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    Thoughts on Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
    • Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess is a game for the Nintendo Wii and an installment in the long-running and successful Legend of Zelda series. It was released back in 2006 during the launch of the Nintendo Wii, and is considered one of the best games in the franchise due to its gameplay, story, and visual style.

      Twilight Princess has been a favorite game of mine since it first came out. Back in '06, I got the Wii on launch day, and this was the first game I played on it. It was the definitive must-have title when the Wii first released. I have played through it multiple times, and have accrued hundreds of gameplay hours over multiple save files. There are few games I have played, explored and learned about more than this game.


      It is this admitted obsession with Twilight Princess that makes me dumbstruck to learn many fans of the Zelda series are actually dissatisfied with this game, with some of them even bold enough to say that the game was bad. Certain players say it's bland, or unimaginative. Others say the game makes a cheap and cliché attempt to create an atmosphere that is dark and depressing. These so-called fans must not have paid attention while playing, otherwise they would have seen the immense depth that is conveyed through the game's story.

      This game is not dark. It's not trying to be moody, either. The theme of Twilight Princess is not darkness, it's beauty. The beauty found in everything held dear.

      The atmosphere of the game, particularly the parts that take place in the Twilight Realm do envelop you in a somber setting, but that does not make it forcefully moody and depressing. When you stop for a moment and take stock of the world around you, you see that it has a distinct and surreal majesty to it, made most evident by the colors of the environment and dusk lighting. The character Midna, a resident of the dimension known as the Twilight Realm, at times defends her home, and makes the serene beauty known to the other characters and the player. It is a beauty that is overlooked and refused by those not accepting of it, but is still to be appreciated.

      This love of something Midna finds beautiful gives the players a starting point for the motifs that are prevalent in the game. The idea of loving something you hold dear and valuing what you do have, and the reverse idea of not being content and envying what is not yours.

      Midna is one of three characters that best exemplify the concept of loving what they have and desiring to defend and preserve it. The other two are Princess Zelda, and Link, the game's main protagonist. They have all had something they love be taken from them, and later fight to reclaim whatever it is they lost. Midna wishes to reclaim her lost home, which has been turned into a hostile land under the control of an evil king bent of conquering Hyrule. Zelda wants to restore her kingdom and free it and her people from the invading Twilight. Link desires to rescue his friends who were taken by the invaders and defend his homeland. Each of them see the beauty and value in what it is they treasure. They don't need to have more then what they already treasure.

      The total opposite motives of Midna, Zelda and Link are displayed in the game's atagonist: Zant, the Dark Interlopers and Ganondorf. These villains’ hearts are filled with malice and envy, and seek to take what they do not have.

      Zant is the one who took control of the Twilight Realm and deformed it and its inhabitants. All Zant ever wanted was to be king of the Twilight Realm, and developed great bitterness and anger when the title was not passed to him. In his jealousy and hatred he let himself become the tool for Ganondorf’s schemes, and began his agenda to rule the Twilight Realm and sink Hyrule into darkness. Zant entire motivation was to punish people for possessing what he could not have, and taking what did not belong to him.

      Though not a as directly important to the plot as Zant or Ganondorf, the Dark Interlopers set the groundwork for what the main villains desired to accomplish.They were magic users that excelled in black magic, and were one of many groups that throughout the course ofHylian history tried to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm. The only difference between them and the others was their source of power, the Fused Shadow. It was a power they created, and in their arrogance tried to use it to take the Sacred Realm, and by extension the Triforce. Because of this they were seen as challengers to the power of the goddesses, who sent the Light Spirits to defeat the Interlopers and banish them to dimension that later became known as the Twilight Realm. These Dark Interlopers allowed their lust for power to make them behave carelessly and arrogantly, and were punished accordingly for it.

      Lastly is Ganondorf, the true villain of the game and greatest threat to Hyrule. He is by far the most extreme example of a character that desires nothing more than to take from others. Ganondorf wants conquer everyone and everything, and has the power to do so. You learn as you play through the game that Ganondorf was supposed to have died. He was a thief who was caught, apprehended, and put death, but the Triforce of Power kept him alive. Surviving his execution was more enough to put Ganondorf over the edge, and fill his heart with enough pride and arrogance to make him believe himself all-powerful. He would stop at nothing in his quest to take control of Hyrule, and make himself its king.

      Every villain wanted something that was not theirs. They only saw and desired what belonged to someone else. This combination of greed and jealousy was ultimately their undoing.

      Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess is a fantastic game and one of the highlights of the Zelda franchise. It is a game about hidden beauty, love and fighting for what you care about. To anyone who has disregarded this game, you may want to play it again, and this time enjoy it for what it truly is, and not what it is perceived to be.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by ich Will ().

    • I still consider the game a disappointment for a Zelda title. The story was weak and has plotholes that puts the Clone Saga to shame, most of the characters were unlikable, the gameplay was nothing special and it was way too easy, even by 3D Zelda standards.

      That's my opinion though.
      Jack-O' is love, Jack-O' is life

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Makuta Teridax ().

    • While I will be the first to admit that Twilight Princess is not a perfect Zelda game (are any of them really perfect?), I will also vehemently insist that the complaints with the game are far too commonly exaggerated -- and by exaggerated, I mean to the edge of the universe. It's ridiculous.

      I've watched many people (sometimes deliberately) brush aside or ignore the good things the game did while stretching the facts about the severity of the sour spots.

      I'm not sure if it's driven by an emotional response to unfulfilled over-hype, or if it's just bandwagon mob hatred (as we've seen characters like Tingle unfairly lambasted with), but it also happened to Wind Waker and Majora's Mask for a while. People are just over-the-top about this stuff. It's bonkers.

      The truth of the matter is: Twilight Princess didn't live up to every high standard of every game before it, but this is true of many other popular Zelda titles that we almost never see criticized for it. What it did do was meet the high standard of some of those past pinnacles and push them even further.

      Majora's Mask was once similarly criticized for it's shortcomings compared to past games while it's accomplishments went overlooked. It had fewer dungeons than Ocarina of Time, but it also set a new high bar for character development/interaction and the overall richness of it's world.

      For those who missed it, back in 2000, the angry mob didn't want to talk about anything but how 'game breakingly horrible the 3-Day system was', or how 'stupid the owl statue save mechanic was', or how 'lazy it is that they're just re-using the same character models', or how 'there's only like 4 dungeons, what a ripoff!' ... but now it's pretty much sitting on a shining throne in the Zelda fan community.

      And you know why? Because people took some time to really think about the game as a whole once they cooled down years later. Time and perspective led (mostly :P) everyone in that irrationally angry mob to start giving the game credit for it's brilliant bits instead of ballooning their complaints out of proportion to the point that the rage blinded them.

      Twilight Princess may need some more color, and it may not use it's items consistently throughout the whole game, et cetera, but there are plenty of good things to notice too, if you only take a breath and look again with a sense of appreciation rather than looking for things to hate. :tingle:
    • I agree that people were overly critical of this game. It seems like many fans wanted this game to be an updated OoT, which doesn't really make sense to me (I honestly don't think OoT was as great as a lot of people claim it is). I did not start playing LoZ games until 2003, my first game being Wind Waker. As such I never developed any preconceived notions of what the sequels should be like.

      I guess that helped me enjoy TP for what it was meant to be. I just wish people would understand that the uniqueness and stand alone nature of Zelda games essentially make it impossible to judge them against each other.
    • That's another odd thing about all the rage: Some people say it wasn't enough like OoT, while other people say it's too much of an OoT clone... So, which is it really?

      I think it has just enough uniqueness to be it's own entity while pleasantly evoking familiar elements from the past, as all Zeldas should and typically do. :3nod

      Not to mention... the standards by which it's being called an OoT clone would also mean that OoT is an ALttP clone, Wind Waker is an OoT clone, and so on. I really don't get this complaint. It seems to paint the basic skeleton of the series we all love as a bad thing, but it's only a bad thing in the case of this one game somehow and not a bad thing for the rest of the games. lol :P
    • I found the game to be... lacking in several ways. I enjoyed it while it lasts, but I didn't think it lived up to the Wind Waker or other previous main Zelda games. I'll sleep on it and then return and tell you why in better detail.

      That's another odd thing about all the rage: Some people say it wasn't enough like OoT, while other people say it's too much of an OoT clone... So, which is it really?

      Well, obviously those two messages come from different groups of people. It's not like they cancel each other out!

      I'm not sure if it's driven by an emotional response to unfulfilled over-hype, or if it's just bandwagon mob hatred (as we've seen characters like Tingle unfairly lambasted with), but it also happened to Wind Waker and Majora's Mask for a while. People are just over-the-top about this stuff. It's bonkers.


      I assure you, it's possible for someone to have legitimate reasons to be less than thrilled with the game. Don't make the mistake of dismissing it all as people jumping on the hate bandwagon or riding the wave of disappointment after unrealistic expectations (especially since the game is 8 years old now!).

      Though I'll give you the over-the-top thing. That comes with being in a passionate fandom.
    • Max Nichols wrote:

      Well, obviously those two messages come from different groups of people. It's not like they cancel each other out!


      Of course not. The confusion is that those are two totally opposite conclusions to have drawn about the same sphere of evidence, and I see them all the time just randomly about the net. It's weird.

      I assure you, it's possible for someone to have legitimate reasons to be less than thrilled with the game.


      Well, yes. And if you do have legitimate reasons to feel that way, then I wasn't describing you there. I am open to hearing your opinion. :) I also have gripes with TP, but I still enjoy it for it's (often overlooked, in my observational experience) merits.

      Don't make the mistake of dismissing it all as people jumping on the hate bandwagon or riding the wave of disappointment after unrealistic expectations (especially since the game is 8 years old now!).


      I promise you I don't dismiss it all (as stated above), but what I also don't dismiss is the very real element of bandwagonry that frequently peddles it's way through not just the gaming world, but the entire sphere of human society and it's history.

      Though I'll give you the over-the-top thing. That comes with being in a passionate fandom.


      Yes... :XD: sigh!

      Anyway, I'm sorry to have given off the wrong impression. My intention is not to broadbrush everyone with different opinions than mine, but to point out and comment on specific silly behaviors I have observed.

      'Oh, you're leaving...'

      The post was edited 3 times, last by RustyOwl ().

    • The first time I played through TP, I absolutely loved it. I really enjoyed the character development in Midna, the more mature Zelda (character, not meaning to imply the game itself was more mature than others), and the sword fighting techniques taught by the Hero's Shade. I thought, and still think, the take-out the bokoblins thing in Old Kakariko was one of the best things in any Zelda game ever. I did also fully appreciate the theme of fighting for what you think is beautiful and there being beauty in everything.

      Now, I've very recently done either a second or third playthrough (I honestly can't remember which. All of these things I mentioned, I still think the game does well. But I don't think it has a good replay value.

      Here are a few reasons why:

      Most of the characters aren't that exciting or engaging. Midna is great. I wish there was more Zelda so she could be better developed. Malo is creepy and all. But. Talo is just a typical village brat who doesn't do much but be a little kid and sometimes pick on people. Ilia has no personality besides horses and oh no my memory is gone. Ralis is decent but a fairly typical young royalty type character. So, I guess that's it. Everyone is so typical of the type of character they portray (apart from Malo), that I never came to really care about them. I don't want to keep replaying a game that has a primary goal of being able to destroy evil to kill a bunch of people I don't care about.

      A full half of the game is just plain tedious. Wolf Link is not well implemented, so it's kind of annoying to have to play as him. Don't get me wrong, it's not done terribly, but it could be a lot better. Plus, the Tears of Light fetch quests are boring, and I don't think I've met anyone who disagrees (yet). They could have done so much better to make it exciting. For example, I loved the Silent Realm in SS. While I generally like the later dungeons, it's hard to convince myself that I really want to go through all three of those to do dungeons that are good, but not even my favorite in the series.

      Then, there are the visuals. Don't get me wrong, I like the art direction for every Zelda game, generally speaking. I'm not opposed to a darker, more realistic (although still not realistic) art style. The problem is, it can be kind of hard to see because of the darkness of this game. I had to turn both the brightness and the contrast way up to really be able to see at all in the twilight colored Hyrule. The only place I had no trouble seeing at all was Lake Hylia (which is gorgeous). The amount I had to put the brightness and contrast up made other things, like movies, look bad. It was just frustrating. (Weird thing, I don't remember this happening when I used it on my old tv, but every time I play on an hd tv, I have this problem).

      I also must admit, at times it felt like they were trying to force this being a "mature" Zelda title, too. Which may very well be because they were trying to appeal to the audience that was upset over Wind Waker.

      Now, don't get me wrong. I do like TP. I like all Zelda games I've played. But to claim that anyone who has problems with it is misunderstanding it is a little silly. It's a good game on another playthrough. It was a great game the first time through. I just don't think its replay value is as good as other titles in the series.
    • RustyOwl wrote:

      And you know why? Because people took some time to really think about the game as a whole once they cooled down years later. Time and perspective led (mostly :P) everyone in that irrationally angry mob to start giving the game credit for it's brilliant bits instead of ballooning their complaints out of proportion to the point that the rage blinded them.

      Twilight Princess may need some more color, and it may not use it's items consistently throughout the whole game, et cetera, but there are plenty of good things to notice too, if you only take a breath and look again with a sense of appreciation rather than looking for things to hate. :tingle:


      Assuming Ocarina of Time as a baseline (and when don't we) Twilight Princess is literally darker. A darker tone, cutscenes, and muted color palette contribute to this. The dark interlopers scene and Ganondorf's death in particular probably earned the T rating with how disturbing they were.

      I'm not going to say it's genuinely dark, no one dies and stays dead or suffers a horrible fate. Just as Orchestra Piece 1 in the soundtrack, TP quickly transitions from a dark opening into an adventurous pace. The graphics were updated to look more realistic and made to be a little darker than Ocarina of Time. It doesn't need more color, it just uses darker shades than OoT's more basic color palette. To put the graphics into context, the art direction leaves TP looking better than many games being released on next generation consoles (Titanfall, Wolfenstein, etc).

      Here's how Twilight Princess relates to Ocarina of Time: It operates on the exact same template; dungeon structure, general plot structure, etc, only updated. The story is told better, the items are more complex, the puzzles have added depth, the combat is more satisfying & a little easier, and Epona is faster in a larger world with fast-paced horseback combat to fill the gaps.

      I think it's basically a flat improvement. Everything is upgraded substantially from Ocarina of Time (who's mechanics [combat, items, & puzzles] have not escaped the test of time, even if the graphics are fine). The only thing that didn't make the cut is the wolf, which, at its worst, wasn't as good as the Majora's Mask forms.

      That's the thing, though, at its worst, the wolf form and the tears of light, Twilight Princess only ever falls to "good", 8/10, because all Zelda games, even Skyward Sword (7/10), are good. It's nothing compared to the 'google breaks' I had to take when sailing in the Wind Waker (not to say I don't love WW). On replayability, I'd rather have 50 different tears of light sections than have to explore the Great Sea again for all of the side quests. The tears of light quests were slightly repetitive, but fresh because each had interesting scripted events (house blowing up, bug mini-boss) and new areas to explore for the first time.

      And focusing on the few flaws overlooks a truly epic, expansive game with savage combat, tough puzzles, a handcrafted story & plot, and a beautiful, interconnected world. Twilight Princess is my favorite Zelda and one of many masterworks in the series.
    • Haru17 wrote:

      Assuming Ocarina of Time as a baseline (and when don't we) Twilight Princess is literally darker. A darker tone, cutscenes, and muted color palette contribute to this. The dark interlopers scene and Ganondorf's death in particular probably earned the T rating with how disturbing they were.

      I'm not going to say it's genuinely dark, no one dies and stays dead or suffers a horrible fate. Just as Orchestra Piece 1 in the soundtrack, TP quickly transitions from a dark opening into an adventurous pace. The graphics were updated to look more realistic and made to be a little darker than Ocarina of Time. It doesn't need more color, it just uses darker shades than OoT's more basic color palette. To put the graphics into context, the art direction leaves TP looking better than many games being released on next generation consoles (Titanfall, Wolfenstein, etc).
      Hm...I think the dead hand is creepier and "darker" than anything in TP, including the trippy interlopers scene. Same with the majority of Beneath the Well and most of the Shadow Temple. And, in the original OoT, Ganondorf even coughed up blood. Maybe it's just me, but literal darkness aside, I thought OoT had some much darker themes and was more disturbing in a lot of ways.

      I also disagree with your points about the darker color palette not being a weak point because it does make it harder to see. I'm not saying that places like Lake Hylia aren't gorgeous, but when it was in twilight, it was hard to see what spots actually had land to jump to and which you'd be jumping into water, for example. On top of this, I don't know where you're getting that these graphics look better than those released on consoles of the next generation. It already looked dated when it came out because the textures were so muddy. I'd argue, of all the Zelda games, it's most in need of an HD remake because of how bad it looks. Apart from the fact that I have the Wii version, so the controls are shakey at best, this was probably the biggest thing that detracted from my enjoyment of the game.

      Here's how Twilight Princess relates to Ocarina of Time: It operates on the exact same template; dungeon structure, general plot structure, etc, only updated. The story is told better, the items are more complex, the puzzles have added depth, the combat is more satisfying & a little easier, and Epona is faster in a larger world with fast-paced horseback combat to fill the gaps.
      I think the story is told more, though not necessarily better. The stories are very different and I think both stories are told very successfully, but TP does have a more in-depth story. I like in depth, so that's a good thing, but I don't know if I agree that the story was told better, just that the story was more detailed and different.

      I agree that Epona's controls and the combat on her were excellent and huge improvements on OoT. You'd probably be hard-pressed to find someone who disagrees because this is basically fact.

      My biggest disagreement comes from the combat being more satisfying because of your next point that it's easier. I found the combat pretty unsatisfying in general because the combat was so easy (especially the bosses, I was hugely disappointed). I do like the sword skills a lot, though. Mortal draw and jump strike are fun. Shield attacks, at least on the Wii version, are a pain in the butt, though.

      I think it's basically a flat improvement. Everything is upgraded substantially from Ocarina of Time (who's mechanics [combat, items, & puzzles] have not escaped the test of time, even if the graphics are fine). The only thing that didn't make the cut is the wolf, which, at its worst, wasn't as good as the Majora's Mask forms.
      Hm...I guess I disagree. Now, don't get me wrong, I do think the game is good. I think Epona is improved, I think Midna is great, and I think the story has a lot more depth. I actually still really like all the items in OoT and don't see how TP's items have stood the test of time any better, with the possible exception of dual wielding clawshots. Actually, a lot of the items are the same. I liked messing around on the spinner, but I also think it was kind of a silly item for a Zelda game. That's the only item that's substantially different from OoT, though. The puzzles in OoT are still good, even if you've been doing them for so long they're not hard anymore. I didn't honestly think TP puzzles were an improvement from OoT.

      Combat is generally improved. I'll agree there. It's also easier, though. Which is kind of ridiculous considering OoT combat was pretty easy to begin with. I also think you've giving the wolf too much credit by saying at its worst it's not as good as the masks because in a lot of ways the masks were improved forms of Link. SUre, there was give and take for item usage, but it was in exchange for truly cool powers. What do we have with the wolf? Truly awkward combat, lost abilities and usage of weapons, annoying, required fetch quests, and Midna's creepy laugh to jump places. I guess you can use his senses, but that's not much. I think that the best that can be said of the wolf form is that it's workable and, once you can transform freely, it's not so annoying.

      I think part of what makes OoT better for me, though, is the dungeons. I think That TP has good dungeons, but not great. None of them really stand out in my mind the way the Forest Temple and Spirit Temple of OoT or Stone Tower in MM or Ancient Cistern in SS.

      That's the thing, though, at its worst, the wolf form and the tears of light, Twilight Princess only ever falls to "good", 8/10, because all Zelda games, even Skyward Sword (7/10), are good. It's nothing compared to the 'google breaks' I had to take when sailing in the Wind Waker (not to say I don't love WW). On replayability, I'd rather have 50 different tears of light sections than have to explore the Great Sea again for all of the side quests. The tears of light quests were slightly repetitive, but fresh because each had interesting scripted events (house blowing up, bug mini-boss) and new areas to explore for the first time.
      Huh. I found the tears of light to be far more repetitive and boring than the Great Sea (probably partially because I waited on those sidequests until I could teleport, though, to be fair). If I were judging the game based on the wolf form and tears of light, I would probably give it 4/10. Not the worst I've ever played, but not something I actually want to play at all. I do think the game gets better, but the tears of light quests don't hold any sense of urgency (apart from the one scene getting out of the burning house). There's no sense of danger, it's harder to see what's going on, and it's time consuming for no reason. And you can't really, truly explore the new regions because a huge part of exploration in the 3d Zelda games is talking with NPCs, which you can't do because they don't know you exist. If I didn't already know how much I loved Zelda games, I probably would never have been motivated to get past the first half of the game because of this. I give the game on a whole 7.5/10, but those parts were truthfully low quality.

      Also, I didn't find it to have low replay value just because of the tears of light, which I already expanded on in my previous post.

      ALSO, I recognize that exploring the Great Sea can be very tedious and whether you enjoy that more or the tears of light is a matter of personal preference. I personally prefer the Great Sea, but I admit that's a real and serious weak point of WW. It's just that the tears of light are also a real and serious weak point of TP and one that I personally enjoy less.

      And focusing on the few flaws overlooks a truly epic, expansive game with savage combat, tough puzzles, a handcrafted story & plot, and a beautiful, interconnected world. Twilight Princess is my favorite Zelda and one of many masterworks in the series.
      Ugh. Okay. So I want to apologize here because even as I've been writing this response, I've felt weird for dogging on TP so much, because I do think it's a great game. It's just also that I believe it's one of the worse Zelda games, which is okay because I think all Zelda games are at least pretty good. I agree that it's one of the many masterpieces of the franchise, far above average in game quality. It does a lot of things right, but I think a lot of things are also pretty lackluster (characters other than Midna, particularly, boring fetch quests, etc.). I think the combat can be fun and love some of the sword skills, but the easiness of the combat did seriously detract from it, in my opinion. The story is more expansive than a lot of the previous games, which I think is great. Some of the puzzles are pretty good and I don't remember thinking any dungeon was boring, even if I didn't think any of them were amazing, either. I think the game is very good.

      I also usually don't complain about TP (or any Zelda game) frequently, but I responded to you because your first post made it sound very much like you thought anyone who had complaints about TP just didn't understand it or were flat wrong, which simply isn't true.
    • I think what hurts its replayability the most is the intro section. It's just WAY too long. And not only that, but you don't really get the freedom to explore the world at your own pace until much later on. I have tried to replay the game two or three times now and I always get bored of it within the first hour because of how damn slow the intro is. Unless they do a remake that fixes my issue with the first half or so of the game, I don't think I will ever be able to replay it, and it's a shame because I do like some of the dungeons a lot, as well as the combat.
    • YoMaNaTiOn wrote:

      I think what hurts its replayability the most is the intro section. It's just WAY too long. And not only that, but you don't really get the freedom to explore the world at your own pace until much later on. I have tried to replay the game two or three times now and I always get bored of it within the first hour because of how damn slow the intro is. Unless they do a remake that fixes my issue with the first half or so of the game, I don't think I will ever be able to replay it, and it's a shame because I do like some of the dungeons a lot, as well as the combat.


      I enjoyed the setpieces and beginning story missions. Finding the fish to get the cat to return home was clever and the hawk was a cool thing to show. I've not played TP twice through in a row and that's where I would imagine it'd get annoying. The Wind Waker did this too, although much more obnoxiously, in not letting you sail freely until you beat the Forbidden Woods dungeon for seemingly no reason.
    • Haru17 wrote:

      I enjoyed the setpieces and beginning story missions. Finding the fish to get the cat to return home was clever and the hawk was a cool thing to show. I've not played TP twice through in a row and that's where I would imagine it'd get annoying. The Wind Waker did this too, although much more obnoxiously, in not letting you sail freely until you beat the Forbidden Woods dungeon for seemingly no reason.
      I don't know how not sailing freely until you finish the Forbidden Forest is worse than not wandering freely until finishing three sets of monotonous fetch quests. I'd rather not wander freely until I've done three dungeons (with little boring filler in between) than having to spend the hours on that. I hear people complain about the linearity of SS (which it is, I'm not arguing that), but I found the linearity in TP to feel much more confining and frustrating. The linearity of the first few dungeons in WW was something I barely even noticed because the first time I was just playing it to learn about the game and all the other times I've played it I've been so excited to get the Deku Leaf that I still barely notice.

      There are a lot of things TP does right, but making the first half exciting and engaging isn't one of them.

      I have no problem with the whole catching the cat/slingshot sequence. I think saving Talo serves its purpose, but Ilia is crazy.
    • mosstheinflatablecow wrote:

      I don't know how not sailing freely until you finish the Forbidden Forest is worse than not wandering freely until finishing three sets of monotonous fetch quests. I'd rather not wander freely until I've done three dungeons (with little boring filler in between) than having to spend the hours on that. I hear people complain about the linearity of SS (which it is, I'm not arguing that), but I found the linearity in TP to feel much more confining and frustrating. The linearity of the first few dungeons in WW was something I barely even noticed because the first time I was just playing it to learn about the game and all the other times I've played it I've been so excited to get the Deku Leaf that I still barely notice.

      There are a lot of things TP does right, but making the first half exciting and engaging isn't one of them.

      I have no problem with the whole catching the cat/slingshot sequence. I think saving Talo serves its purpose, but Ilia is crazy.


      I don't understand the criticism of the tears of light sections; all-together they only lasted about 2 hours, and that was broken up by many other set pieces, dungeons, and times for exploration.

      Wind Waker had a lot less to do in between the first 2 dungeons, at least it felt like that with all the featureless ocean in-between them.

      Twilight Princess has a progression system similar to most open world games; you start off in a smaller area that opens up with each main story quest. You could explore and find secrets with the boomerang and bow before going to the next dungeon, so I don't see the problem.

      There were so many hidden rocks and heart pieces to explore when you got the arrow and bombs, which was about 3-4 hours in for me. With the bomb arrows and goron mines as highlights, Eldin province is one of the strongest sections of any Zelda game for me.

      If anything was lacking it would be the lack of secrets in the overworld that require the spinner, ball & chain, and double clawshot between the later dungeons. It felt there were fewer secrets after the first several dungeons.
      TLOZ: Bacronym it!

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Haru17 ().

    • I felt this game was ok. Lacking in a few major spots, but definitely acceptable. There were several ideas created by previous titles that TP improved/modified. Like Epona, dungeon design and collectibles. Overall the Poes, minigames, bugs and Heart Pieces made for a pretty interesting game inbetween dungeons, when otherwise it would fall flat. The character progression is quite good and the story is told well cinematically. Backstory moments, Cart Escort sequence, after-dungeon cutscenes and the King Bulbin parts worked like this.
      The issue is it wants to be cinematic all the time. As a result, the intro becomes excessively lengthy and tutorial-filled, and small little tasks that slightly progress the story become delivered as epic sidequests. It was ridiculous.
      It was incredibly linear too. Every dungeon had a purpose storywise and didn't seem like they were thrown in for the heck of it (I'm looking at you, Fire Sanctuary) for one, on the other hand you were thrown into the longest "first-3-dungeons-intro-sequence" ever and it was really tedious.
      It wouldn't be that tedious if the wolf form had more functionality. It's been said before, and I agree. When this gimmick was first announced I imagined TP would be half wolf time, half human, and they'd make being a canine as enjoyable as Hylian Link. You could certainly design more puzzles and dungeons around the necessity to switch between forms. Maybe there should have been a wolf-only dungeon. I dunno, the whole concept seemed great, but it was a severe letdown in the end.
      The game also reused too many old ideas, as if for safety and fanservice.

      Other than these complaints, Twilight Princess did very well. It managed to step up its game from the previous titles in many areas, and it sure is a welcome addition to the series and timeline.
      Also has some of the best end credits I've ever seen.
    • Haru17 wrote:

      I don't understand the criticism of the tears of light sections; all-together they only lasted about 2 hours, and that was broken up by many other set pieces, dungeons, and times for exploration.

      Wind Waker had a lot less to do in between the first 2 dungeons, at least it felt like that with all the featureless ocean in-between them.

      Twilight Princess has a progression system similar to most open world games; you start off in a smaller area that opens up with each main story quest. You could explore and find secrets with the boomerang and bow before going to the next dungeon, so I don't see the problem.

      There were so many hidden rocks and heart pieces to explore when you got the arrow and bombs, which was about 3-4 hours in for me. With the bomb arrows and goron mines as highlights, Eldin province is one of the strongest sections of any Zelda game for me.

      If anything was lacking it would be the lack of secrets in the overworld that require the spinner, ball & chain, and double clawshot between the later dungeons. It felt there were fewer secrets after the first several dungeons.

      The problem with Tears of Light is it took up a good third of the first half of the game. And that's a heck of a lot more than the maybe 15 minutes total sailing in WW between dungeons in that first sequence of dungeons. Then, you say you can explore, but there's next to nothing to explore at that point in the game as, first of all, most things in that game are in Lanayru, and second of all, you don't have the items necessary to explore areas that aren't. So, while it opened up bit by bit like a lot of games do (which still creates linearity, by the way, whether you think that's good or bad is a different story), it forces focus away from exploring and discovery because of other restrictions. In my opinion linearity isn't necessarily bad, but in TP it felt more forceful and restrictive than in many other games in the series to me. If there was any sense of urgency or danger in the tears of light sequences, they would be fine. Instead they feel like an unecessarily tedious chore. Sailing for 15minutes doesn't feel that way nearly as much.
    • mosstheinflatablecow wrote:

      The problem with Tears of Light is it took up a good third of the first half of the game. And that's a heck of a lot more than the maybe 15 minutes total sailing in WW between dungeons in that first sequence of dungeons. Then, you say you can explore, but there's next to nothing to explore at that point in the game as, first of all, most things in that game are in Lanayru, and second of all, you don't have the items necessary to explore areas that aren't. So, while it opened up bit by bit like a lot of games do (which still creates linearity, by the way, whether you think that's good or bad is a different story), it forces focus away from exploring and discovery because of other restrictions. In my opinion linearity isn't necessarily bad, but in TP it felt more forceful and restrictive than in many other games in the series to me. If there was any sense of urgency or danger in the tears of light sequences, they would be fine. Instead they feel like an unecessarily tedious chore. Sailing for 15minutes doesn't feel that way nearly as much.


      There's literally nothing to do while sailing. Sure you can find treasure, platforms, and islands, but between them there's nothing, blank space. Sailing wastes much more time in Wind Waker than the tears of light sections, 15 minutes adds up pretty fast.

      Furthermore the tears of light sections have combat, exploration, and puzzle solving. You type like they're terrible sins against gaming, but they're not. They're just slightly less interesting parts of TP that you finish and then enjoy the rest of the game.
    • Haru17 wrote:

      There's literally nothing to do while sailing. Sure you can find treasure, platforms, and islands, but between them there's nothing, blank space. Sailing wastes much more time in Wind Waker than the tears of light sections, 15 minutes adds up pretty fast.

      Furthermore the tears of light sections have combat, exploration, and puzzle solving. You type like they're terrible sins against gaming, but they're not. They're just slightly less interesting parts of TP that you finish and then enjoy the rest of the game.
      Well there is combat while sailing in WW, plus the added bonus of island exploration. I never said that the tears of light are horrible sins against gaming. I said I'd give those parts of the game a 4/10, which is hardly a horrible sin, it's just mediocre. My primary point, though, is that they significantly reduce replay value for me, and I'm not alone in that. In fact, I'm not even the only one on this thread who has said so.

      And, for the record, I don't think the sailing is great, but I do enjoy it more than those parts of TP.

      I feel like, generally speaking, we've digressed far from the original conversation, though. I stand by what I was originally saying, which is that TP is a very good game, but that I think, relative to other Zeldas, it has low replay value. The tears of light certainly contribute to that, but I wouldn't even say it's the biggest factor in me feeling that way. I'll repeat that I don't think the tears of light are the worst thing ever, I just think they were a large contributing factor towards the game having a very slow start, which feels slower on replays.