Fluttershy appeared on the Ruki lynch also but in the last 10 minutes on a bit of a bandwagon, Kae in particular switched votes like 4 times in that last hour and Foo voted when there was little chance of it affecting the outcome.
  • I apologize for my inactivity Day 1. I was going to provide my reasoning for voting Jaime but I got stuck with driving home (some friends and I went out to eat while on a trip. I voted but we left while I was writing my explanation so I never posted it. By time we got home the Day was over).

    My reason for voting him was because up to that point there were no real leads to go on yet. I wasn't going to place an aribitary vote. Plus there was talk of heading into a No Lynch which was something I felt was too early to be talking about, I wasn't going to vote No lynch.
  • Foo wrote:

    1) English should tell us who he targeted. Losing a tracker makes it unlikely we can take advantage of that sort of intel BUT in the case that we do find out we're missing a night kill knowing a person is protected is weak Bayesian evidence for their innocence.

    Not so fast, Foo. I know how to hold my cards, and I'm not letting the little piece of info that I may have slip away. Revealing it now means very little: it means so much more if there is evidence of its usefulness in future days.

    Shayface wrote:

    @English
    I see where you're coming from on the blackbird/Doctor argument. I'll keep that in the back of my mind for later in the day if nothing else surfaces. That's quite an interesting statement for someone to make about a doctor that has roleclaimed.

    Hey, I just call 'em as I see 'em. That's just how Doctors work.

    blackbird wrote:

    I guess I can see the reasoning here for the most part. Ruki's vote could have been a bus vote, but ... I get the feeling they probably weren't.

    I still don't trust you completely, and I feel that it's wise to err on the side of caution. But I'm also not going to pursue you for a lynch at this point in time.

    I would choose to believe that if any mafia were on the Ruki wagon, it would be either Cody and/or (a) player(s) who jumped on the wagon at the very end. Before I claimed in the last 30 minutes there was no reason to lynch Ruki, and even after I claimed many people started jumping to Ruki and Argenteus.

    Silver wrote:

    GM Rule: Any use of the word "kappa" that is not referring to the Japanese mythological creature will result in a modkill. :v:



    Argenteus wrote:

    Mafia doesn't want to keep discussion going. Silence benefits them. Investigators is valid, but even if you KNEW an investigative role would be watching, trading a normal mafia member for a townie foo would still arguably be worth it. It is perfectly logical to say "This person may be scum since they aren't dead". If a perfect target isn't dead, that's evidence that they're scum. Not fully incriminating evidence, but evidence.

    One-for-ones are not beneficial to mafia at all. End of story. We have 2-3 players for every 1 player they have (in theory), so a one-for-one would always hurt mafia. They would not take the risk if they were reasonable. I would also argue that a player being alive is not "evidence" at all, unless you make it "coincidental evidence", which means nothing until after the game is over. The mafia get one kill, and if the town knows that somebody is a "prime" target for the mafia, the mafia may go to somebody else. There could also be that a player was attacked and healed or the killer got roleblocked or so many other possibilities you can't speak for.

    Everything you said IS evidence, I simply don't believe it's sufficient evidence. That said, you're not a high priority to immediately lynch, since a doctor claim is falsifiable.

    I never said it was evidence. I just listed a number of facts that suggest that I am highly unlikely to be mafia. :cookiemonster:

    interestingdrug wrote:

    If anyone wants to vote for English, do it now so I can vote for you before I go to bed.

  • As for the wagon started on me. I was expecting it, in fact the whole way I figured I'd log on to find I'd been lynched. The bad thing about being inactive is that you can't defend yourself, therefore it's easy for scum to manipulate a lynch for an inactive player.

    I want to know why people felt lynching me, knowing I'd probably be inactive, was more beneficial than voting an active player?
  • Checking in. Quite apparent that our Hider hid behind a mafia player.

    Bombchu Girl was probably a random choice for the scum, a decision to pick anyone besides English. The same thing happened last game when I claimed Doctor, the mafia chat showed them contimplating going for another play to leave the heat on me. I believe they're doing the same to English.

    I have to agree with ... uh I forget who said it, but someone said Lucky Dan is their number one suspect. I can agree with this since he placed a vote on Arg instead of Ruki without much of a reason.