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    DC Cinematic Universe
    • TDK ended with him falling off a building; a fall that killed another man. TDKR made it very clear that his knee was absolutely ruined by it and he spent that entire movie with a leg brace on under the suit. On top of which, he neglected himself because throughout the trilogy, it's HEAVILY implied that Bruce suffers from a deep, near-suicidal depression ever since the death of his parents due to survivor's guilt. If the beard and general disinterest shown in his appearance coupled with the extended reclusion at the start of TDKR didn't give that away, I don't know what would. The sequence with the climbing out of the pit was supposed to symbolise a lifting of that depression by forcing him to examine his fear of death and reasons to live.
    • (I completely forgot about this thread)

      DoLeo wrote:

      TDK ended with him falling off a building; a fall that killed another man. TDKR made it very clear that his knee was absolutely ruined by it and he spent that entire movie with a leg brace on under the suit. On top of which, he neglected himself because throughout the trilogy, it's HEAVILY implied that Bruce suffers from a deep, near-suicidal depression ever since the death of his parents due to survivor's guilt. If the beard and general disinterest shown in his appearance coupled with the extended reclusion at the start of TDKR didn't give that away, I don't know what would. The sequence with the climbing out of the pit was supposed to symbolise a lifting of that depression by forcing him to examine his fear of death and reasons to live.
      Bane broke his back in the comics and he was able to recover and went back to being Batman. A broke back, I'm sure, is a lot more severe than a broken leg. One of Bruce's defining traits is how apparently durable he is. He's been through A LOT worse than a broken leg. Fighting with multiple fractures, concussions, wounds, copious amounts of blood loss; Decon BlackFire's coalition almost killed him if Jason didn't arrive in time not to mention what the Court of Owls did to him. I'd go on but you get the point. That broken leg isn't much a good reason.

      Bruce(at least not blatantly) never showed anything related to survivors guilt. The comics always show him wanting to avenge his parents and if there's any emotional trauma due to his parents' murder it's the vengefulness he experiences everyday. Not only that, a part of his training when he was to become Batman was to help him fight with whatever else kind of pain and trauma he may have felt. If he was still feeling that well after he became Batman then the training obviously didn't take. Yes, he's human but the training was to help him cope with it and if he's still dealing with those demons then it was evidently a waste(never mind the fact we only see him actually train with one person in the first movie).


      Holden wrote:

      Keyaki wrote:

      Besides that's not excuse because he should know to keep up his training regardless of how much he aged.
      Did Bruce give up being Batman between movies...? Why would he keep up with his training?
      It's been awhile since I saw them but if I recall correctly, 8 years past in-betwen the 2nd and 3rd movies where Gotham didn't see Batman at all and Bruce let himself waste away in depression. If he kept up with his training, I must've missed it.
    • It's not that he had a broken leg; it's that he had done so much damage to himself as Batman that the cartilage was basically gone from his knees, among other irreversible damage that you can't just willpower away. His doctor commented that he had the knees of an old man. You say Batman's defining trait is how durable he is? I say his defining trait is that he's human. The movies stick to this defining trait more faithfully than even the comics do - by acknowledging that no man can defy time and physics and depicting Batman as suffering their ravages. And TDKR even sticks to YOUR defining trait by depicting him saving Gotham DESPITE these disadvantages.

      And the comics don't indicate survivor's guilt? You clearly haven't read Batman RIP or the rest of Morrison's run. Again, as a human being, he has to have SOME emotional issues. You can't train away your humanity.

      As for the movies only showing him training with one dude? He specifically says to Ducard that he's spent years studying all sorts of things like how to fight, how criminals think, etc. He didn't learn all those martial arts he employs against Ducard in the "this is not a dance" fight from a book. The film just doesn't tediously enumerate all his training, because it knows that most of us can infer that other training happened offscreen.
    • DoLeo wrote:

      His doctor commented that he had the knees of an old man.
      That I do remember now that you mention it


      DoLeo wrote:

      And the comics don't indicate survivor's guilt? You clearly haven't read Batman RIP or the rest of Morrison's run. Again, as a human being, he has to have SOME emotional issues. You can't train away your humanity.
      Admittedly, no I havent read RIP and I've heard bits and pieces of Morrisons work despite knowing what what's going on at the current moment as well as some past major events like when his son was killed.
    • A coherent story with a plot that makes sense, a hero that you can actually like and doesn't trash an entire city at the end, and fight scenes that are just fun. Had to double check that this was a DC movie. I don't if it was having a female director, someone realizing the mistakes they made with prior movies or the fact all we had to compare it to was a 70's TV show. There were Times I said out "Oh hell yeah, go kick their ass Diana!" This is somebody who's relegated to snarking in tight outfits (Black Widow) and there to be love interests for the guys to save at the end (MoS Lois and most women in the Marvel movies) Yeah Diana has a love interest she sleeps with. Doesn't stop her from up and leaving him to go kick the bad guys asses.
      I'd say WW is up there after Dark Knight as my favorite.
      This was DC finally saying and then actually having a hero movie you could match against Marvel IMO

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Darth_Phoenix ().

    • Wonder Woman was phenomenal. Best superhero flick I've seen in years.

      When you talk about the most accurate castings of all time, Gal Gadot now needs to be in the conversation. I don't know if there's ever been a more passionate, earnest performance in an adaption. She captured everything that is great about the character.

      It's resonated with me more over the last couple days even than when I first walked out of the theater. I can't stop thinking about it. This movie perfectly balanced an uplifting hero's journey with an absolutely sobering reminder of the cost that comes with challenging evil.

      I'm just so happy that they got this one right. Wonder Woman has been one of my favorite heroes for years. Few characters have been more deserving of this reverence.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Mirren ().

    • right im gonna give proper views now for ww movie. have had a few days to mull over it and, real talk, im still head over heels for it <3

      i'll start first with the critique

      Display Spoiler
      some of the impractical costume design made me roll my eyes, like that sword down her back while at the gala lmao. that made not a lick of sense xD and seriously who the fuck isnt gonna notice a goddamn sword hilt sticking out between her shoulder blades. -that- was done because they didnt want to compromise the sexy blue dress she was wearing, so it was a moment of visual sex appeal over what makes practical sense for a trained warrior. made me groan a little lol.

      there were other impractical costume designs, like her strappy roman sandals being -wedges- rather than flats, like ok wedges arent as difficult to walk in as high heels, but if youre gonna be doing all those flips and rolling high with your acrobatic skills and dex saves, then uh yeah wedges are gonna impose a little there lol.

      im an artist guys and the kinda comic book fan who has grated her teeth over the years at ridiculous costume designs lol, im gonna nitpick here <3 xoxoxox

      end fight was amazing but i found myself getting impatient with seeing what was going on with chris pines' char (i dont even remember his name lol D: ). i mean i understand WHY that was happening, as his death became something that helped solidify diana's final choices with which direction she would take. i just wasnt as interested in that as i was really invested in the fucking GOD FIGHT that was happening.

      i have mixed feelings regarding ares himself. in the comics hes gone through a fair few dramatic changes, incl being the worn, older gentleman who is more of a mentor/teacher to diana, vs other designs that incl him being more like the actual god of war ares. not sure if they were trying to mix those together here? i did like the idea of him being an ignored politician preaching peace, but i dunno, the big reveal seemed a little too obv to me?

      ... but thats basically it? like seriously. i cant think of anything else lol


      the good

      Display Spoiler
      ok

      so

      diana blew me away. she was genuine and kind and strong and honourable and funny and direct and aaahhhhh she was everything wonder woman is meant to be. she was my fave part of the batsup movie and im soooo glad shes continuing that streak with me here. i was legit worried about her getting her own movie esp after suicide squard and batsup. i was nervous she was gonna be given the michael bay treatment ie lotsa explosions and pantie shots and explosions and boobs and explosions and pantie shots, which would've ... legit made me give up on the DC movies lol. but thats not what happened. she was was incredible <3

      STEVE, that was his name, diana's squeeze haha. well, he was ok but shone best when he interacted with diana, which was the point really. i loved their chemistry when they would argue with each other *_*

      i loved the final battle. like hnnngh adored it. i mean, this was supposed to be a battle between the children of zues, so it shouldve been as over the top and dramatic and explosive as it was shown in the movie.

      i enjoyed how ares fought, you know, that v final boss-type thing where they levitate calmly and make all this scary shit happen while the protag is hurling themselves at the villain with all their might, but still getting their ass handed to them. its a scenario i never get sick of seeing lol, prob because i play too much d&d xD. also appreciated that he relied on his telekinesis powers a lot in that, and how he made his own armor/weapons. sooo cooooool.

      im sorry, but can i just praise gadot more? lol i really loved her portrayal of diana @_@

      you know, im not usually a fan of fight scenes that abuse the slow-mo thing to emphasise certain parts of the fight. just feel its overdone. but... i actually enjoyed it in this movie. it was fun. really really fun.

      i love that diana was challenged at the end and had a serious moment of wanting to give up on the human race. she went into this with a v black and white view, but came out understanding flaws and darkness exist as well as goodness and light in all humans. she had to suffer a serious loss to learn, but she did learn. i love that she was put in that position.

      ive not been blown away by the portrayal of a super female char since jessica jones. jj is still top of my list, but having it up on the big screen is a different ball game. as a p die-hard feminist who has loved comic books since age 5, i've been waiting a looooong time to have a female super char movie who isnt treated as a stepping stone to make another char look cool, or made entirely for eye candy, or used as dev for another char to find themselves with no benefit to herself. shit like that. wonder woman, for the most part, hit every right mark for me and i just. i dunno. i needed to see that and i didnt realise how much i wanted it until i walked out of that theatre haha.

      oh and also noting im SO FUCKING GLAD we didnt get some dumb joke about her name like "YOU'RE SOME KIND OF WOOOONDER WOMAN." uggghhhh lmao.

      ... final praise for diana, i promise. she was aslkjfsalk great. i will marry her 10x.


      all in all, wonder woman is literally one of my fave super movies ever. its right up there with the dark knight, the incredibles, lego batman, gotg 1/2. good god i hope dc can keep this up. please lol. batsup and suicide squad murdered me. wonder woman used a phoenix down on me.

      pls dc. i believe in you again. kick some ass!


      The post was edited 1 time, last by Malia ().

    • Concerning the climax:
      Display Spoiler
      Was anybody else almost expecting there to not be an Ares and show that Steve was right? That it was just humans being a-holes. Yeah we needed the big final fight but for a second there "Wait what if is actually metaphorical...?" Figured it was either that or Ares was actually Dr. Poison (who disappeared after Diana didn't crush her) Really enjoyed the e though, Ares didn't outright make the bad guys do bad things he was just very selective about who he put the ideas in.
    • i thought it was really good, best dceu film thus far. Maybe not as technically good as man of steel, and i did have a few lil issues here and there, but i definitely enjoyed it.

      Display Spoiler


      I thought the fighting peaked like, in the middle in that NML/city fight which was really good. The ares fight was like... idk i think it's difficult to have two gods fighting like that and keep in the interesting/unique choreography that made earlier fights so cool.

      Ares like.. are we sure he is the 'god of truth'? cause he was wielding zeus' lightning which mythologically could only be wielded by zeus himself iirc - it's how he ruled the gods. So only way i can see ares doing that is if he was the god of war who i think could 'wield any weapon' in the comic books.

      I liked his cast choice/aesthetic tho - it did feel very ares as i know him (tho a lil junkyardish lol - in the comics can't he just materialise actual weapons rather than just junk?)


      on the other hand, it has a solid female cast, i think it did manic pixie dream girl to like, a pretty ayt level like i only felt it was cheesy/too much once or twice. Origin story that actually maintained a sense of character too, which can be difficult for a lot of films i think since it's so formulaic - it definitely could've been a thor/captain american 1 hybrid with a female lead but it felt nothing like that. Dr Poison was a super cool character even if she didn't get as much characterisation as i liked. It fridged a dude to further a woman's plot as well. Which yes is a + to me.
    • Just watched it

      Display Spoiler

      1. I really liked how they didn't make too big a deal of her being a woman, like they did it the exact right amount because in WW1 people would be treating her a particular way, but that's not what the plot was about, it was more universal about the dark side of human nature and stuff
      2. I really liked the theme which I think Steve summed up pretty well by saying "I wish there was one bad guy we could blame all of this on but this is actually all of our faults"
      3. I like that he didn't shy away from his own flaws when making that statement and that's why when Ares says "I didn't force them to do anything, they did this themselves" it's not as effective at turning Diana against humanity because he already accepted that and made a compelling case for why humanity was worth saving anyway.
      4. I knew Ludendorff wasn't Ares but I genuinely wasn't expecting Sir Patrick to be. Well played, movie. Not often that twists catch me by surprise.
      5. Steve didn't get "fridged" to advance Diana's character arc, he had agency the whole way so it doesn't count as fridging, it's a Heroic Sacrifice. This is a good thing however since fridging is generally bad writing (even when GRR Martin kills characters "randomly", it's almost always due to their own tragically stupid/naive decisions, so that's not fridging either).
      6. I feel like Charlie freezing during battle was a narrative loose end that never got tied up.
      7. I liked the no man's land sequence and the sequence leading up to it because I feel it pretty well captured how overwhelming it would be to be someone who cares about EVERYTHING and be exposed to so many different crises happening at once, expertly demonstrating HOW someone could get desensitised to human suffering, with Steve's resignation to the fact that "we can't save everyone". Then Diana sees the no man's land situation and decides "I can solve most of these problems by taking the enemy position" which obviously everyone would LOVE but had given up on. Kinda weird that the theme seems to be "the best way to peace and minimising human suffering is by winning war quickly and decisively", since thats not exactly the same as being pro-peace, but it IS realistic.
      7. I was annoyed that the Germans were "the bad guys" - it's WW1, not WW2. But then again Ares had to convince the British generals to even consider peace so that kinda shows both sides were pretty bloodthirsty.
      8. I liked the pacing, the characterisation had space to breathe.
      9. Ares is almost certainly not fully dead


      It's late and that's all I can think of right now
    • What I find interesting is they implied in BvS that WW went back to the Amazons after dealing with World War 1. End of this one clearly points to her staying around longer. I can fully believe World War 2 would make her go "Yeah you people suck, I'm out of here". If they wanna retcon her being around longer I'm totally fine with that.